Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Hi, Alan.<br><br>Well, sure it's not smart to do advanced postures without preparation. I guess I missed your point.<br><br>What I'm trying to say is that you can hurt yourself in yoga (and maybe even more so on ashtanga, given the tremendous energy the practice unleashes) even if you are being reasonably careful. It takes some time to develop enough body awareness to know when a bit more effort is going to be too much.<br><br>I'm not bothered by the fact that you can get hurt in yoga even if your are careful. (A careful mountain-bike rider can get hurt -- this doesn't mean mountain-bike riding is a bad thing.) What worries me is that people won't ACKNOWLEDGE that you can get hurt in yoga -- that you can get hurt when being adjusted even by careful and experienced teachers, etc.<br><br>By the way, Alan, did you attend the Deveroux/BNS yoga event this summer? How was it?<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 I won't identify my friend (I doubt he would mind but I have not consulted him) but I will describe his situation.<br><br>He was in upavishta konasana at his maximum stretch, with his chest about six inches off the ground. Without warning Sharath came up behind him and pushed his chest to the floor, causing an "agonizing" tear -- hamstring I think. My friend reported the injury (to Sri KPJ I believe) and was told: "An opening -- good!" He required six months to recover from this "opening."<br><br>He's not bitter, but the characterization of injuries as "openings" rankles him somewhat. He remains a very serious yogi but no longer practices Ashtanga (for reasons unrelated to Mysore incident).<br><br>This was all at least five years ago. Things may have changed in Mysore since then.<br><br>Peace and Good,<br>Homer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 for those concerned about harsh adjustments, if you are going to one of the workshops why not tell sharat or guruji before class that you have an injury and are concerned about adjustments. Stop any miscommunication beforehand. I'm sure your wishes will be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 "I wasn't trying to imply that my injury was his fault."<br><br>Oh, okay, I misunderstood. Never mind.<br><br>"I think it's human nature that, those things we can do easily, we have a hard time understanding those who have difficulty doing those same things."<br><br>I think you are absolutely right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 Thanks for the details Homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 <<What worries me is that people won't ACKNOWLEDGE that you can get hurt in yoga -- ....>><br><br>And those who do not acknowledge it as such are abusers of the person who is injured! A dangerous group think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2001 Report Share Posted September 1, 2001 Shining skull, <br>i have been practising ashtanga for about 2 years, i do enjoy the cardio vascular excercise, breathing and streching combined. I am noticing that parts of my body are chronically sore and am backing off a little. with regards to sri pattabhi jois and being "scared" i wouldn't characterize my emotion as scared, more as tentative. <br><br>after hearing a few of the instructors i know say that they were injured in mysore i am trying to collect more information.<br><br>summary on this board seems to be the following.<br><br>1) at puck building in ny there will be hundereds of peopld (200) so guruji will not get much of chance to touch you.<br><br>2)even if he does and it takes you to places that you don't want to go, you can indicate this vocally.<br><br>3)guruji is a nice man and would never intentionally injure, so don't worry.<br><br>4)watch the ego, its the ego that injures itself rather than guruji's adjustments.<br><br>5)lots of stories of people who were injured by adjustments, and some stories of guruji seeming to say that the injury was part of the process.<br><br>btw i am reassesing if ashtanga is a practice that i want to continue, i used to practise sivananda yoga for many years. when i first tried ashtanga i liked it cause it gives cardio and strength much more than the sivananda practice that i did. also the emphasis on bandhas and ujjayi breathing is interesting. the physical injury associated with ashtanga make me wonder.<br><br>compared to other forms of yoga it seems that there is a lot more "macho" associated with ashtanga, everyone always seems to want to get to a position, and guruji adjusting you to get there is a little funny, especially if it injures. other yogi''s of the same vintage as sri k pattabhi jois that i have met, ( i haven't met him sri jois yet) have told me not to worry about getting anywhere, there is nowhere to get to! they often quote the gita " to action alone do you have a right, never at all to its results" this seems very close to guruji's "practice and all is coming" but the adjustments and injuries seem contrary to this philosophy.<br><br>long post sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Sixtinain - Omboy clone <br><br>Not a very sattvic post, but quite representative of the tamasic nature of your posts.<br><br>Serve. Love. Give. Purify. Meditate. Realize.<br><br>Omprem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Shiny<br><br>Every hatha yoga teacher that I know, including the Sivananda and Ashtanga Vinyasa ones, have injured themselves because they fail to follow their own advice that they give to students; viz., Listen to your body, stay within your mental and physical limits and keep the ego in check. <br><br>In addition, I agree with the comments about having the focus to refuse adjustments with grace. <br><br>Also, I don't see much nervousness or envy in yoga teachers who do not follow the ashtanga-vinyasa approach regarding the popularity of the ashtanga-vinyasa approach. Presumably because they recognize the validity of their chosen approach for them.<br><br>I do encounter fear and nervousness over the popularity of all types of yoga from aerobics/fitness instructors. These people are desperately trying to incorporate yoga postures into their fitness routines in an attempt to look 'with it'. I encourage them to take a Yoga Teacher's Training Course to learn how to teach asana/pranayama correctly and to discover the context into which asana/pranayama fits. I remind them that they had to be certified as Fitness Teachers before they were allowed to teach and have to be re-certified annually. Then I ask if they agree that they should also be certified as yoga teachers if they intend to incorporate yoga into their teachings. Of course, most of them, say, 'No" and just continue trying to learn about the asanas from books and the internet.<br><br>But, who knows, if you make those obsevations and ask those questions often enough, perhaps the governing body for fitness teachers might eventually listen.<br><br>Omprem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 Last summer in France I was having serious neck problems. I decided to attend guruji's practice anyway and told him and Sarnath that I couldn't do certain asanas like Setu Bandasana. They totally respected my wishes. I never had to do setu bandasana and guruji and sarnath accepted it compassionately.<br><br>Yeshe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2001 Report Share Posted September 4, 2001 Homer,<br>Though we must always work with best intentions, great care must be taken that our words and actions are indeed correct and pure. Otherwise, our efforts and words can be tainted by ego, fear and ignorance and become merely a disservice.<br>That is the position we find ourselves when we engage in spreading second-hand news about "close" injured yoga friends who blame the guru and give up the practice. We are spreading gossip.<br>Homer, you have been quick to distance yourself from Pattabhi Jois with comments like: He hurts people! and I don't buy in to the guru thing!<br>Realize that Pattabhi Jois is the yogi who filled the cup from which you so love to drink.<br>Is it fair to speak of him in such a way without having direct experience of him? Isn't Ashtanga yoga itself a path of direct experience? <br>I shared the sadden heart of dear Cynxir, who, after being in the light of the guru for a week, wondered what possessed others to cast such aspersions.<br><br>Your broadcast of such damp opinions of this great master produce only smoke, not the light you intended.<br><br>Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2001 Report Share Posted September 4, 2001 To my teacher Dean, from whom I have learned so much:<br><br>True, I don't fully to the guru tradition, at least not in a hardcore sense. This makes me open to the possibility that a yoga teacher, even a supremely skilled (perhaps even self-realized) yoga teacher, can make a mistake. I would hope that even those who follow a guru can accept such a possibility.<br><br>You take me to task for making a negative remark (hardly negative, though: my point was that yoga itself is a bit dangerous, not that guruji is the problem) about Sri Jois without having experienced him personally. Yet in your post you make a negative remark about my friend who was injured in Mysore, without having expereinced HIM personally. You can't have it both ways.<br><br>For my part, I have experienced my friend's integrity in a direct way over a period of years. I have not experienced Guruji. Whom am I to believe?<br><br>But must I really choose whom to believe? To my knowledge, Guruji has not stated that he has NEVER given an adjustment that resulted in injury. <br><br>In the absence of such a statement, my choice is between my friend who says he was injured on the one hand but harbors no bitterness, and on the other hand folks like FBL who blast away at anyone who raises the possibility that guruji or sharath or other certified teachers could be party to an injury. In that event, I choose the account of my friend, whose integrity I have experienced directly over the years, over the rather vitriolic claims of FBL.<br><br>Your Student and Still (Hopefully) Your Friend,<br>Homer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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