vinyasa means...

[Guest guest]

Guruji has said countless times "vinyasa means

breathing system." Then he has gone on to elucidate the

specifics of this breathing system.<br>It is an ongoing

regret for missy pinky that misguided pompous types

continue to mislead with such presumption and

bravado.<br>I have studied with nearly every certified ashtanga

teacher in Europe and the USA in addtion to making six

trips to study with Guruji and Sharat. Every one of

these teachers will tell you that vinyasa means

breathing system. It is not simply a reference to certain

movements between asanas. Rather it is the foundation of

each and every movement in the entire system.<br>To

practise according to this method is the only approach to

asana practice. To leave out vinyasas is actually to

invite injury because these sequences of poses are not

possible without it. Also yoga shastras say that asana

without vinyasa is not asana.<br>The nectar of this

method is vinyasa, leave em out and oops, there goes

baby with the bathwater!!<br>try 'em (vinyasas that

is) m.p.<br><br>p.s. Have you read your Yoga Mala

lately? Or you'd rather just make it all up? If you do

want to make up your own system go ahead, call it what

you'd like to and then start your own message board and

party on!

[Guest guest]

Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon <br>New Search

<br><br><br>--\

------------<br>Entry vinyAsa<br> <br>Meaning m. putting or placing

down &c. ; a deposit W. ; putting on (ornaments)

Ka1vya7d. ; movement , position (of limbs) , attitude

TPra1t. Ka1v. ; arrangement , disposition , order Pur. ;

scattering , spreading out MBh. Hariv. ; establishment ,

foundation Ma1rkP. ; putting together , connecting (words

&c.) , composition (of literary works) Va1s. Sa1h. &c.

; exhibition , display (ifc. = showing ,

displaying) MBh. ; the utterance of words of despair Sa1h. ;

assemblage , collection W. ; any site or receptacle on or in

which anything is deposited ib. ; %{-rekhA} f. a line

drawn Ba1lar.<br><br>-- <br><br>Guruji not speak

English so good, sometimes not tell words exact meaning

to Western student lady. <br><br>IMO and that of

Freeman, Vinyasa has a closer meaning to "sequence" (of

yoga postures) than to "breathing system."<br><br>Good

luck with the 3 hour headstands, you Yoga Mala

devotee!

[Guest guest]

Why try to distinguish whether it means movement

or breathing? It's a moot point, the way I see it:

when you're practicing ashtanga, movement and breath

are unified. The term suggests both, together, to me.

[Guest guest]

Trayam - your sanskrit definition seemed very

vague indeed - how'd you figure out from that text that

vinyasa meant jumping back after both sides? And then

from there you went onto infer that half vinyasa meant

something else?<br>Seems to me the Guru's explanation of

the system he's studied for 75 years is more

complete. Gurujii holds advanced degrees in sanskrit and

can quote vedas, shastras, upanishads and puranas at

length by memory. You looked up a word in roman alphabet

in an english language sanskrit dictionary. Gee -

who might know a lot more about the subject than you?

But your posts have always showed off your pride and

arrogance. So I guess here is one more for the

record.<br>Thanks for sharing - ya big bad lug!<br>m.p.<br><br>p.s.

how's your devanagiri coming?<br><br>p.p.s. missy pinky

can touch her elbows to the floor in uttanasana and

her legs are long and shapely!

[Guest guest]

missy pinky with the long and shapely legs, ample bosom and superior

flexibility. I think I'm smitten.

[Guest guest]

missy, you touch on an important point--the

limitations that we have using our current language to

accurately understand ancient texts or lessons. it is a

dilemma that plagues those trying to interpret not just

sanskrit verses like the sutras but the bible, koran,

talmud--you name it. <br>i was struck, when i read through

desikachar's book, how it often took so many paragraphs and

pages to interpret each sutra, many of which consisted

of 15 to 20 words. <br>the word gods here--editors,

writers, professors and especially linguists--will all

know the hazards and inaccuracies of relying on

current terms to convey the meaning of an ancient

language. <br>so how do we KNOW what pantanjali meant? use

a consensus of scholars' interpretations? trust the

system of handing down the meaning from one teacher to

his apprentice? don't know. i'm not that well read

yet to know whether there are controversies about the

meaning of different sutras or not. how to you more

advanced yogis chose to interpret?

[Guest guest]

Sorry, but your insults aside, "vinyasa" still

doesn't translate exactly to "breathing system." Rather,

"vinyasa" is a general term for "sequence," as you can see

from the posted definition.<br><br>Sanskrit isn't a

precise language, and many of its words are suggestive

rather than definitive. <br><br>Guruji's English

obviously isn't quite good enough to render explanations of

such subtle distinctions and diverse meanings, as it

seems he prefers to give the most simple explanations

to his Western students.<br><br>Some of whom, had

they been born a bit earlier, might be found handing

out flowers in Internation airports.

[Guest guest]

me too!

[Guest guest]

The dispute between Trayam and Missy Pinky

appears to be an artifact of the different meanings of

"meaning."<br><br>One sense of "meaning" is lexical. The definition

given in a lexicon attempts to make the term in

question understandable to a wide audience, more or less

independently of their differing world-views or particular

experiences.<br><br>However, the way some yoga teachers translate Sanskrit

terms indicates to me that they aim at some sort of

"internal" significance of the term, or more precisely an

interpretation of that term within their particular system of

thought. I think that may be what's going on with Patahbi

Jois on the term "vinyasa." If in fact we practice

vinyasa partly in order to represent and actualize the

flow of prana in the body (see David Swenson's

discussion of vinyasa in his book), and if we associate

prana with breath (in the same way we link the vinyasa

physically with the breath, for after all breath is one of

prana's particular manifestations) then it is reasonable

to translate vinyasa as "breathing system" providing

we and the folks we are speaking to understand

ourselves to be working within the framework of ashtanga

yoga. If we/they were not, then such a traslation would

be misleading.<br><br>Keeping in mind the

distinction between lexical and internal meanings of terms

may help us both to maintain goodwill and to avoid

yoga fundamentalism.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

.... in fact it is not only reasonable but even beautiful to transate "vinyasa"

--in the internal sense -- as "breathing system." The more I think about it the

more I like it.

[Guest guest]

nicely put homer. would that i could speak/write with such insight and clarity

[Guest guest]

Heard that one before. Who was it that said, "It

depends on what the meaning of 'is' is". Sheeshh. Don't

you all have something better to do than debate about

how many angels can sit on the head of a pin. Get

over it. It DOESN'T matter !!

[Guest guest]

54862...but only if they're slow-dancing.

[Guest guest]

<<Sheeshh. Don't you all have something

better to do than debate about how many angels can sit

on the head of a pin. Get over it. It DOESN'T matter

!!>><br><br>I didn't think we were debating about angels on

pins. (Actually that debate made a lot of sense in its

medieval scholastic context: the issue was whether

spiritual beings were capable of occupying points in

physical space. Too bad it's become the exemplar of a

useless discussion.)<br><br>Could you elaborate on your

objection to the vinyasa discussion? I thought we were

learning sorta cool and useful stuff.<br><br>Homer

[Guest guest]

I guess my take on the true meaning of "vinyasa"

was really a side issue in this debate. Or at least

it started out that way...however, now everything

seems to have come full circle.<br><br>My main issue

was really this:<br><br>I took<br>exception to (what

I took to be) M.P's "no-modification" position on

vinyasa ...er..jumpthroughs....whatever term you want to

us. <br><br>I believe that unless the beginning yogi

has exception stamina and flexibility, trying to

power through all the vinyasa of the 1st series --

irrespective of fatigue or heat -- just doesn't seem a good

idea to me. From my own experience, creating excess

fatigue in vinyasa is<br>like begging for yoga injuries.

<br><br>That pov, I believe, should be balanced with M.P's

advice (if I may so phrase it), to push further into the

practice, and to recognize that vinyasa is essential to

practicing this yoga.<br><br>Given all that, I like D's

description of "vinyasa" very much -- a term for the grace

and generosity of the complete practice. Something I

fail at regularly.

[Guest guest]

yeah----I think somewhere along the way MP

erroneously assumed you were dissing the whole concept of

vinyasa. Of course, vinyasa is one of the things that

distinguishes Ashtanga from other forms of yoga and makes it so

full of grace and so much fun to practice.<br><br>How

can we reconcile our love and enthusiasm for ashtanga

yoga with the fact that hundreds of thousands of

people have been helped and healed by other forms of

yoga, including those without vinyasa? Why is there a

human need for judgement, segregation, rigidity? Is

that what helps preserve a tradition? Can't we hold

true to our own beliefs and practices and allow others

to do do the same with theirs?