Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 I have read alot of what you have and I agree with your synopsis of it. I, personally, (and these are my own feelings) feel that I want to learn the Mysore way. I want to learn the poses the correct way, the way they are written and taught, but I also know the limitations on my body due to my structure and age. The hardest part of this practice has been learning to let go of not being able to obtain an asana in the correct manner. I am instructed today, as I have been for the past two years by my teacher, to just keep practicing it daily and little by little the position will come. I have struggled so many times with my own ego and need to move forward in the practice that I have forgotten why I was there in the first place. After 9-11 and saying goodbye to my son to Afghanistan, I did not practice for over 5 months. It was then that I truly realized what the yoga was about and what it brought to my life. It wasn't about following the asanas exactly to the t and not deviating. It was about the inner strength I was able to find and the physical strength to get me through the dark nights when no words were coming forth from my son for weeks. It was about changing from within and that is what the Ashtanga yoga brought to my life. I truly believe that if we were to ask P.Jois if he would change anything from the day he started teaching to today, we would all be surprised by the response we would hear. Life brings changes, that is a fact, and sometimes we will learn that something we thought was so great for us, isn't and then we will change to make things better. I have heard of a woman's back being broken by P.Jois (as I am saying, I only heard this). If this is true do you think that PJ is still putting students into the position that caused that injury? I don't, regardless of what he did before. Again, I have made some small adjustments/modifications to a few of the asanas and in the end have achieved greater success with them. I would hate to think that I turned someone off or away from the wonderful benefits of Ashtanga just because they needed to modify a position for a bit. What a disservice to humanity. Margee > > mandydale [sMTP:mandydale] > Monday, September 16, 2002 2:17 PM > ashtanga yoga > ashtanga yoga Ashtanga Vinyasa and modifications > > Hi everyone - > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, it > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and isn't) > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga Vinyasa > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our actual > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip this > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, in > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this group. > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and that > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge passes from > one person to the next. > > Let me explain a bit further. > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the early age > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until 1952. > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa system > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, and > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there are > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > approach. > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his guru, > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age of 16. > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as taught > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very different in > methodology and approach. > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with distinct and > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the same > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do not* > teach the same exact method? > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different approaches to > different students, because he felt that no one approach would work > perfectly for all. > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, he > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his students > at the time. > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar and > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think this > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of these > teachings, and how they vary. > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished teachers -- > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to asana > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even interpretation > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but is, in > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him in > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit only > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David Swenson, > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and Dena > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > practice. > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, ugly. > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply impossible for > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And interpretation > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to be > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all know too > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of a > difference in interpretation. > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as well. > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga system > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also those > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' teachings but > also translate the teachings differently than the traditionalists. > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity by > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation of > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager to hear > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater consciousness > The light in me salutes the light in you, > --ak > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 I can do almost all the asanas in the primary series except janusirsasana c, marichiasana D, supta kurmasana, garbapidasana. I do the whole primary series modifing these asanas. Do you think that I have to stop in janusirsasana C until I´m able to do it the right way, or I should continue modifing and one day it will come? - Gearhart, Margee 'ashtangayoga' Monday, September 16, 2002 4:20 PM RE: ashtanga yoga Ashtanga Vinyasa and modifications I have read alot of what you have and I agree with your synopsis of it. I, personally, (and these are my own feelings) feel that I want to learn the Mysore way. I want to learn the poses the correct way, the way they are written and taught, but I also know the limitations on my body due to my structure and age. The hardest part of this practice has been learning to let go of not being able to obtain an asana in the correct manner. I am instructed today, as I have been for the past two years by my teacher, to just keep practicing it daily and little by little the position will come. I have struggled so many times with my own ego and need to move forward in the practice that I have forgotten why I was there in the first place. After 9-11 and saying goodbye to my son to Afghanistan, I did not practice for over 5 months. It was then that I truly realized what the yoga was about and what it brought to my life. It wasn't about following the asanas exactly to the t and not deviating. It was about the inner strength I was able to find and the physical strength to get me through the dark nights when no words were coming forth from my son for weeks. It was about changing from within and that is what the Ashtanga yoga brought to my life. I truly believe that if we were to ask P.Jois if he would change anything from the day he started teaching to today, we would all be surprised by the response we would hear. Life brings changes, that is a fact, and sometimes we will learn that something we thought was so great for us, isn't and then we will change to make things better. I have heard of a woman's back being broken by P.Jois (as I am saying, I only heard this). If this is true do you think that PJ is still putting students into the position that caused that injury? I don't, regardless of what he did before. Again, I have made some small adjustments/modifications to a few of the asanas and in the end have achieved greater success with them. I would hate to think that I turned someone off or away from the wonderful benefits of Ashtanga just because they needed to modify a position for a bit. What a disservice to humanity. Margee > > mandydale [sMTP:mandydale] > Monday, September 16, 2002 2:17 PM > ashtanga yoga > ashtanga yoga Ashtanga Vinyasa and modifications > > Hi everyone - > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, it > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and isn't) > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga Vinyasa > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our actual > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip this > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, in > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this group. > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and that > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge passes from > one person to the next. > > Let me explain a bit further. > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the early age > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until 1952. > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa system > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, and > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there are > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > approach. > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his guru, > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age of 16. > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as taught > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very different in > methodology and approach. > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with distinct and > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the same > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do not* > teach the same exact method? > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different approaches to > different students, because he felt that no one approach would work > perfectly for all. > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, he > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his students > at the time. > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar and > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think this > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of these > teachings, and how they vary. > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished teachers -- > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to asana > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even interpretation > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but is, in > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him in > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit only > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David Swenson, > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and Dena > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > practice. > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, ugly. > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply impossible for > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And interpretation > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to be > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all know too > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of a > difference in interpretation. > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as well. > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga system > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also those > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' teachings but > also translate the teachings differently than the traditionalists. > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity by > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation of > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager to hear > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater consciousness > The light in me salutes the light in you, > --ak > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Sponsor ashtanga yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 When I first saw a tape of Mino doing ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I said wow! I gotta have it. I have since viewed Inyengar, Jois, Swenson, et al...WOW! I knew that at 285lbs and 54" in the waist, I would not by my own physical limitations achieve the level of practice these masters had...not right away. I began with little steps (as in, crawl before you walk) and I drew my efforts toward the goal of full ashtanga practice from many other areas. Poses restricted to pregnant women (well, technically, I was pregnant, lol), weak backs, etc., all built around the Sun Salutation suggested to me by Senor Pinche Wey. I had to modify. Today, I am 190lbs and 37 1/4" in the waist. My upward dog doesn't look like upward walrus, but like upward cobra. I'm still modifying, but I am slowly but gradually dropping those modifications because the some of the asanas are beginning to happen to me and for me before I do the modified pose. My GOAL is the full primary series as taught by Jois and I am getting. I don't have a teacher. I have tapes and a 3-D map of the series in a spare bedroom. When I can reasonably get through the series without any modification, then I will have saved the money I need to travel to the nearest astanga studio and practice for two weeks. From there? Who knows, maybe Mysore, heck, I am only 54 yrs old. --- mandydale <mandydale wrote: > Hi everyone - > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, > it > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and > isn't) > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga > Vinyasa > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our > actual > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip > this > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, > in > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this > group. > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and > that > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge > passes from > one person to the next. > > Let me explain a bit further. > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the > early age > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until > 1952. > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa > system > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, > and > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there > are > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > > approach. > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his > guru, > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age > of 16. > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as > taught > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very > different in > methodology and approach. > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with > distinct and > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the > same > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do > not* > teach the same exact method? > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different > approaches to > different students, because he felt that no one approach would > work > perfectly for all. > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, > he > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his > students > at the time. > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar > and > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think > this > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of > these > teachings, and how they vary. > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished > teachers -- > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to > asana > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even > interpretation > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but > is, in > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him > in > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit > only > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David > Swenson, > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and > Dena > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and > Iyengar > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > practice. > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, > ugly. > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply > impossible for > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And > interpretation > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to > be > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all > know too > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of > a > difference in interpretation. > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as > well. > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga > system > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also > those > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' > teachings but > also translate the teachings differently than the > traditionalists. > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity > by > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation > of > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager > to hear > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater > consciousness > The light in me salutes the light in you, > --ak > > > > > News - Today's headlines http://news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 Zeke: This is awesome! Good for you! ashtangayoga, Zeke <zekes7> wrote: > When I first saw a tape of Mino doing ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I > said wow! I gotta have it. I have since viewed Inyengar, Jois, > Swenson, et al...WOW! I knew that at 285lbs and 54" in the > waist, I would not by my own physical limitations achieve the > level of practice these masters had...not right away. I began > with little steps (as in, crawl before you walk) and I drew my > efforts toward the goal of full ashtanga practice from many > other areas. Poses restricted to pregnant women (well, > technically, I was pregnant, lol), weak backs, etc., all built > around the Sun Salutation suggested to me by Senor Pinche Wey. I > had to modify. Today, I am 190lbs and 37 1/4" in the waist. My > upward dog doesn't look like upward walrus, but like upward > cobra. I'm still modifying, but I am slowly but gradually > dropping those modifications because the some of the asanas are > beginning to happen to me and for me before I do the modified > pose. My GOAL is the full primary series as taught by Jois and > I am getting. I don't have a teacher. I have tapes and a 3-D > map of the series in a spare bedroom. When I can reasonably get > through the series without any modification, then I will have > saved the money I need to travel to the nearest astanga studio > and practice for two weeks. From there? Who knows, maybe > Mysore, heck, I am only 54 yrs old. > --- mandydale <mandydale> wrote: > > Hi everyone - > > > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, > > it > > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and > > isn't) > > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga > > Vinyasa > > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our > > actual > > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip > > this > > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, > > in > > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this > > group. > > > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and > > that > > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge > > passes from > > one person to the next. > > > > Let me explain a bit further. > > > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the > > early age > > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until > > 1952. > > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa > > system > > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, > > and > > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there > > are > > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > > > > approach. > > > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his > > guru, > > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age > > of 16. > > > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as > > taught > > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very > > different in > > methodology and approach. > > > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with > > distinct and > > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the > > same > > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do > > not* > > teach the same exact method? > > > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different > > approaches to > > different students, because he felt that no one approach would > > work > > perfectly for all. > > > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, > > he > > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his > > students > > at the time. > > > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar > > and > > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think > > this > > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of > > these > > teachings, and how they vary. > > > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished > > teachers -- > > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to > > asana > > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even > > interpretation > > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but > > is, in > > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him > > in > > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit > > only > > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David > > Swenson, > > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and > > Dena > > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and > > Iyengar > > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > > practice. > > > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, > > ugly. > > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply > > impossible for > > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And > > interpretation > > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to > > be > > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all > > know too > > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of > > a > > difference in interpretation. > > > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as > > well. > > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga > > system > > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also > > those > > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' > > teachings but > > also translate the teachings differently than the > > traditionalists. > > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity > > by > > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation > > of > > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager > > to hear > > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater > > consciousness > > The light in me salutes the light in you, > > --ak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > News - Today's headlines > http://news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 WAY TO GO ZEKE!! Hopefully, some day I will be there too! Margee > > Zeke [sMTP:zekes7] > Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:08 AM > ashtanga yoga > Re: ashtanga yoga Ashtanga Vinyasa and modifications > > When I first saw a tape of Mino doing ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I > said wow! I gotta have it. I have since viewed Inyengar, Jois, > Swenson, et al...WOW! I knew that at 285lbs and 54" in the > waist, I would not by my own physical limitations achieve the > level of practice these masters had...not right away. I began > with little steps (as in, crawl before you walk) and I drew my > efforts toward the goal of full ashtanga practice from many > other areas. Poses restricted to pregnant women (well, > technically, I was pregnant, lol), weak backs, etc., all built > around the Sun Salutation suggested to me by Senor Pinche Wey. I > had to modify. Today, I am 190lbs and 37 1/4" in the waist. My > upward dog doesn't look like upward walrus, but like upward > cobra. I'm still modifying, but I am slowly but gradually > dropping those modifications because the some of the asanas are > beginning to happen to me and for me before I do the modified > pose. My GOAL is the full primary series as taught by Jois and > I am getting. I don't have a teacher. I have tapes and a 3-D > map of the series in a spare bedroom. When I can reasonably get > through the series without any modification, then I will have > saved the money I need to travel to the nearest astanga studio > and practice for two weeks. From there? Who knows, maybe > Mysore, heck, I am only 54 yrs old. > --- mandydale <mandydale wrote: > > Hi everyone - > > > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, > > it > > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and > > isn't) > > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga > > Vinyasa > > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our > > actual > > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip > > this > > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, > > in > > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this > > group. > > > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and > > that > > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge > > passes from > > one person to the next. > > > > Let me explain a bit further. > > > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the > > early age > > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until > > 1952. > > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa > > system > > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, > > and > > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there > > are > > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > > > > approach. > > > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his > > guru, > > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age > > of 16. > > > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as > > taught > > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very > > different in > > methodology and approach. > > > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with > > distinct and > > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the > > same > > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do > > not* > > teach the same exact method? > > > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different > > approaches to > > different students, because he felt that no one approach would > > work > > perfectly for all. > > > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, > > he > > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his > > students > > at the time. > > > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar > > and > > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think > > this > > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of > > these > > teachings, and how they vary. > > > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished > > teachers -- > > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to > > asana > > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even > > interpretation > > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but > > is, in > > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him > > in > > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit > > only > > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David > > Swenson, > > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and > > Dena > > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and > > Iyengar > > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > > practice. > > > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, > > ugly. > > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply > > impossible for > > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And > > interpretation > > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to > > be > > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all > > know too > > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of > > a > > difference in interpretation. > > > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as > > well. > > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga > > system > > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also > > those > > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' > > teachings but > > also translate the teachings differently than the > > traditionalists. > > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity > > by > > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation > > of > > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager > > to hear > > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater > > consciousness > > The light in me salutes the light in you, > > --ak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > News - Today's headlines > <http://news.> > > > > Sponsor > > > > <http://rd./M=234081.2377872.3805271.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > 0955:HM/A=1223726/R=2/id=noscript/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;4547220;7 > 007303;v?http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?ad=01> > > <http://us.adserver./l?M=234081.2377872.3805271.2225242/D=egroupm > ail/S=:HM/A=1223726/rand=119815115> > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 ..... and we are all with you, in spirit if not in body. I think with a conference like this, we have to imagine a virtual class, with us all sweating and straining and breathing, and urging each other on. And it works! ashtangayoga, Zeke <zekes7> wrote: > When I first saw a tape of Mino doing ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I > said wow! I gotta have it. I have since viewed Inyengar, Jois, > Swenson, et al...WOW! I knew that at 285lbs and 54" in the > waist, I would not by my own physical limitations achieve the > level of practice these masters had...not right away. I began > with little steps (as in, crawl before you walk) and I drew my > efforts toward the goal of full ashtanga practice from many > other areas. Poses restricted to pregnant women (well, > technically, I was pregnant, lol), weak backs, etc., all built > around the Sun Salutation suggested to me by Senor Pinche Wey. I > had to modify. Today, I am 190lbs and 37 1/4" in the waist. My > upward dog doesn't look like upward walrus, but like upward > cobra. I'm still modifying, but I am slowly but gradually > dropping those modifications because the some of the asanas are > beginning to happen to me and for me before I do the modified > pose. My GOAL is the full primary series as taught by Jois and > I am getting. I don't have a teacher. I have tapes and a 3-D > map of the series in a spare bedroom. When I can reasonably get > through the series without any modification, then I will have > saved the money I need to travel to the nearest astanga studio > and practice for two weeks. From there? Who knows, maybe > Mysore, heck, I am only 54 yrs old. > --- mandydale <mandydale> wrote: > > Hi everyone - > > > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, > > it > > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and > > isn't) > > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga > > Vinyasa > > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our > > actual > > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip > > this > > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, > > in > > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this > > group. > > > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and > > that > > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge > > passes from > > one person to the next. > > > > Let me explain a bit further. > > > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the > > early age > > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until > > 1952. > > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa > > system > > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, > > and > > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there > > are > > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > > > > approach. > > > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his > > guru, > > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age > > of 16. > > > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as > > taught > > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very > > different in > > methodology and approach. > > > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with > > distinct and > > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the > > same > > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do > > not* > > teach the same exact method? > > > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different > > approaches to > > different students, because he felt that no one approach would > > work > > perfectly for all. > > > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, > > he > > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his > > students > > at the time. > > > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar > > and > > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think > > this > > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of > > these > > teachings, and how they vary. > > > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished > > teachers -- > > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to > > asana > > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even > > interpretation > > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but > > is, in > > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him > > in > > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit > > only > > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David > > Swenson, > > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and > > Dena > > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and > > Iyengar > > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > > practice. > > > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, > > ugly. > > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply > > impossible for > > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And > > interpretation > > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to > > be > > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all > > know too > > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of > > a > > difference in interpretation. > > > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as > > well. > > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga > > system > > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also > > those > > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' > > teachings but > > also translate the teachings differently than the > > traditionalists. > > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity > > by > > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation > > of > > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager > > to hear > > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater > > consciousness > > The light in me salutes the light in you, > > --ak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > News - Today's headlines > http://news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Zeke! A hearty Ole! to you on your practice and on your discipline. Send El Senor a private message at Senor_pinche_wey if you wish to disucss further. I am glad that my advice to just start doing one single sun salutation has resulted in such a fruitful practice. Just one piece of advice. Don't touch a piece of bread or pasta and cut out the booze--if you haven't already.....The pound will continue to be shed. Yoga is in part about lightness in spirit and mind. Glad it is going well. It might have saved your life. El Senor Pinche Wey Ole! ashtangayoga, Zeke <zekes7> wrote: > When I first saw a tape of Mino doing ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I > said wow! I gotta have it. I have since viewed Inyengar, Jois, > Swenson, et al...WOW! I knew that at 285lbs and 54" in the > waist, I would not by my own physical limitations achieve the > level of practice these masters had...not right away. I began > with little steps (as in, crawl before you walk) and I drew my > efforts toward the goal of full ashtanga practice from many > other areas. Poses restricted to pregnant women (well, > technically, I was pregnant, lol), weak backs, etc., all built > around the Sun Salutation suggested to me by Senor Pinche Wey. I > had to modify. Today, I am 190lbs and 37 1/4" in the waist. My > upward dog doesn't look like upward walrus, but like upward > cobra. I'm still modifying, but I am slowly but gradually > dropping those modifications because the some of the asanas are > beginning to happen to me and for me before I do the modified > pose. My GOAL is the full primary series as taught by Jois and > I am getting. I don't have a teacher. I have tapes and a 3-D > map of the series in a spare bedroom. When I can reasonably get > through the series without any modification, then I will have > saved the money I need to travel to the nearest astanga studio > and practice for two weeks. From there? Who knows, maybe > Mysore, heck, I am only 54 yrs old. > --- mandydale <mandydale> wrote: > > Hi everyone - > > > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, > > it > > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and > > isn't) > > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga > > Vinyasa > > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our > > actual > > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip > > this > > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, > > in > > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this > > group. > > > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and > > that > > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge > > passes from > > one person to the next. > > > > Let me explain a bit further. > > > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the > > early age > > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until > > 1952. > > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa > > system > > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, > > and > > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there > > are > > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > > > > approach. > > > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his > > guru, > > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age > > of 16. > > > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as > > taught > > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very > > different in > > methodology and approach. > > > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with > > distinct and > > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the > > same > > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do > > not* > > teach the same exact method? > > > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different > > approaches to > > different students, because he felt that no one approach would > > work > > perfectly for all. > > > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, > > he > > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his > > students > > at the time. > > > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar > > and > > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think > > this > > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of > > these > > teachings, and how they vary. > > > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished > > teachers -- > > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to > > asana > > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even > > interpretation > > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but > > is, in > > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him > > in > > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit > > only > > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David > > Swenson, > > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and > > Dena > > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and > > Iyengar > > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > > practice. > > > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, > > ugly. > > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply > > impossible for > > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And > > interpretation > > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to > > be > > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all > > know too > > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of > > a > > difference in interpretation. > > > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as > > well. > > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga > > system > > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also > > those > > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' > > teachings but > > also translate the teachings differently than the > > traditionalists. > > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity > > by > > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation > > of > > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager > > to hear > > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater > > consciousness > > The light in me salutes the light in you, > > --ak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > News - Today's headlines > http://news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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