My Biggest Apologies to Bandawoman!

[Guest guest]

bandawoman,<br><br>Sorry if I hurt you in my

message # 5357. You called me 'arrogant' in an earlier

post (# 5324), and I simply fired back. That was

stupid of me!<br><br>I quitted my membership of this

club after that, because I needed a brake (but it's

easy to rejoin if you remember your password). In the

last days I skipped through former messages and

learned that you, like many other people here, are

actually a big fan of David Swenson, that you attended

workshops with him and that you greatly enjoy his teaching

style. I realised how foolish it was of me to post in

capital letters that Swenson's book is a mess.<br><br>I

live in Germany, where, as everyone who ever checked

Betty Lai's ashtanga.com site knows, there are no

authorized and certified teachers anywhere. I am a

university student, therefore my budget is limited. I have

Internet access, but I don't have a VCR. So, if I want to

find out for myself what Ashtanga Yoga Mysore Style

actually means, and without the help by some uncertified

teacher, I am mainly dependent on American and British

books (and the Internet).<br><br>The first book on

Ashtanga Yoga I ever bought was Swenson's "Practice

Manual". I thought I had found the Ashtanga guide of my

life, but instead, as someone who, for now, exercises

on his own, I soon got disappointed. Swenson's

manual may be great to look at, funny to read, and

practical with its spiral binding (though too large to

carry about), but it leaves out lots of details, and

many important ones too. I guess it should be used

only in connection with Swenson's videos, but I don't

have them (no VCR, just said).<br><br>Then I got

Scott's new book. His instructions on Primary Series are

so detailed that I find his to be one of the most

useful yoga books I ever saw. No additional video

needed. And, surprise, his version of Primary looks

rather different from the Swenson one. Full vinyasa,

lots of handstands, Chakrasanas, more vinyasas:

Scott's Primary could keep you busy for the rest of your

life, no need really to rush on to Intermediate. All

the stuff approved by Guruji too (for those who

care).<br><br>David Swenson is surely a great Ashtanga Yoga teacher,

and I guess he is also one of the most popular yoga

teachers in America ( here in Germany he is still widely

unknown). It may just be, as someone posted here, that he

teaches a version of Ashtanga as he learned it in his

youth, and then he stuck with it, regardless of what K P

Jois currently teaches now. It may also be that in the

last twenty years or so a distinctively American

version of Ashtanga Yoga has established itself in

America, which follows its own traditions (but without

boiling Ashtanga down to "Power Yoga").<br><br>I greatly

admire Jois, and my interest is chiefly for Ashtanga

Yoga as taught by Guruji in Mysore today. Teaching

material approved by him is my first choice.<br><br>What

makes this discussion forum great is that it has as its

members very different people with very differing views

on what Ashanga should be about, ranging from the

orthodox to those who prefer to take it easy. For all its

shortcomings, let's keep this forum this way. No caste system

needed,really.<br><br>Funny that you called me "Mr. Skull". But that, of

course,is not my real name. "Shining skull" is the English

translation of Kapalabhati, a Pranayama technique. Check out

"Light on Pranayama" by BKS Iyengar, fyi.

[Guest guest]

Very nice post!!! I, and I am sure anybody else

who was confused by your "rantings" now have a much

better idea of where you are coming from!!<br><br>Best

of luck to you in your practice:)<br><br>PS- I may

be mistaken, but I believe that David Swenson

intends his "Practice Manual" to be used when you are

home alone, but also taking classes with a qualified

instructor- which is, I imagine, why he keeps his

'instructions' brief.

[Guest guest]

"Funny that you called me "Mr. Skull". But that,

of course,is not my real name. "Shining skull" is

the English translation of Kapalabhati, a Pranayama

technique. Check out "Light on Pranayama" by BKS Iyengar,

fyi." <br><br>Come on, can't we PLEASE keep calling you

Mr. Skull? (Bandawoman is not her real name either,

by the way).<br><br>But seriously, kudos to you

skull for sincerely trying to maintain a consistent

practice without a teacher- particularly as you're just

starting out. If it's any help, I too started ashtanga

(and iyengar style, too) as a poor, overworked

student. Without the daily classes (free) at my school's

gym, I'd be a complete basket case right now (and

still eating cows). I have only been able to maintain a

daily morning practice now after I had been doing

ashtanga in a class format for a number of years. I don't

think I'd have the fortitude and discipline to do it on

my own without those first learning steps with

others- even though I loved it so much. <br><br>Best of

luck- and to all those practicing alone out

there!<br><br>Also, I just took a look at Swenson's manual for the

first time last night. I then lent it to a friend who

is just starting out ashtanga to give her the basic

principles. Like everyone on this board has said, nothing

beats a teacher- no book, no video. The manual was

great as a refresher for me, and I thought the "landing

gear" idea was fabulous, but there's no way one can

fully experience ashtanga by reading a book.

[Guest guest]

I cannot imagine how hard it would be to develop

an Ashtanga practice without a teacher and outside

of a class setting, just from a book or video. It's

hard enough when you live in a place surrounded by

many excellent teachers and other very helpful

practitioners. Your dedication and fortitude are to be

commended.<br>Mr Swenson's book is indeed meant to be an adjunct

to studying with a teacher in a class setting - it's

like homework, and does go with his excellent videos.

During Guruji's recent visit here in San Deigo I had the

opportunity to watch David practice daily under Guruji's

watchful and approving eye. His practice is smooth,

beautiful and he floats into and out of effortless

handstands in vinyasa. While I don't know why his book is

not "officially" approved by KPJ, his practice

clearly is. I hope you have access to one of his videos

and could use a friend's VCR to watch it.<br>Good

luck with your practice!

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Skull:<br><br>(May I still call you

that? I'm rather fond of the nomenclature.)<br><br>I

humbly accept your most kind apology, and I offer mine

for any offense I have caused you.<br><br>I am glad

you took the time to read back over the messages!

There is a lot of wisdom on this board, as well as a

lot of humor (and yes, fluff and drivel too) and so

many dive in and think it starts where they have

entered. When in fact a lot of meaningful messages are

buried thousands of posts ago. (Which we can't find as

there is no searching mechanism, right John and

Sun?)<br><br>For an ahimsa-spouting group, we do engage in a lot

of verbal sparring (I am no exception), and you

certainly entered the fray with both guns blaring! I am

looking forward to reading the John Scott book (will it

be published in the US soon?) from all the acolades

it has received here. I am sure I will learn a lot

from it.<br><br>I don't generally dis teachers for

several reasons. Here are a few:<br>1) All of them surely

a know a heck of a lot more than I do; <br>2) These

are people who are engaged in a worthy life

path;<br>3) There is probably a student of that teacher here

who will be hurt and never come back, and that is a

loss for all of us.<br>(sorry, all you Bikram students

lurking out there!) <br><br>As the wise Laproxdoc says,

you are to be commended; it takes a lot of discipline

to develop a practice on your own. Self-learning and

self-practice are indeed difficult, as many other members know.

I hope you find a good teacher, and make your way

to Mysore as soon as you can. And I hope you have

the opportunity to see Mr. Swenson in action when he

makes his way over there. It will be an eye-opening

experience, I guarantee it.<br><br>Wishing you an everyone

happy holidays,<br><br>Bandawoman

[Guest guest]

I also apologise if my response to some of your

earlier postings was hasty and excessively

harsh.<br><br>In defence of German ashtanga teachers, though ...

there are about three who are "authorised" to teach by

Patthabi Jois in the sense that they have his approval to

teach primary series. What this means has been

discussed here in the past at great length - basically, as

I understand it, it means he is satisfied that they

have a good intermediate-level (second series)

practice and that they are not just physically proficient

("only bending") but show a good understanding of what

the practice is really about. This is different from

"certified", which implies a highly advanced level of practice

(third series or above) and long periods of personal

study with Guruji - a level which, as you have seen

from ashtanga.com, only a couple of dozen people in

the world have attained. And unfortunately for those

of us in Germany the only German among them, Rolf,

lives in Goa and has no intention of ever visiting

Germany again (so I have heard - I've never met

him)<br><br>I've had the good fortune to have done workshops with

several certified teachers (John Scott, Annie Pace, Lino

Miele) and a couple of very advanced but non-certified

senior teachers (David Swenson & Danny Paradise). All

good teachers and very impressive yoga practitioners,

and I would say that the impression you have formed

from comparing John's book and David's is broadly

correct - the certified folks all teach the primary

series in a very straight, rigorous and pure way. David

and Danny, in different ways, both have a somewhat

modified and more easygoing approach - to teaching, that

is. It is quite obvious from their ability that their

practice is anything but "easygoing". <br><br>It would be

nice if we all had the opportunity to study regularly

with certified senior teachers, but we don't. That

doesn't mean other teachers aren't worth studying with.

My first teacher in England was a student of John

Scott who, at that time, had never been to Mysore. And

my current teacher in Munich has studied extensively

with Lino Miele and is currently on her second visit

to Mysore. Both relatively inexperienced, perhaps,

but both teaching well and as bandawoman put it,

"engaged in a worthy life path". In my opinion people like

these are worthy of support from students. They might

get to be certified senior teachers one day, and all

the current certified teachers were inexperienced

when they started - see what John Scott says about his

early teaching experiences, in an interview at

<a href=http://www.yogauk.com/YogaUK/people_page/johnscott.htm

target=new>http://www.yogauk.com/YogaUK/people_page/johnscott.htm</a><br><br>Try\

ing to learn without a teacher is very tough. Good

luck.