Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 To address senor_pinche_wey's comments, Not only is Amanda quite qualified (and just about to study with P. Jois next weekend), her class follows Mr. Jois' primary series exactly . . . my description is a "friendly" way of presenting the class to those unfamiliar with this type of practice. (Come to my town and you'll see what I mean . . . this is not Berkeley or S.F.). And I'd advise you to try her class before you make assumptions like the one you make by looking at my website! I have never heard such judgemental "yogis" in my life. Fortunately, none of the teachers who teach at my studio have this sort of attitude! I think you may need to practice some karma yoga, my friend . . . your asana may be excellent, but your "practice" doesn't seem to extend beyond the mat. In our studio, we welcome every individual, whether young, old, healthy, or infirm. And if they can't do an arm balance or a handstand today, we teach them a preparatory pose so they can do one tomorrow. I'm sorry that you may feel that this somehow corrupts the practice of yoga; I call it ahimsa and compassion . . .. something in which I feel your comment betrays you are sorely lacking. Namaste, Brianna ashtanga yoga ------ There are 3 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. ! senor_pinche_wey 2. Re: Ashtanga Vinyasa and modifications senor_pinche_wey 3. Flights to India Michelle Kelner ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:26:11 -0000 senor_pinche_wey ! Brianna, Judging by the website for your school http://www.eden-yoga.com/index.html It looks like the teachers there should be working on their own practices a bit more. Ashtanga is hard work and requires discipline and dedication. The "if it feels good do it" school of thought dooesn't really apply. Your definition of your ashtanga power yoga class "Ashtanga/Power Yoga: This vigorous, aerobic style of yoga is characterized by a specific sequence of flowing poses, with little or no rest in between. Class begins with several rounds of classical Sun Salutations, followed by the Ashtanga "primary series" of poses. Students should have knowledge of the basic yoga poses to participate." is a little bit narrow. The teacher, Amanda Kelso does not appear to be qualified. Why throw in the word "ashtanga" when you are really teaching a vinayas a flow class. I hope you take the opportunity to study with Guruji when he is in San Francisco next week. It should be a humbling and enlightening experience. Ole! ashtangayoga, Brianna Politzer Stevens wrote: > > Hello all, and namaste! > I just joined this group and am amazed at the discussion . . . I own a small yoga studio where we teach many styles, including "Ashtanga/Vinyasa Flow Yoga" which is, what I believe you are all discussing when you say "Ashtanga" yoga . . (but as folks have said here, "Ashtanga" is really a misnomer, being the name for the entire eight-limbed path of yoga . . . seven limbs of which have nothing to do with asana, the primary series, or P. Jois). > I just wanted to remind you all of something . .. It's not really about the asanas . . . The asanas are a tool to bring you to a higher level . . . . nothing more. And, in fact, hatha yoga (any yoga involving movement) was developed with the specific goal of preparing and training the body and the mind for meditation. I was taught that the goal of yoga was to go inward, allow the spirit to emerge, and become one's own teacher. The poses you do and the order you do them in, I believe, is practically irrelevant. As long as your students are tuning into their breath and slowly opening their minds to a new way of thinking, they are doing yoga, and you have done your job as a teacher. > I know that yoga has changed dramatically since its creation over 5,000 years ago . . . would you say that the yoga done by the ancients was not proper or correct? Of course not. Also, there have been many yogis (Gandhi, for example) who have never practiced asana. > Do what feels good to you and your students, and you're doing the right thing . . . whether it's "pure" or not . . . once you open the door, the light starts to come pouring in! > > > "First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do." > > --Epictetus, Greek philosopher > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Sat, 21 Sep 2002 19:17:28 -0000 senor_pinche_wey Re: Ashtanga Vinyasa and modifications Zeke! A hearty Ole! to you on your practice and on your discipline. Send El Senor a private message at Senor_pinche_wey if you wish to disucss further. I am glad that my advice to just start doing one single sun salutation has resulted in such a fruitful practice. Just one piece of advice. Don't touch a piece of bread or pasta and cut out the booze--if you haven't already.....The pound will continue to be shed. Yoga is in part about lightness in spirit and mind. Glad it is going well. It might have saved your life. El Senor Pinche Wey Ole! ashtangayoga, Zeke wrote: > When I first saw a tape of Mino doing ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I > said wow! I gotta have it. I have since viewed Inyengar, Jois, > Swenson, et al...WOW! I knew that at 285lbs and 54" in the > waist, I would not by my own physical limitations achieve the > level of practice these masters had...not right away. I began > with little steps (as in, crawl before you walk) and I drew my > efforts toward the goal of full ashtanga practice from many > other areas. Poses restricted to pregnant women (well, > technically, I was pregnant, lol), weak backs, etc., all built > around the Sun Salutation suggested to me by Senor Pinche Wey. I > had to modify. Today, I am 190lbs and 37 1/4" in the waist. My > upward dog doesn't look like upward walrus, but like upward > cobra. I'm still modifying, but I am slowly but gradually > dropping those modifications because the some of the asanas are > beginning to happen to me and for me before I do the modified > pose. My GOAL is the full primary series as taught by Jois and > I am getting. I don't have a teacher. I have tapes and a 3-D > map of the series in a spare bedroom. When I can reasonably get > through the series without any modification, then I will have > saved the money I need to travel to the nearest astanga studio > and practice for two weeks. From there? Who knows, maybe > Mysore, heck, I am only 54 yrs old. > --- mandydale wrote: > > Hi everyone - > > > > There has been quite a bit of noise recently (well, actually, > > it > > seems to be ongoing here) on this group regarding what is (and > > isn't) > > considered proper when engaging in a practice of Ashtanga > > Vinyasa > > Yoga, as taught by P. Jois. Instead of harboring on our > > actual > > difference of opinions, I like to suggest that we instead flip > > this > > discussion on its head to become more philosophical, open and, > > in > > turn, an experience that we can all learn from instead of the > > dogmatic and pedantic rhetoric that currently fills this > > group. > > > > So I have a discussion point that I would like to propose--and > > that > > is the concept of change and interpretation, as knowledge > > passes from > > one person to the next. > > > > Let me explain a bit further. > > > > Shri K. Pattabhi Jois acknowledges that his guru was Shri T. > > Krishnamacharya. Jois studied with Krishnamacharya at the > > early age > > of 12 in 1927, and continued to study with his guru until > > 1952. > > Krishnamacharya and Jois, worked out the Ashtanga Vinyasa > > system > > based on the Yoga Korunta . > > > > T.K.V. Desikachar, was the son and also a student of T. > > Krishnamacharya, and began learning yoga at a very early age, > > and > > teaching at the age of 13. His teaching method, while there > > are > > striking similiarities to Jois' approach, is a unique teaching > > > > approach. > > > > BKS Iyengar also acknowledges that T. Krishnamacharya was his > > guru, > > and was introduced to Krishnamacharya's yoga system at the age > > of 16. > > > > As anyone knows who has taken classes in the various styles as > > taught > > by Iyengar, Jois or Desikachar -- these classes are very > > different in > > methodology and approach. > > > > So what gives? How can three different teachers, with > > distinct and > > diverse teaching methods *all* study with, and acknowledge the > > same > > guru -- Krishnamacharya? Why is it that these teachers *do > > not* > > teach the same exact method? > > > > Here is my hypothesis: Krishnamacharya taught different > > approaches to > > different students, because he felt that no one approach would > > work > > perfectly for all. > > > > Or another hypothesis: As Krishnamacharya continued to teach, > > he > > emphasized different aspects of yoga, as appropriate for his > > students > > at the time. > > > > Or does someone here have other ideas as to why Jois, Iyengar > > and > > Desikachar have such wildly varying teaching methods? I think > > this > > group would benefit from the discussion of the origins of > > these > > teachings, and how they vary. > > > > Regardless, the very notion that three very distinguished > > teachers -- > > Jois, Desikachar and Iyengar -- teach distinct approaches to > > asana > > yoga indicates that modifications/adaptation, or even > > interpretation > > of knowledge passed on from one's guru not only occurs, but > > is, in > > fact, inevitable. Even students of Jois who studied with him > > in > > 1970's and 80's note that his approach is different (albeit > > only > > slightly) now. Change is inevitable. > > > > That would mean that the folks at Jivamukti in NYC, David > > Swenson, > > and yes, even It's Yoga, are like Lino Miele, Tim Miller and > > Dena > > Kingsberg--all are doing exactly what Jois, Desikachar and > > Iyengar > > have done with their learnings -- passing their knowledge and > > experience on to others in their unique interpretation of the > > practice. > > > > And interpretation is where things get sticky, and sometimes, > > ugly. > > Interpretation can wreak havoc -- because it is simply > > impossible for > > everyone to agree on the same interpretation. And > > interpretation > > stems from the ego, which allows differences between people to > > be > > highlighted rather than that which is universal. As we all > > know too > > well, wars in the past (and even impending wars) occur out of > > a > > difference in interpretation. > > > > The biggest debate of this group stems from interpretation as > > well. > > There are traditionalists who teach and study the Ashtanga > > system > > literally, and follow Jois' teachings to the T. There are also > > those > > who might be called "reformists" who incorporate Jois' > > teachings but > > also translate the teachings differently than the > > traditionalists. > > This is ultimately no different than, say, the difference of > > interpretation of Judiasm by Reformist vs. Conservatives vs. > > Orthodox, or the difference of interpretation of Christianity > > by > > Catholics vs. Protestants, (or differences in interpretation > > of > > Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.). > > > > Anyway, what does everyone else think about this? I'm eager > > to hear > > other's responses/thoughts/digressions. > > > > > > As we continue to grow closer to the light of greater > > consciousness > > The light in me salutes the light in you, > > --ak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > News - Today's headlines > http://news. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Michelle Kelner Flights to India I am planning a trip to Kerala in December to participate in Lino Miele's workshop. Can anyone suggest ways to find cheap flights from New York - the best I have been able to find through a travel agent is $1700 (!!!!) which is a bit much for a yogi on a budget. New DSL Internet Access from SBC & http://sbc. ______________________ ______________________ Your use of is subject to "First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do." --Epictetus, Greek philosopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 Looks like SPW is back in full force. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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