Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 thankyou for sharing your experience. I enjoyed reading the info. Still curious whether he taught full vinyasa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 No, not the full vinyasa. Just the way people are taught these days. Half-vinyasa between the sides and poses. <br><br>From what I've read/heard Guruji does not recommend full vinyasa any more since it can strain your heart too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 May I ask what you mean by half vinyasa? Do you mean a half vinyasa, as in to transit from left to right side? I'm just guessing...I'm practising a vinyasa as laid out in Godfrey Devereaux's book 'Dynamic Yoga', but I haven't as yet linked the Pacifying, Foundation, and Preparatory Series (as laid out) together and of course some asanas are beyond my reach. I nearly always seem to find my own order of poses which varies each day as I see fit. But if I don't do it the usual(unplanned)way it seems boring to me. For I know it to be something that goes where it wants to go and not necessarily where it's told to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Regarding the second half of your post, I have seen posts like this one, and I believe you are actually asking for guidance, but your pride is stopping you asking in a straightforward way.<br><br>Your need to make this statement about your planning of a yoga session seems to contain some insecurity. So I would advise you to go with your intuition and your deepest feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 That's great, excpet what you are doing is not ashtanga. Whatever you are doing is fine, but don't kid yourself. Remember that even in viniyoga (what G. D. teaches, I think) you do the poses that your teacher lays out for you, not the poses you 'feel like doing'. You are missing the spiritual discipline of yoga. What is boring? Not yoga.<br><br>FBL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 << From what I've read/heard Guruji does not recommend full vinyasa any more since it can strain your heart too much. >><br><br>Yes, that's what I've read too - on EZboard, as it happens.<br><br>It should be said however that, regardless of what Guruji might recommend, Lino still does seem to teach full vinyasa, as you can easily deduce from reading some of the reviews of Lino Miele's workshops at Moksha Yoga Shala in Chicago published on Betty's ashtanga.com site. Sample: "Sunday morning was reserved for a strenuous full vinyasa practice, in which each movement has a breath (vinyasa) and number...", <a href=http://www.yogachicago.com/nov00/linomiele.shtml target=new>http://www.yogachicago.com/nov00/linomiele.shtml</a> .<br><br>And in <a href=http://www.yogachicago.com/nov99/linomiele.shtml target=new>http://www.yogachicago.com/nov99/linomiele.shtml</a> you can read the following: "Full vinyasa is not practiced in Mysore, where poses are given one at a time. Lino says that it takes "a few years" to build up the stamina to do it, and that he teaches it to students after they've completed the primary series."<br><br>Lino Miele seems to be particularly fond of the full vinyasa method. He demonstrates it in both his book "Astanga Yoga" as well as in his video on primary series (all approved by Sri Jois, btw). In his new book, John Scott also shows the primary series in full viyasa only, with a random notice that the whole thing can be done in half vinyasa too. Maybe the reason why full vinyasa is rarely taught in classes and workshops is not so much Sri Jois' alleged reservations about it, but simply because it takes too much time for the series to be completed that way - up to three hours, in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 I attended a Lino Miele workshop two months ago. We did not practice full vinyasa. <br><br>Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 FBL<br><br><<That's great, except what you are doing is not ashtanga>><br><br>Awhile ago I posted a similar comment only it was about SivanandaYoga.<br><br>One can do Ashtanga Vinyasa or one can do Sivananda or any other formal approach to hatha yoga, but every once in a while, if you are lucky, you get to the point of spontaneous yoga described by Amrit Desai and his Guru, where the body instinctively and effortlessly flows into a series of asanas with you as the passenger instead of the driver. <br><br>Quite an experience. Definitely not one that should be passed up for the sake of adhering to a formula if you have already, at least at that particular moment ,attained what the formula is asking of you. Then, should you not be free to explore where the asanas want to take you?<br><br>Omprem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 you know, i've heard a yogic story that the asanas came about from meditating ascetics who spontaneously jumped up during meditation and performed asana. interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Omprem - Astanga is NOT about "spontaneous yoga", and it is NOT about being "free to explore where the asanas want to take you" either. Doing the asanas in the prescribed order is a principle of fundamental importance in Astanga Yoga, and if you are unable to realise this, you have understood not one little bit, sorry to say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 Full vinyasa is good on cold days, days where it's difficult to get the perspiration going with just 5 A's and 5 B's. Full vinyasa will produce that extra heat needed.<br><br>Half vinyasa is generally what most people do, but on extremely hot days, even vinyasa on both sides isn't necessary or IMO healthy. Quarter vinyasa is better when it's really hot.<br><br>There are several benefits to doing vinyasa, but chief among them (to me anyway) is heat generation. Each person, being as we're all different in what we need, can best judge for themselves how much vinyasa is really necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 <There are several benefits to doing vinyasa, but chief among them (to me anyway) is heat generation.><br><br>True. Nowadays, that I am forced to skip most of the vinyasa due to a shoulder injury I have noticed how important it is for keeping up the flow of the practise... the meditative quality and rhythm is lost when you just do an asana after another. <br><br>Also, you never know how good those upward looking doggies are for your back, after all that forward bending, until you cannot do them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2001 Report Share Posted July 24, 2001 shining skull<br><br>Ashtanga vinyasa yoga is a prescribed series of events intended to achieve a particular goal for a particular type of person. Similarly with Sivananda yoga and other 'brand names' of yoga that you can think of. They are constructed specifically to appeal to aspirants of particular personalities and karmas. Just as raja yoga, jnana yoga, bhakti yoga and karma yoga and all the other forms of Self-Realization are intended for people of different personalities. But once each of these aspirants begin to enter Self-Realization, their paths converge. At the base of the mountain the paths to the top are many, but once at the top of the mountain the view is the same for all.<br><br>Similarly, all forms of hatha yoga, have as their ultimate goal the creation of prana and even kundalini as well as making the physical, mental and astral bodies fit vehicles for prana and eventually kundalini to move through. Once this state of appropriateness is achieved, spontaneous yoga may, in fact, occassionally occur as intuition takes over to fine tune the aspirant's specific situation. <br><br>A practitioner may elect to continue with his/her prescribed regimen or go with the spontaneity if and when it occurs. Who cares. The primary objective is to move toward Self-Realization. <br><br>If someone needs to appproach Self-Realization one step at a time according to a set formula that is fine for them. But, if someone else is not dependent on that formula all the time for support and discipline, then they can move to Self-Realization in other ways. Don't forget that 'ashtanga' means 'eight limbs'. Asana-pranayama is not the be all and end all. Nor is a particular approach to asana-pranayama the be all and end all. There are many ingredients in the recipe for Self-Realization. The balance of these ingredients to each other is constantly changing. Their relative importance is constantly changing. Each of the eight limbs has many levels, some obvious, some not so obvious. Leave yourself open to your own intuition and don't be dependent on anyone or anything. You are the only one who can arrive at your own Self-Realization. Any one who tells you otherwise is a false prophet.<br><br>Omprem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2001 Report Share Posted July 28, 2001 OK Kwisatch2. I read your message and I haven't returned to it until now because I wanted to think for awhile first about how to reply, something hardly anyone ever does. So what kind of real guidance could you provide over the Internet anyway? And because I'm aware of that why would I ask? And maybe I was expressing some sort of frustration, some sort of frustration that everyone must sooner or later go through. Actually, I think I was probably being more honest than you, only expressing it publicly. How is that pride?<br><br>What happens is this : I'm in the middle of a sequence which I've done many times, and get this, my intuition and deepest feelings tell me I need to do a certain asana, and it also fits in thematically with the previous move, in fact it vinyasas in a meaningful way. In this way I am able to segue back into the order things are supposed to be right after I break from the accepted norm, which I do regularly, and add half an hour to the total time. As far as insecurity, I think a lot of times it's just the opposite, it's a way to access different and new postures, and open up those new synapses while still serving the old master. No, I don't plan every single move, sometimes I lose my self in new directions. If it were about pride, I would have injured myself a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2001 Report Share Posted July 28, 2001 FBL thanks for replying, except I don't have a teacher and even if I did, I'd still have to contend with the same thing, the need to vary the routine. How do you suppose the great variety of poses came about anyway? I never claimed to practice some pure form of ashtanga, but that doesn't preclude my being interested in it, and whether you think what I practise is or is not Ashtanga isn't really the issue anyway. Not everyone is able to choose the ideal circumstances to learn yoga. I wish I could but for various reasons I can't. If your circumstances are perfect for you I'm happy for you. It's not the yoga I consider boring, it's the repetition of doing the same thing the same way every time. I consider that mechanical. My disatisfaction may also contain some motivating factor, which is partly what I use this club for. And from your reply am I to consider you being positioned in the eye of the spiritual discipline and able to figure out just what my motivational problem may be? If everything were fine, would I need to practise yoga? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2001 Report Share Posted July 28, 2001 Oprem, thank you. Sorry I may have misjudged you on the basis of all those other confusing posts. You always seemed a reasonable enough guy at the other club. That comment about Stockwell Day was probably uncalled for, and yet you didn't react with anger which you might have. But you did acknowledge that I struck a nerve, nothing more, which I wish I were always capable of only doing!<br><br>The perfect metaphor for what I was trying to say : "where the body instinctively and effortlessly flows into a series of asanas with you as the passenger instead of the driver." Spontaneous yoga, thank you! Shouldn't we all be free to explore the different vistas our large-sized brains makes available to us? Not to put down structure, everyone needs that, but a person's reach should always exceed their grasp. If each person is an individual and in every way different, then how can the exact same sequence of poses be equally good for each person, therefore variety = growth. Why else have so many different poses? So many different kinds of people perhaps that have different requirements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2001 Report Share Posted July 28, 2001 Omprem<br><br>It's interesting to note that those who defend systems that (obviously) work (for some), don't work for everyone, and fail to realize that the entire modern system of yoga was based on the innovative, and changes to the tried and true. Maybe what works for you won't work for me even if some insist it works for them so it should work for me. One thing for sure, if it weren't for innovation, there would be no modern system of yoga, much less ashtanga yoga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2001 Report Share Posted July 30, 2001 I think the perspective of following a structure is described well in this quote from Dena Kingsberg:<br><br><br>When asked whether she tires of the repetitive nature of the ashtanga vinyasa practice, in which a set series of poses is practiced in a specific order, Dena said that she has yet to find it stale or redundant.<br><br>"What is different is that if your practice is the same every day, you are variable in experience. If you change the practice, you have no mirror. Then it's a whim, not a spiritual practice. It's not something we create, but has been tried and tested. With a program you get an insight as to where you were-you get to watch yourself evolve through the process. If you take a piece of metal and rub it in the same place every day, it eventually will bend."<br><br><br>The rest of the article is at:<br><br><a href=http://www.yogachicago.com/jul99/dena.shtml target=new>http://www.yogachicago.com/jul99/dena.shtml</a> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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