Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 "Certification is completely meaningless."<br><br>Really?<br><br>If I look at the "Ashtanga Yoga Classification of Teaching" put out on John Scott's website, <a href=http://www.ashtanga.co.uk/main.htm target=new>http://www.ashtanga.co.uk/main.htm</a> (in the "articles" section), it seems to me that only certified teachers are allowed to teach astanga yoga beyond the intermediate series. <br><br>In fact, I know of no other hatha-yoga system which outlines such strict requirements for becoming a teacher as astanga yoga does. Not even iyengar yoga, which certainly is one of the most rigorous yoga systems you can find, is not so strict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Certification to teach ashtanga?<br> May be, this is a demand and motive of ashtanga mafia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 "ashtanga mafia"??<br><br>But isn't it Sri K Pattabhi Jois himself who demands those certification requirements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 LEADER OF MAFIA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Dear Mr Viswanath <br><br>No, I have no idea what they're going on about sometimes either but then again I'm not totally sure if i understand some of my own postings. Let us have our madness, everything is coming, it's just it sure takes some struggling hereabouts<br><br>Yours sincerely<br><br>Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 No no no, Jois is certainly not a mafia leader. I am just wondering what you mean whith "ashtanga mafia"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Anyone can teach astanga yoga who chooses to teach astanga yoga. No one owns the term "astanga yoga," no one owns the practice.<br><br>Curiously, the requirements for teaching, according to John Scott's website, have something to do with attending classes at one certain yoga shala in Mysore India. Tuition is $400 or so a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 you gotta get this straight in yer head- the elaborate certification requirements you now see on betty and john's sites were for all intents and purposes conceived not so much by guruji or sharath but by certain western students who have agendas of their own. previously, guruji simply stated that you had to finish 3rd series but even if you were physically capable, ultimately he would decide on whether the student was worthy to be certified.can you honestly imagine guruji dictating all those conditions? it isn't his style to put everything down like that. there are people who have cajoled him and put those words in his mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Anyone can teach astanga yoga who chooses to teach astanga yoga. No one owns the term "astanga yoga," no one owns the practice.<br><br>Yes indeed, and therefore I asked in one of my last messagges why it is not possible fot those who love a certification (in Europe everybody loves a certification...) to get it from a good teacher here in Europe? There are good teacher here (Lino Miele, John Scott with little mistakes in his book but surely excellent in his teaching I suppose). If in the whole world there is one man who holds the line what about the millions of handys, will say - and take a look to the boxing matches (even if yoga has only a little to do with boxing...), now there exists various federations. May be one day if there will be no liberation on this subject of teaching there could be various federations in teaching Ashtanga-Yoga too. Why not make it now voluntary like in Iyengar-System? Lu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Lu,<br><br>I think it's all about keeping teaching standards high & preserving the alleged purity of "the system" - although, I myself don't see much "purity" in astanga yoga, as it seems to me that every astanga book will teach you a different version of how to do the series.<br><br>On those "little mistakes" in John Scott's "Ashtanga Yoga" book, I will e-mail Scott personally today, and then post his reply on this board. I like the vinyasa count, because it helps put a structure into the sequences of the astanga series. I think to have read somewhere that Lino Miele too is fascinated by the vinyasa counting, whereby every breath syncronized with movement has its own number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Concerning the teaching of Guruji I have to rely on second hand information. Anyway I think, that the teaching "standard" especially the hand on adjustments of many western teachers like David Swenson, Richard Freeman, etc. is much better than the "Mysore" standard.<br>As stated in one of the recent posts, a certificate is no guarantee that a person is a qualified Yoga teacher, and that is true for every kind of Yoga practise. >From my experience it completely depends on the teacher himself, his experience, his way to pass the yoga.<br>Any kind of "Ashtanga Education System" wouldn't make any teacher a better one as one sees perhaps in Iyengar Yoga.<br>There will always be the problem to find a teacher from whom you can (or you think you can) learn something "the right way".<br><br>Yours in Yoga<br>Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 Yes, the teaching should be kept on a high standard. But, somebody wrote here, that there must be the possibility to make a teacher-training with the followed permission to teach also in our good old Europe. Otherwise there will be always such "charlatans" like senor unknown who don't want to go to Mysore and teach it by the way in a bad way.<br>If there would be standards in teaching (like the training in Iyengar-yoga), this could help to uphold a good teaching. Then we can also preserve the purity of the system because then there are standards for all who wants to teach.<br>Pattabhi would be a great man if he would do this step forward to the future und would gain such a reputation like B.K.S. Iyengar for making ready the world for Ashtanga-Yoga.<br>There is also no need to be afraid of losing students, everybody who wants to work with the big-big man would always going to Mysore, even then. Lu<br>(only for us Germans: Our Mosi (Mooshammer) sang: Let's go and share!)(0 points, but he was not only missing his little dog, he does not come from Island too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 Those who have faith in the teacher and the teachings need no paper certification. if you're looking for formal, universal standards, you're probably just another flighty practitioner looking for the next experience from another teacher - yet another angle of the yoga tourist- no focus, no understanding, no practice. if i were you, i'd just be concerned about getting on my mat everyday. <br><br>the Iyengar method is wonderful for those who enjoy being intellectually entertained, but lousy for yoga. the very nature of Iyengar's creative genius defies transmission, hence most of what passes for Iyengar's teaching, especially for those certified, is little more than a poor fascimile with little substance or background. are these the kind of standards you seek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 to what end i wonder. yoga practice can be rigorous, and i know i have used that word to describe my training, but looking at the phrase "rigorous yoga system" today it seems oxymoronic -- especially when considering that the yoga sutras tell us unequivocally to release all effort while holding an asana. sri p. jois tells us the yoga sutras are his only source for ashtanga yoga, so this is a salient point. effort starts with a vrtti, a thought fluctuation. if we still the mind in meditation vrttis cease. in this way we realize our true nature, pure consciousness. a practice not teaching us to give up all effort may be based in yoga, but is missing the essential nature of yoga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 LOL. certification is a good thing to my mind. the fault lies with those who accept the certification, like any credential, as something other than what it is. in the corporate age people abdicate their judgment to seals of approval stamped by others. employees are hired according to benchmarks which may have nothing to do with true ability. yoga practice can go a long way to fending off that system, which leads to schizophrenia, or vikalpa and viparyaya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 While I agree with you that the context of "rigorous" (connoting shades of bootcamp and teeth-gnashing ardor) may not quite fit with what we consider to be yogic, still,<br><br>"Abhyasa" (long, sustained, intense practice) is a fundamental key to yoga practice. So says Patanjali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 namaste'.<br><br>point well taken. without abhyasa there is no yoga. i have learned that the effort in question, however, is in giving up all effort (should i send that to hallmark cards?).<br><br>yoga sutra 1.12:<br>abhyasa-vairagyabhyam tan-nirodhah<br><br>their (vrttis, mind fluctuations) control is brought about by practice (abhyasa) and nonattachment. (vishnu-devananda)<br><br>their (vrttis) control is by practice and nonattachment. (vivekananda)<br><br>yoga sutra 1.13:<br>tatra sthitau yatno 'bhyasah |<br><br>abhyasa is the continuous effort toward firmly establishing the restraint of thought waves. (vishnu-devananda)<br><br>continuous struggle to keep them (vrttis) perfectly restrained is practice. (vivekananda)<br><br>but taken as a whole, the ashtanga (8 limbs) of raja yoga include pratyahara, withdrawal of the senses, abstraction of sensations into pure thought, so they may be controlled in the mind with all other thoughts.<br><br>pratyahara allows us to transcend self-identification with the physical body, with the senses. we can then exert what might otherwise seem to be great effort effortlessly, as it were.<br><br>i practice patanjali's teaching that a yoga posture is stable and comfortable, that we release all effort in the posture and focus the mind in meditation. pratyahara allows the physical body's intuitive wisdom to emerge, without the will powered by vrttis, i.e., no forcing or straining. <br><br>this also allows us to honor ahimsa, doing no harm, and tapas, austerity, doing only what is required, and ishwara pranidhana, surrender to the infinite. anything that disturbs stability, comfort, effortlessness and meditation is an obstacle to yoga. through practice, long and sustained and rigorous -- but in its subtle, correct way -- we learn to let the mind still and the body relax, allowing yoga (union of the illusory individual with the real universal Self) to transpire.<br><br>my interpretations come through study, practice, and observation, and are certainly subject to constant evolution. i appreciate the invaluable opportunity to discuss with colleagues.<br><br>om shantih,<br>jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 Yes, hopefully there will be more discussion of the sutras here.<br><br>I've just begun reading Iyengar's work on the sutras. I think the introduction itself is worth the price of the book. I also have a nice, very to the point, but much shorter treatment of this subject in Desikachar's PATANJALI'S YOGASUTRAS, which may be out of print. Perhaps D has written other books on the Sutras which are still available.<br><br>Also on my shelf is Satchidananda's book on Patajali, which is rather folksy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 cool -- our karma allows us access to limitless sources of information, for which i am grateful every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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