Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 Right at the end of it all, and shortly before collapsing into Shavasana, when your body feels like scrambled egg already, you lift yourself, legs dutifully folded in Padmasana, right off into Tolasana with both hands pressing on the mat, to stay there for the prescribed time of dreadful 100 breaths. <br><br>Or so it should be done, if you follow David Swenson's well respected instructions (on page 238 of the "Practice Manual" he sets great store on stressing that the breath count of ONE HUNDRED is NOT one of the many typos in his tome). However, I think that those 100 Tolasana breaths are done in a rather quick, Bhastrika-like fashion, which means that the time you spend balancing on your hands is not as dramatic as you might initially have believed.<br><br>But variety is the spice of life: in John Scott's "Ashtanga Yoga" the scourge is christened Uth Pluthi and done for the amount of equally dreadful 25 ujjayi breaths.<br><br>Which lets me wonder: what actually is the breathing technique K.P.Jois recommends for that particular posture - whatever its correct name might be? And what version do you follow in your personal Ashtanga practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 100 . I can't even count that far. No, the 25 ujjayi seems somehow more appropriate. The long calm and reflective quality of ujjayi is (hopefully) very strong at this point whereas bhastrika seems too frantic for what must be one of the most serene moments in the practice.<br><br>still david swenson knows a thing or two but, <br>well thats my tuppence worth. however tolasana is a nicer name. uth pluthi sounds like a city in a Borges tale, and an ugly city at that whereas tolasana sounds like a delicious ice cream or a unit of measurement for hash in manali.<br><br>hari om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 During PKJ's workshop in Southern California last August, at the end of practice he would shout, "UTH PLUTHI!" and everybody would cinch themselves up. Then he'd take a comically long time counting to ten, and he expected ujayi breaths -- anyone doing bhastrika breathing was a very bad man or lady. David Swenson looked surprisingly serene during the whole ordeal. He probably took at least 100 breaths to keep from passing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 I'm glad to see this, I was wondering the same thing. Not about the number, but about the type of breath. (I took the 100 breaths to be a goal to work toward, long term, and even 25 to be something to work toward.) I was doing fine, starting out at 15 breaths (now do 20), with the ujayi breaths, but then I read in DSwenson's book, the breaths described as "powerful". I changed to do it this way. Even though the powerful breaths had the upside(?) of finishing the routine faster, it somehow didn't feel right. Felt like I was introducing tension into my system. So lately I've been backing away from that, starting in ujayi, then finishing up with a few more powerful breaths. Glad to know I can ujayi it all the way...<br><br>E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 >From Slade's synapsis of Jois on video ....<br><br>20 breaths here...<br><a href=http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/yogvid01.htm target=new>http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/yogvid01.htm</a><br><br>25 breaths here....<br><a href=http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/yogvid04.htm target=new>http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/yogvid04.htm</a> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 Of the entire room of 2ndserizers, only 3 stayed up for the full count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 When I was attending Andrew Eppler's classes, we always did Tolasana right after 25 breaths in Lotus and right before Savasana. He said to aim for 100 breaths but just to do 10 or 20 or whatever you can. And these are rapid bastrika breaths. When a friend of his was visiting from England and taught a class, we did not do Tolasana. She said she was taught by BNS Iyengar that when you do asana, you do asana, when you do kriyas and pranayamas, then you do those. <br><br>On the Sarah Powers Maui video, she has the class do 20 breaths in Tolasana. (no bastrika breaths)<br><br>Richard Freeman's ends his video with 10 breaths in Lotus, followed by just a couple of breaths in "Utplatih" (though the accompanying book says 10 breaths), followed by a Vinyasa into Savasana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 That was the way he did it in New York too - a count from one to ten, but with the numbers in between *not* guaranteed to be in their normal sequence or to occur only once - the whole performance by some strange coincidence taking almost exactly as long as the strongest one or two people in the class could stay up. Both tough and funny.<br><br>In my own practice I can stay up for about ten normal ujayi breaths on a good day, so it will be a while before I need to worry about whether to do 25 or 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 But what is this bastrika breath? Never done that.. So here in Finland, where Lino Miele is the principal teacher we do (or are supposed to do ) 25 ujjays in Uth Pluthi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 Bastrika breath or breath of fire is a rapid breath through the nose with a strong forced exhale. I haven't really studied pranayama separately, but I would assume that this is one of the basic types of pranayama practice. <br>I notice that the Its Yoga manual says 25 "fire breaths" in Uttpluthi. I think the theory behind including this at the end of a session is that it expedites removal of toxins, which may have been stirred up through the practice.<br><br>It would be cool if someone with more experience could comment on this. Did PKJ used to include this as part of a primary Ashtanga practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 > she said she was taught by BNS Iyengar that when you do asana, you do asana, when you do kriyas and pranayamas, then you do those.<<br><br>TLS,<br><br>So I must suppose that according to BNS Iyengar, you shouldn't do ujjayi breathing in the postures, since ujjayi is a Pranayama technique? But then you shouldn't apply the bandhas either, because bandhas only make sense when done in connection with Pranayama.<br><br>Interestingly, this is also what that other, more famous Iyengar in Pune says: keep Asanas pure, don't mix them with Pranayamas & bandhas. But if you leave out ujjayi, and if you don't apply the bandhas during the postures: what is left, is that still Ashtanga Yoga at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 Alan,<br><br>Are you implying that Guruji is unable to count up to ten? Bad man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 Ok now I got it..Been there, done that. I used to do this with one of my teachers, but what I recall it was called otherwise (can't remember what). So, first the asana practice using only ujjayi breathing (and with a proper relaxation). And after that sitting in padmasana or in other steady position, we did this bastika and other, for example nadi shodana, pranayama practices. If we had classes in the morning we could start with some pre-warming pranayamas before the asana practice.<br>So, to shining skull: when Iyengar tells to keep asana and pranayama separate he could just mean that during asana practice you are not supposed to use any other breathings than ujjayi and then practice the other pranayamas other time. Although the keep-the-bandhas-out-of-it sounds very weird indeed. <br>Well, this is me again with a little knowledge and a lot of enthusiasm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 Well, I can't answer for BNS, but I assume that he teaches ujayi and bandhas along with asanas. Also, even though he is basically teaching the same yoga as PKJ, I don't think he claims to be teaching according to PKJ's current teachings. It just seems that there is some variation among teachers on what kind of breathing is used in Tolasana. In the classes I went to, we also preceded the salutations by working on nauli kriya, which is probably not part of most Ashtanga classes, but seems to be a good thing to add to the session. I think of Ashtanga yoga as being the ultimate asana practice and I think that there is value in understanding a tradition and in keeping it pure, so I someetimes find these discussions useful and interesting. But on the other hand, I am exploring all kinds of yoga and other physical disciplines and it looks to me like there is an infinite variety of things that may be appropriate for different people at different times. So some of these minor variations in how different teachers present Ashtanga yoga may not really be that big of a deal. And of course, if someone really wants to get to the bottom of it, I guess they would want to go study with PKJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2001 Report Share Posted February 1, 2001 Not guilty. I'm implying that Guruji has the talent of mixing difficulty with humour, which is a sign of a really good teacher. <br><br>Or maybe he just can't count up to ten in English very well - how are your Kannada & Sanskrit? (Actually, I suppose that last comment is unfair - I assume you are a native German speaker, but your English is obviously excellent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2001 Report Share Posted February 1, 2001 I'm not a teacher, but I have been told by several teachers that Patthabi Jois used to teach bastrika breathing in utt plithi (sp?) but now says only ujayi breathing.<br><br>My original teacher in England, who was a student of John Scott, was teaching bastrika breathing four years ago but doesn't any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2001 Report Share Posted February 1, 2001 Alert: the following is purely academic tomfoolery.<br><br>Seems that we can resolve the oddity of BNS's alleged "keep-the-bandhas-out-of-it" remark as follows:<br><br>Godfrey Deveroux, a student of BNS, distinguishes between uddiyana bandha (the extreme suck-in of the abdomen that would, for instance, prepare for nauli kriya) from uddiyana mudra (the more subtle pulling in that we maintain throughout the ashtanga practice). Also uddiyana mudra, if deepened to the bottom of the abdominal wall, seems to automatically engage the perineum for what we call mula bandha.<br><br>So maybe we don't really do what BNS would define as "bandhas" during asana practice.<br><br>I don't know what to say about ujjayi pranayama.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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