Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 Hello, all. This recent thread has certainly hit home with me because I continue to have hand and wrist pain caused by ashtanga. Unfortunately, despite my deep attention to keeping the palm flat and everything perfectly aligned, and despite the fact that many people advised me it would probably go away, my hands over time got worse and I finally replaced my ashtanga practice with a Bikram-style practice (has its merits, but that's another conversation) for the last couple of months. During this time, my hands healed (proving to me it was caused by ashtanga and not typing or my rock climbing interest), and I have been so missing vinyasa, that I recently decided to try adding in a few sun salutes here and there. But almost immediately, the hand pain has returned. Not bad yet, but I don't want to push it! <br><br>Please, please, has anybody else out there had this experience? And if not, can anyone recommend someone who might be able to help me -- an ashtanga teacher with deep structural knowledge for example, who I might be able to e-mail or visit? <br><br>Dreaming of vinyasa,<br>Robyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 I feel your pain. I hope you find your answer. If so share it with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 Although practicing Ashtanga is what makes your wrists hurt, I wouldn't say that Ashtanga is the cause of the problem. Of course that depends on what we mean by cause. But the root problem is the deep tension in your musculoskeletal system. Bones become misalligned as a result of chronic tension in the muscles and fascia. If you were all straightened out you would have no trouble doing Ashtanga. But then if any of us were really straightened out we wouldn't need asana practice. The practice of Ashtanga yoga is meant to get everything into allignment. However, Ashtanga as commonly taught is kind of a one-size-fits-all deal and that isn't going to work for everyone. Practicing Bikram or modified Ashtanga for the time being may improve the condition to where you can get back to Ashtanga. But there may also be more effective methods to pursue.<br><br>There may be Ashtanga teachers around who can help you with this. But unless you live where there happens to be just the right person, this is probably not the first place I would look. There is a kind of self-selection process that seems to filter out everyone but the most physically fit from even trying Ashtanga yoga, not to mention getting into it enought to become a teacher. Most Ashtanga teachers don't really specialize in what might be called therapeutic yoga.<br><br>In the yoga world, you might look more towards Iyengar teachers. I would also suggest checking out Sam Dworkis. I highly recommend both of his books, ExTension and Recovery Yoga. You can read more about those books and get lots of great information at his website: <a href=http://extensionyoga.com target=new>http://extensionyoga.com</a><br><br>I have the impression that Tias Little is an Ashtanga teacher who gets pretty deeply into issues that most teachers don't expore. He is in New Mexico but travels around alot. See<br><a href=http://www.yogasource-santafe.com target=new>http://www.yogasource-santafe.com</a><br><br>But it doesn't really matter what school a teacher comes from as long as they can help.<br><br>Since there is a size limit on messages here, I will continue in the next post....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 As I mentioned in another post yesterday, I would highly recommend getting a copy of Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Strain Injuries by Sharon Butler. She is a Hellerworker, which is a type of bodywork developed by Joseph Heller, a Rolfer (and former president of the Rolf Institute) who didn't think that Rolfing should hurt. Her book is entirely oriented toward self-healing and is permeated by a positive attitude. Note the word CONQUER in the title. Please get this book!<br><br>You may also want to look for a Hellerworker. Many have been trained by Sharon Butler. For more info on Hellerwork, see <a href=http://www.hellerwork.com target=new>http://www.hellerwork.com</a><br><br>Also, you might want to look into Feldenkrais. <br><br>There may be all kinds of people who can help. You may want to reveal your location. Someone may then have more specific recommendations. <br><br>Various types of massage or bodywork may be helpful. SELF-massage may be very beneficial.<br><br>Personally I am committed to self-healing, which is one reason I am so interested in yoga. Whatever anyone does to help you, you will still have to do the real work yourself.<br><br>For more info (and info on how to get info) about hand problems, see this page on my website:<br><a href=http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/hands.htm target=new>http://www.ionet.net/~tslade/hands.htm</a><br><br>The first step in self-healing is education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 TLSlade,<br><br>Thank you with the deepest sincerity for your thorough and compassionate reply. I, too, believe in self-healing and in fact already bought the Flex-Tend gloves you talk about on your very informative hand site (they help a bit when used consistently). I just now placed an order for the Sharon Butler book and look forward to reading it. <br><br>I am also aware that I harbor deep muscular tension throughout my upper body (I type 8 hours a day and climb on the weekends!!) -- so you might be right that this is the true source of my pain from ashtanga. I have also had shoulder, neck and elbow injuries from my previous athletic life, so no doubt that all plays a role. <br><br>I guess I just kept hoping that if I did my daily ashtanga practice, all would be healed. But, it's obviously going to take more patience and intelligence than that!! <br><br>No doubt, the many resources you suggested will be a good starting point on the path. <br><br>With gratitude,<br>Robyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 I'm needing to update my Flextend page. I'm not sure I would really recommend that product. It may be helpful, but I think the same results can be accomplished with rubber bands. For the price they could have made the product a little better, like using smooth rings that don't catch the rubber tubing. But I'll try anything! There was an interesting discussion on Sorehand about flexors and extensors. It was pointed out that the flexors and extensors don't necessarily have to have equal strength to be in balance. The human body was designed to do a lot of hand flexing and there isn't much need for strength in the extensors.<br><br>I might recommend one more very interesting book which is loaded with great info for anyone wanting to heal themselves of musculo-skeletal problems: Pain Free by Pete Egoscue. This is a pretty new book and can be found in bookstores. One of his main messages is that the human body is ment to move and that lots of our problems are cause by our modern lifestyle involving lots of sitting (which starts with having to sit in desks at school for hours a day). He explains his ideas in the first few chapters and then covers each section of the body, giving lots of interesting exercises which he calls e-cises.<br><br>Also, speaking of motion, a friend of mine turned me onto an interesting website a few days ago. It is about Babaji, the avatar who is discussed in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi. It is <a href=http://www.babji.net target=new>http://www.babji.net</a><br>Anyway, I found this there:<br>"The result of hard work is happiness and the result of laziness is pain. Troubles of this world are caused by inactivity. I repeatedly tell you this so that you will be industrious and be benefitted."<br><br>I like the idea in Midnight Omboy's post about giving up attachment to accomplishment. It was hard for me to accept that I could no longer do a lot of the yoga that I used to be able to do. It was hard enough to accept that I was already so far "behind" everyone else. But we have to start where we are and just keep putting one foot in front of the other.<br><br>Some time ago I started to look at Ashtanga practice as a goal. So I have to develop my own personal practice which may someday make me able to again practice Ashtanga.<br><br>And you are certainly right about patience and intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 hi, TL. namaste'. thanks for all the info re books & such. the one about pain resulting from sedentary habits certainly rings true. remember distinctly all through childhood suffering sitting in school desks, knowing from an early age that such unnatural restrictions were a baaaaaaaaad idea, and probably constituted some form of child abuse. i was a skinny lad, and the pain from sitting for hours could be especially unbearable on my bony little ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Hey Robyn,<br>Just want to share with you that my friend came to New York for eight weeks recently and at the end of the first month she fell on the ice and broke her arm. She almost decided not to pay for month two of yoga since she has a cast on her arm and didn't think it would be worth the money. She was also very disappointed because she is working on her upper-body strength since it a place where she feels particularly vulnerable.<br><br>So on the last day of yoga she asked Peter what she should do and he said come and just breathe. I mean that is what this yoga is all about anyway, right? She finally decided to pay for the month and discovered amazing things she wasn't expecting. WHat she, and everybody else there teaching, came to discover, was that there is a lot that she could do with a cast on her arm - including marichyasana D. She also became stronger in many other poses and much more confident in herself which is something she would not have found if she had not broken her arm and kept working on her 'upper body strength'. A lot of people were really inspired by her, including the people teaching. Her arm has healed and the cast is off.<br><br>There is a lot of patience and intelligince in your decision to do your daily practice, you just might have to do things differently and that may be a clue to getting past the hand ostacle. Plus, a few prayers to Ganesha wouldn't hurt.<br><br>FBL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Here is a link that describes the study that used yoga to treat carpal tunnel syndrome, and lists the postures they used. <a href=http://www.YOGASITE.COM/ytn3.html#4 target=new>http://www.YOGASITE.COM/ytn3.html#4</a><br>scroll down to back issue #4<br><br>Also, an Iyengar teacher of mine used to suggest putting wedges under the hands for wrist pain. The wedges ran the length of the hand and gave about an inch or so of lift. Some people used the wedge to elevate the fingers, some the base of the hand, depending on their pain. Maybe this could help make vinyasas tolerable while you do other things to unwind the tension in your hands and shoulders.<br>(p.s. Rolfing did amazing things for my chronic tension) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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