Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 so much for being "enlightened." I was not there to hear his remarks, although I am not doubting what you heard. I just know that this is a "human" man and like all of us, is not infallible. I personally feel that if he wishes to teach ashtanga with the ultimate goal of being enlightened and becoming one with God, then perhaps he should go back to class himself. I have been fortunate and blessed to have been born and raised in the United States and have not had to deal with the issues that many have faced over their religious views. I do know that God created all equal, regardless of color or nationality or religion. I personally, know that when I get up each day I ask myself at the end of the day "how did I show my love for God today?" I work everyday with Indians, Pakistanians and Muslims. My boss was Jewish and my husband is of German decent. They are my friends and my family. We cannot go around blaming others for what some "fanatic" choose to do. The greatest commandment of God is to love one another. Not an easy thing to do, especially when there is reason to hate. My son will be pulling into his port on saturday after being over by afghanistan for the past seven months. I am blessed, he is returning when others haven't. If I was teaching yoga and a muslim came to my class to learn, it would be my duty to open my door and show the love of God to another human. Margee > > drdaryl [sMTP:no_reply] > Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:43 PM > ashtanga yoga > ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach muslims > > Here is the post he was referring to: > > At the risk of REALLY getting in over my head here, I just want to > correct a misperception many make about Guruji. Just this past May, in > conference Guruji shared his opinions about Muslims and then stated > unequivocally, "I will not teach a Muslim yoga. Many have come to my > doors over the years and I have turned them all away. I will teach a > German, I will teach Australian, I will teach Japanese, but I will not > teach a Muslim." > > There was one young woman from New York whose father was Muslim, and > she got up and very generously said to Guruji, "Guruji, I have to > leave. I am very upset by what you just said. My father is a Muslim > and is a kind, peaceloving man. Not all Muslims are as you describe > them, and the statements that you made are incorrect. I don't think > you should have said what you said, so I have to leave now. I think > today is a very sad day." After she left, there was silence in the > room for a few minutes during which no one could look at each other, > and a few people cried. Even Guruji looked troubled. Then, students > started asking him questions about slokas from the Gita and what they > should eat and how they should sleep again without anyone addressing > what he had just said. > > As you can imagine, this was a very damaging experience for the woman > affected most directly and for many of us present. Several people > stopped practicing with him that day. > > So, I can't say with any firsthand knowledge what Guruji would do if > an untouchable wanted to have yoga classes from him, but I think it is > definitely inaccurate to say that now anyone can do it regardless of > whatever, etc. There is definitely prejudice in Pattabhi Jois's shala, > a prejudice which is freely expressed should the subject come up. > Whether you choose to call him a bigot or not is probably a personal > matter. Guruji may be a loveable man, but he is not a perfect being, > he is just like the rest of us. > > Also, one argument that was made while I was there was that this was > India and that "we" should respect the difficulties that indigenous > people experience there, that this conflict is thousands of years old > and that we just need to accept it. However, I can say, as an Indian > and as one who discussed this incident with my family there, that no, > not all Indians share Guruji's views about Muslims, and that many > believe that such views should not be put forward in the context of > teaching others. > > --- > > The link does work, it was just cut in the middle, simply put them > together Sis. > > Brother Brahman-Atmananda > <http://www/angelfire.com/yt/kr> > > ashtangayoga, "yogini_shakti" <Yogini_Shakti> wrote: > > This link is not working. Perhaps you could supply another link, or > > cut & paste the comments?. > > > > Om Shanti ... > > Yogini Shakti > > > > Sponsor > > > <http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > 0955:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/*http://geocities./v/p/feature. > html> > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 Great post Margee. I agree with you 100%. Hate breeds more hate. Only through loving compassion can a positive change be made. I am very excited for you in that you are going to be reunited with your son. You must be overjoyed!! Sincerely, -Demian - "Gearhart, Margee" <mgearhart ashtanga yoga Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:22 PM RE: ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach muslims > so much for being "enlightened." > I was not there to hear his remarks, although I am not doubting what you > heard. I just know that this is a "human" man and like all of us, is not > infallible. I personally feel that if he wishes to teach ashtanga with the > ultimate goal of being enlightened and becoming one with God, then perhaps > he should go back to class himself. > > I have been fortunate and blessed to have been born and raised in the United > States and have not had to deal with the issues that many have faced over > their religious views. I do know that God created all equal, regardless of > color or nationality or religion. I personally, know that when I get up > each day I ask myself at the end of the day "how did I show my love for God > today?" > I work everyday with Indians, Pakistanians and Muslims. My boss was Jewish > and my husband is of German decent. They are my friends and my family. We > cannot go around blaming others for what some "fanatic" choose to do. > The greatest commandment of God is to love one another. Not an easy thing > to do, especially when there is reason to hate. > > My son will be pulling into his port on saturday after being over by > afghanistan for the past seven months. I am blessed, he is returning when > others haven't. If I was teaching yoga and a muslim came to my class to > learn, it would be my duty to open my door and show the love of God to > another human. > > Margee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Hello All, I am currently in Mysore India. Thought the internet connection here is extremely slow which has limited my time on the computer, I just wanted to respond to this discussion. I came to Mysore with certain expectations all of which have been shattered. Guruji is not so well respected here and there are many reaons for this. One is the matter of which you are speaking. I agree with the one response that as a human we are all fallible. This is for sure, but it certainly is quite disappointing. It has simply served to reinforce my path which is of the more traditional nature of my yoga practice. I have found a wonderful and loving teacher to help me continue my own spiritual path, of which asana is only a very small part. As I said, connection is slow so I'll am writing an article. Once it is finished I'll send it along for anyone interested. It will also be posted on my website (www.yogabound.com) once I am sure of how and what I want to say. While it is important to speak one's truth, it is important to me that I am trying to also see things from all perspectives, objectively and without judgement. In love, peace and happiness, Deb --- "Gearhart, Margee" <mgearhart wrote: > so much for being "enlightened." > I was not there to hear his remarks, although I am > not doubting what you > heard. I just know that this is a "human" man and > like all of us, is not > infallible. I personally feel that if he wishes to > teach ashtanga with the > ultimate goal of being enlightened and becoming one > with God, then perhaps > he should go back to class himself. > > I have been fortunate and blessed to have been born > and raised in the United > States and have not had to deal with the issues that > many have faced over > their religious views. I do know that God created > all equal, regardless of > color or nationality or religion. I personally, > know that when I get up > each day I ask myself at the end of the day "how did > I show my love for God > today?" > I work everyday with Indians, Pakistanians and > Muslims. My boss was Jewish > and my husband is of German decent. They are my > friends and my family. We > cannot go around blaming others for what some > "fanatic" choose to do. > The greatest commandment of God is to love one > another. Not an easy thing > to do, especially when there is reason to hate. > > My son will be pulling into his port on saturday > after being over by > afghanistan for the past seven months. I am > blessed, he is returning when > others haven't. If I was teaching yoga and a muslim > came to my class to > learn, it would be my duty to open my door and show > the love of God to > another human. > > Margee > > > > > drdaryl [sMTP:no_reply] > > Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:43 PM > > ashtanga yoga > > ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach > muslims > > > > Here is the post he was referring to: > > > > At the risk of REALLY getting in over my head > here, I just want to > > correct a misperception many make about Guruji. > Just this past May, in > > conference Guruji shared his opinions about > Muslims and then stated > > unequivocally, "I will not teach a Muslim yoga. > Many have come to my > > doors over the years and I have turned them all > away. I will teach a > > German, I will teach Australian, I will teach > Japanese, but I will not > > teach a Muslim." > > > > There was one young woman from New York whose > father was Muslim, and > > she got up and very generously said to Guruji, > "Guruji, I have to > > leave. I am very upset by what you just said. My > father is a Muslim > > and is a kind, peaceloving man. Not all Muslims > are as you describe > > them, and the statements that you made are > incorrect. I don't think > > you should have said what you said, so I have to > leave now. I think > > today is a very sad day." After she left, there > was silence in the > > room for a few minutes during which no one could > look at each other, > > and a few people cried. Even Guruji looked > troubled. Then, students > > started asking him questions about slokas from the > Gita and what they > > should eat and how they should sleep again without > anyone addressing > > what he had just said. > > > > As you can imagine, this was a very damaging > experience for the woman > > affected most directly and for many of us present. > Several people > > stopped practicing with him that day. > > > > So, I can't say with any firsthand knowledge what > Guruji would do if > > an untouchable wanted to have yoga classes from > him, but I think it is > > definitely inaccurate to say that now anyone can > do it regardless of > > whatever, etc. There is definitely prejudice in > Pattabhi Jois's shala, > > a prejudice which is freely expressed should the > subject come up. > > Whether you choose to call him a bigot or not is > probably a personal > > matter. Guruji may be a loveable man, but he is > not a perfect being, > > he is just like the rest of us. > > > > Also, one argument that was made while I was there > was that this was > > India and that "we" should respect the > difficulties that indigenous > > people experience there, that this conflict is > thousands of years old > > and that we just need to accept it. However, I can > say, as an Indian > > and as one who discussed this incident with my > family there, that no, > > not all Indians share Guruji's views about > Muslims, and that many > > believe that such views should not be put forward > in the context of > > teaching others. > > > > --- > > > > The link does work, it was just cut in the middle, > simply put them > > together Sis. > > > > Brother Brahman-Atmananda > > <http://www/angelfire.com/yt/kr> > > > > ashtangayoga, "yogini_shakti" > <Yogini_Shakti> wrote: > > > This link is not working. Perhaps you could > supply another link, or > > > cut & paste the comments?. > > > > > > Om Shanti ... > > > Yogini Shakti > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > <http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > > > 0955:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/*http://geocities./v/p/feature. > > html> > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <>. > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Debra- I look forward, with great anticipation, on what you have to say from Mysore. I do hope that you experience many wonderful things there besides yoga. Regarding my post yesterday and after thinking some on it, I do have to say, that I have not walked in his shoes and do not know his reasons for his feelings. I just know that as an individual who believes soley in Christ, it is my duty to look beyond a man's religion, color or sexual preference and to show all the gentleness, kindness and compassion that I can. I teach this daily to my three children and I truly would like to believe that I am doing a halfway decent job at practicing what I preach. Maybe it is time for everyone to stop and examine if what they are doing (or not doing) is truly what God would want them to do. With regards, Margee > > debra bobier [sMTP:debbobier] > Friday, August 16, 2002 12:47 AM > ashtanga yoga > RE: ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach muslims > > Hello All, > > I am currently in Mysore India. Thought the internet > connection here is extremely slow which has limited my > time on the computer, I just wanted to respond to this > discussion. I came to Mysore with certain expectations > all of which have been shattered. Guruji is not so > well respected here and there are many reaons for > this. One is the matter of which you are speaking. I > agree with the one response that as a human we are all > fallible. This is for sure, but it certainly is quite > disappointing. It has simply served to reinforce my > path which is of the more traditional nature of my > yoga practice. I have found a wonderful and loving > teacher to help me continue my own spiritual path, of > which asana is only a very small part. As I said, > connection is slow so I'll am writing an article. Once > it is finished I'll send it along for anyone > interested. It will also be posted on my website > (www.yogabound.com) once I am sure of how and what I > want to say. While it is important to speak one's > truth, it is important to me that I am trying to also > see things from all perspectives, objectively and > without judgement. > > In love, peace and happiness, > > Deb > --- "Gearhart, Margee" <mgearhart wrote: > > so much for being "enlightened." > > I was not there to hear his remarks, although I am > > not doubting what you > > heard. I just know that this is a "human" man and > > like all of us, is not > > infallible. I personally feel that if he wishes to > > teach ashtanga with the > > ultimate goal of being enlightened and becoming one > > with God, then perhaps > > he should go back to class himself. > > > > I have been fortunate and blessed to have been born > > and raised in the United > > States and have not had to deal with the issues that > > many have faced over > > their religious views. I do know that God created > > all equal, regardless of > > color or nationality or religion. I personally, > > know that when I get up > > each day I ask myself at the end of the day "how did > > I show my love for God > > today?" > > I work everyday with Indians, Pakistanians and > > Muslims. My boss was Jewish > > and my husband is of German decent. They are my > > friends and my family. We > > cannot go around blaming others for what some > > "fanatic" choose to do. > > The greatest commandment of God is to love one > > another. Not an easy thing > > to do, especially when there is reason to hate. > > > > My son will be pulling into his port on saturday > > after being over by > > afghanistan for the past seven months. I am > > blessed, he is returning when > > others haven't. If I was teaching yoga and a muslim > > came to my class to > > learn, it would be my duty to open my door and show > > the love of God to > > another human. > > > > Margee > > > > > > > > drdaryl [sMTP:no_reply] > > > Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:43 PM > > > ashtanga yoga > > > ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach > > muslims > > > > > > Here is the post he was referring to: > > > > > > At the risk of REALLY getting in over my head > > here, I just want to > > > correct a misperception many make about Guruji. > > Just this past May, in > > > conference Guruji shared his opinions about > > Muslims and then stated > > > unequivocally, "I will not teach a Muslim yoga. > > Many have come to my > > > doors over the years and I have turned them all > > away. I will teach a > > > German, I will teach Australian, I will teach > > Japanese, but I will not > > > teach a Muslim." > > > > > > There was one young woman from New York whose > > father was Muslim, and > > > she got up and very generously said to Guruji, > > "Guruji, I have to > > > leave. I am very upset by what you just said. My > > father is a Muslim > > > and is a kind, peaceloving man. Not all Muslims > > are as you describe > > > them, and the statements that you made are > > incorrect. I don't think > > > you should have said what you said, so I have to > > leave now. I think > > > today is a very sad day." After she left, there > > was silence in the > > > room for a few minutes during which no one could > > look at each other, > > > and a few people cried. Even Guruji looked > > troubled. Then, students > > > started asking him questions about slokas from the > > Gita and what they > > > should eat and how they should sleep again without > > anyone addressing > > > what he had just said. > > > > > > As you can imagine, this was a very damaging > > experience for the woman > > > affected most directly and for many of us present. > > Several people > > > stopped practicing with him that day. > > > > > > So, I can't say with any firsthand knowledge what > > Guruji would do if > > > an untouchable wanted to have yoga classes from > > him, but I think it is > > > definitely inaccurate to say that now anyone can > > do it regardless of > > > whatever, etc. There is definitely prejudice in > > Pattabhi Jois's shala, > > > a prejudice which is freely expressed should the > > subject come up. > > > Whether you choose to call him a bigot or not is > > probably a personal > > > matter. Guruji may be a loveable man, but he is > > not a perfect being, > > > he is just like the rest of us. > > > > > > Also, one argument that was made while I was there > > was that this was > > > India and that "we" should respect the > > difficulties that indigenous > > > people experience there, that this conflict is > > thousands of years old > > > and that we just need to accept it. However, I can > > say, as an Indian > > > and as one who discussed this incident with my > > family there, that no, > > > not all Indians share Guruji's views about > > Muslims, and that many > > > believe that such views should not be put forward > > in the context of > > > teaching others. > > > > > > --- > > > > > > The link does work, it was just cut in the middle, > > simply put them > > > together Sis. > > > > > > Brother Brahman-Atmananda > > > < <http://www/angelfire.com/yt/kr>> > > > > > > ashtangayoga, "yogini_shakti" > > <Yogini_Shakti> wrote: > > > > This link is not working. Perhaps you could > > supply another link, or > > > > cut & paste the comments?. > > > > > > > > Om Shanti ... > > > > Yogini Shakti > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > < > <http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > > > > > > > > 0955:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/* > <http://geocities./v/p/feature.> > > > html> > > > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service > > > < <>>. > > > > > > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > <http://www.hotjobs.com> > > > Sponsor > > > <http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > 0955:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/*http://geocities./v/p/feature. > html> > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought." Basho - "yogini_shakti" <Yogini_Shakti > To me this boils down to: Are we trying to 'be' the method or the > teacher? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 "if a blind man follows a blind man, they will both fall" Take what you need and leave the rest. amen. I still believe it is his responsibility as such a great teacher to all to practice what he teaches. Margee > > Demian Meyer [sMTP:dmeyer] > Friday, August 16, 2002 11:17 AM > ashtanga yoga > Re: ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach muslims > > "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they > sought." > > Basho > > > - > "yogini_shakti" <Yogini_Shakti > > > To me this boils down to: Are we trying to 'be' the method or the > > teacher? > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > <http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > 0955:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/*http://geocities./v/p/feature. > html> > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Yes I do too. If a man does not practice what he teaches, his words have no substance. -Demian - "Gearhart, Margee" <mgearhart ashtanga yoga Friday, August 16, 2002 11:20 AM RE: ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach muslims > "if a blind man follows a blind man, they will both fall" > > Take what you need and leave the rest. amen. > > I still believe it is his responsibility as such a great teacher to all to > practice what he teaches. > Margee > > > > > Demian Meyer [sMTP:dmeyer] > > Friday, August 16, 2002 11:17 AM > > ashtanga yoga > > Re: ashtanga yoga Re: guruji won't teach muslims > > > > "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they > > sought." > > > > Basho > > > > > > - > > "yogini_shakti" <Yogini_Shakti > > > > > To me this boils down to: Are we trying to 'be' the method or the > > > teacher? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > <http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > > 0955:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/*http://geocities./v/p/feature. > > html> > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <>. > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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