The path you choose is good for you

[Guest guest]

You dont seem to understand two things:<br><br>1:

The very first step of Ashtanga Yoga is non-violence

- that means vegetarianism.<br><br>2. From many

years of experience it has been found that

vegetarianism significantly improves the practice of yoga and

consequently mental and physical health.<br><br>I dont think

there is any point making people feel guilty about what

they are doing, as this often makes them more attached

and defensive about their behaviour.<br><br>If you

choose the path of yoga - vegetarianism is appropriate.

If you choose some other path, meat eating may be

appropriate. That is freedom. But if you put an oppinion on

the site, you can only expect it to be criticized if

someone does not agree.

[Guest guest]

Okay.<br><br>My point being, if one was to take

all the energy one expended trying to convert and

convince people of something, and turned it inward,

wouldn't we all be better off?<br><br>Secondly,

'enlightenment' comes slowly (or someone has been keeping things

from me...:)and perhaps those who are not veg will be

led there by way of Ashtanga, and it's not anyone's

place to judge the pace at which they accomplish

this.<br><br>You sound offended, and that was not my

purpose,<br><br>Namaste<br>Benzozia

[Guest guest]

"first step of Ashtanga Yoga is non-violence -

that means vegetarianism."<br><br>Since I have been

studying yoga I did not realize that non-violence equals

vegetarianism... I always took non-violence to mean not beating

your spouse, not buying into 'eye for an eye', not

riding on the front of a train randomly blowing away

innocent buffalo, not lining up snails and systematically

crushing them with your tricycle, not raising a chicken in

a box,.... etc and much more...<br>so now I find

out that I can beat the shit out of my friend and I

am practicing non-violent behavior as long as I kill

plants... cool! I am sorry, but in my opinion, there are

degrees to non-violence. Someone who eats meat may just

as well be practicing ahimsa as the vegetarian.

There are more factors than just meat or no meat.

Ahimsa to me is reflected in our attitudes and our

hearts. By studying our lives, our friends, our enemies,

our natural surroundings… we can learn more about

them and therefore better appreciate them. When you

have a greater sense of yourselves and others, and a

greater appreciation for them, I believe that you in turn

will be kinder and gentler toward them.<br>If I am

walking across an African Plain and a lion eats me, in

most cases I would say that it is not being violent. I

would say the lion is living. Sure humans can make

choices, but at the same time, I still believe that humans

are not necessarily violent just because they eat

meat… even if it is not free-range, home grown/raised

meat.<br><br>“If you choose the path of yoga - vegetarianism is

appropriate. If you choose some other path, meat eating may be

appropriate. That is freedom. But if you put an oppinion on

the site, you can only expect it to be criticized if

someone does not agree.”<br><br>What I sometimes hate

about this site is how instead of stating opinions and

offering insights… all too often it seems that people are

trying to show how their way is better and put down

other ways… just doesn’t seem too yogic in my opinion.

[Guest guest]

namaste Randy~<br><br>I recently quit this club

because it seemed to become counter productive to my

yoga, much like watching television. I'm very glad to

know there are still some people out there that I can

relate to.<br>Thank you for the inspiring post. I

couldn't agree with you more.<br><br>Lisa

[Guest guest]

With all the passionate arguments happening

around here, isn't satya something to keep in mind? By

this, I don't mean that someone holding the opinion

that vegetarianism is an integral component of a yogic

lifestyle is not truthful. What I am suggesting is that

truth is a tricky subject, particularly because it can

be a wholly subjective thing -- we all have our

particular biases. Where the harm enters into this is in

becoming attached to our "truths," and especially in

trying to relentlessly convert everyone else to your way

of seeing the truth. Doesn't this constitute a

subtle form of doing harm? Just a thought...

[Guest guest]

I know this is an old, worn, and dumb discussion

but:<br><br>1. Not everyone benefits from a vegetarian

lifestyle! Some people feel better mentally and physically

with a more liberal lifestyle and habits.<br><br>2. If

you were living somewhere like rural Nunuvit (a

province in northern Canada) you'd probably starve without

fish and dried meat because vegetables don't grow well

in ice and snow. Starving is harmful to yourself and

the family who watches you wither away. If you

decided that you must ship in Chiquita bananas and

avocados from Costa Rica, that is harmful to the

environment. Should Inuit people refrain from practicing

ashtanga because they are not able to follow the "first

step" of ashtanga unless they move to a warmer

place?<br><br>3. Not all Jews have to be kosher and not all

ashtangis have to be vegetarians.<br><br>4. China is in my

top 5 "to do before I die" list and unless I rent an

apartment there, I have no illusions that it can be done as

a pure vegetarian! I'll be willing to eat eels and

insects there.

[Guest guest]

These recurring discussions remind me of

philosophy classes in college, which seemed to be mostly

about defining terms than anything else. Here's how I

see it:<br><br>What are the necessary conditions for

a practice to be Ashtanga Yoga as taught by Sri K.

Pattabhi Jois (which, as I understand it, is consistent

with but not identical to Ashtanga Yoga as taught by

B.N.S. Iyengar and which is consistent with but may or

may not be identical to Ashtanga Yoga as once taught

by Patanjali)?<br><br>These conditions apparently

include (but are not limited to) practicing a very

specific sequence of asanas and vegetarianism. So if I do

not meet these conditions then I am not practicing

Ashtanga Yoga as taught by Sri K. Pattabhi

Jois.<br><br>Well, I add several prep poses to my asana practice,

thus breaking the sequence. And I eat meat. So I guess

I don't pratice Ashtanga Yoga as taught by Sri K.

Pattabhi Jois. And that's perfectly fine.<br><br>But my

path overlaps with Ashtanga Yoga as taught by Sri K.

Pattabhi Jois. My path includes practicing a sequence of

asanas (including bandhas, ujjayi breathing, drishti,

etc) almost identical to that taught by Pattabhi Jois.

My yoga practice is derived from, but not identical

to, that taught by Pattabhi Jois. My path also

includes vipassana meditation in the styles of U Ba Kin

and Mahasi Sayadaw. It also includes some of the

ethical principles of the Stoic philosophers Epictetus

and Marcus Aurelius. It also occasionaly includes 16

year old single malt scotch (Lagavulin -

yum)!<br><br>Someday the course of my path may change. It may even

become totally consistent with Ashtanga Yoga as taught

by Sri K. Pattabhi Jois. In the meantime I am

grateful to hardcore devotes like Guy and Missy for being

explicit and forthcoming on just what that involves.

[Guest guest]

I apologise, esp. to Guy, for being argumentative

(maybe I'm a wannabe lawyer as well as a wannabe

ashtangi!). I'm too contrary for my own good. Anyway, Guy's

point about the root of the disagreement lying in "what

are the benefits of yoga" is well-made and true. Some

of us have been drawn to yoga for reasons we don't

even think about or intelectualize. Many of the

reasons are palpable: better health, mental peace, and a

firmer form. But for many of us, the reasons include

something intangible and ineffable. These, I believe, are

some of the more genuine, enduring, sublime reasons

for the practice, which some of you have pointed

out.<br><br>SO...gorakshadevi pointed out that not everyone "is qualified" to

do this practice. Patanjalini mentioned that even as

a trend, it serves a purpose because not only is it

a healthy trend, but it may inevitably lead to a

genuine interest in the spiritual teachings inherent in

the practice. Who is right?<br><br>Can ashtanga yoga

be part of a "regular balanced spiritual growth

platter," even if the practitioner does not adhere to all

its precepts? Or does the practice of ashtanga yoga

preclude divergence at every point of the path, requiring

the practitioner to surrender totally? Can surrender

be wholly of the individual's heart and can this be

different from surrender to a set of rules?<br><br> peace

profound,<br>sun

[Guest guest]

sunny<br>why we do yoga?<br>does the puppet know

why it is dancing?<br><br>We have OUR ideas of why.

Initially, the reason why i kept going back to ashtanga yoga

class is because it kicked my ***. (Still does.)

[Guest guest]

"So...Gorakshadevi pointed out that not everyone

"is qualified" to do this practice. Patanjalini

mentioned that even as a trend, it serves a purpose because

not only is it a healthy trend, but it may inevitably

lead to a genuine interest in the spiritual teachings

inherent in the practice. Who is right?"<br><br>Sun,I

should add here that I think that no effort is ever

really wasted in yoga (any form of yoga). This is stated

in the Bhagavad Gita, only that results may be very

delayed (lifetimes)? So I agree on the value of planting

a seed for yogic samskaras. I think my point is

that, there are some qualities which need to be

present, like fearlessness and stability in order to see

much progress. Finally it is not always the case that

it will lead to genuine interest, often it only

serves as ego inhancement and stronger delusion, which

is not a healthy trend. I think examples of this

were abundant in many of the practitioners attending

the various locations during the recent US tour. G

[Guest guest]

You are a classy lady sunshine and I love your

posts. Even if I do not always agree with what you are

writing. That really goes to most that is posted here.

Obviously, this is a bunch of intelligent, well thought out,

passionate, and .... human group. Sometimes I wonder if we as

a species are too smart for our own good, by

analyzing and breaking down all the facts too much. Can

there be too much thinking? (That sounds a little like

a Zen riddle to me.) namaste.

[Guest guest]

<<Where the harm enters into this is in

becoming attached to our "truths," and especially in

trying to relentlessly convert everyone else to your way

of seeing the truth. Doesn't this constitute a

subtle form of doing harm?>><br><br>Good question:

I've been wondering about this sort of thing, too.

Gandhi maintained that satya and ahimsa are closely

linked. It's also interesting that, although he freqently

engaged in debate and polemic, past a certain point he

would drop the debate and act non-violently according

to his own conscience, detached from the results: he

would just let the chips fall where they might as far

as whether or not his opponents would be persuaded

or have their own conscience aroused by his actions.

His awareness was not dominated by the thought

"they're wrong, they're wrong" but rather by the question

"what must I now do?"<br><br>It's not so terrible that

we have these discussions, though, even if nobody

gets converted. Each of us can take what he or she has

said, hold it up like a mirror, and see themselves more

clearly than if their thoughts had not been voiced. If

you make an angry or insulting comment, then you can

really look at your own anger. For my part, I've had to

wonder why I have put so much effort into clarifying my

own point of view (back in the abortion debates --

I'm veggie too but I guess we pick our battles) and

analysing the opinions of others. Was the motive really to

shed light, or was it primarily a subtle form of

ego-aggrandizement?<br><br>Should we keep on discussing even if we have become

aware that our motives for doing so are mixed? (Or

practicing asanas, even if we value the ripped pecs as much

as the profound peace?) Maybe so, but with a

different focus.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer

[Guest guest]

Homer, such a nice post. And you have a new

mind-boggler for us:<br><br><<Should we keep on

discussing even if we have become aware that our motives for

doing so are mixed? (Or practicing asanas, even if we

value the ripped pecs as much as the profound peace?)

Maybe so, but with a different focus.>><br><br>I

think about this a lot! It's such an interesting train

of thought. I think just being aware of our motives

and laughing at them will eventually change us,

hopefully for the better.<br><br>Sunshine