Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Hello Everyone, I sent this to Miguel earlier. I had meant to post it to the group. As you will see, I am new to Ashtanga. You will also see that I am not an Ashtanga Purist. As to props, when they are helpful and help avoid injury they are good things. The full pose is always the most comfortable way of being in an Asana, but getting half way into a pose can be uncomfortable. If a prop helps you hold a pose comfortably, with better alignment than you could achieve otherwise, use it. As soon as it become unnecessary it should be dropped. Remember that there are approximations of the Asanas that require no props, so if you can do one of these you don't need a prop, indeed the prop is then in the way. Props also interfere with the smooth flow of Vinyasa and Vinyasa is key to Ashtanga. One final comment, I understand that in the Mysore classes the teacher does a lot of hands on adjustments. People talk about being put into, and taken out, of the Asanas. Isn't that using the teacher as a kind of prop? Love and Blessing, Ed Here is the letter I mentioned above. Hi Miguel, I read Shakti Lalita's answer to your question. I would add that if this pose is too hard on your knees you can put a small cushion or yoga block under your sit bones to take some of the strain off your knees. As to books. Yes, I know the Larry Shultz manual at itsyoga.com. I have it tacked up along the wall near the ceiling in my Yoga room. I don't think it is enough for someone new to Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga in particular. I have been relying on The videos of David Swenson and his book. They are excellent, in my opinion. I especially appreciate the book. I saw the video first and that was my introduction to Astanga. I would not have been able to grasp the vinyasa without at least seeing it. Prior to that I did yoga Sivananda style. My last good run of practice was longer ago than I care to think about. My current practice is about six months old now. I started with Sivananda style sun salutations. I had to start slow since I am not twenty-two. I am forty-three. I was so stiff in the neck that it was becoming dangerous to drive. I couldn't turn my head fast enough. Shortly after I started I was introduced to Ashtanga by a friend who had done some Ashtanga while in Bali. I feel thousands of times better now. I do the Primary Series at least a couple of times a week and one of David Swenson's short forms on other days. Some days I do asanas have practiced in the past. You are very lucky to be starting Ashtanga so young. You should look at Yoga as something you will be doing the rest of your life. Therefore there is no hurry to get into Padmasana. You will be sitting in Padmasana for fifty or sixty years. For now, take it to a stretch that is tight, but not too tight. Hold it there, do Ujayi Breath, Inhale into length, Exhale deeper into the pose. I have several other Ashtanga books as well as a lot of other Yoga books form other traditions. The first book I got was Beryl Bender Bitch's Power Yoga. It was pretty good, but I like Swenson's book better. I also have Jois' Yoga Mala. I have just dipped into it so far. I have gotten a lot out of all I have read. More the philosophy behind Ashtanga than help with the physical practice which is not to say that there are not precise discussions of the asanas in the book. It is just that I don't think they would help me do them without already knowing how to do them. I expect this book to help bring my understanding of the Asanas to maturity. In the meantime the Swenson book is my bible for practice. I think his asanas are things of beauty and the approximations of the asanas for people like myself who can't get all the way into many of the asanas are wonderful. He has a lot of advice for beginners. One thing I would like to stress is that you should really do your best to get some qualified instruction. Find someone to show you how to do sun salutations. Without those you won't know how to do the vinyasa, the connecting movements. If you can find a class or something, even better. The bandhas don't require Padmasana though it requires the bandhas, as all the asanas do. You are right that the bandhas are easer to do in Padmasana. And they are very beneficial when they are used while in Padmasana. For now get as close as you comfortably can. Watch your breath. If it is even and deep your asana is more than likely okay. If it is ragged, if you hold your breath, you have gone too far into the pose and had better back off to a more comfortable position. Enjoy that for a while. Always do your poses in the moment. Not what you want to do, not what you think you ought to be able to do, not what you did yesterday, go into the pose with full attention to the body at that moment. I have just now taken a look at the Larry Shultz manual again and it is more detailed than I remember it being. It should be very helpful to you. I still recommend getting Swenson's book and videos. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Dear Lawrence, Sorry to here about your shoulder. It isn't in the Primary Series, but have you thought about swimming a bit? Nice range of motion exercise that isn't as hard on the muscles as a handstand. I am no expert on injury so take what I have to say with as much salt as you need, but do as much as you can and don't cross the line into "I wish I hadn't done that." You can work as hard as you like on the spiritual side of it. Remember that Asana is only one of the eight limbs of Ashtanga Yoga. Love and Blessing, Ed --- lawrence romanosky <lromanosky wrote: > That's what I do too, except with foam blocks-and > over > time I use fewer layers. In David Swenson's > practice > manual, which I really like, he devotes a page to > the > use of props: blocks, straps etc., and basically > says > do what works for you. He also compares various > types > of yoga to trees in the forest: "there are many > different kinds but they are all reaching for the > light". I'm against any rigid interpretation of > Ashtanga or any other type of Yoga-It's *your* > practice. > > But what do I know, I hurt my shoulder > again...arrahh! > I'm going to have to modify my practice for a while > to let it heal properly i.e. I have to stay away > from > sun salutaions and vinyasas, so it will be a > challenge > to come up with something that resembles the primary > series...A friend suggests this happened for a > reason, > and that was to get me more focused on the spiritual > side instead of the gymnastics > Namaste, Lawrence. > > --- Susie <asimser wrote: > > Margee, > > I read the same thing about using a pillow for > that > > particular > > pose to help in doing it progressively so the > knees > > can adjust > > slowly. > > Susie > > > > FBL- > > I must inform you that Sharath was the one who > told > > me about using the > > pillow at night to help condition my body. > > I am assuming since he learned from PJ himself, > and > > trains with him daily > > that he is a bit more experienced with this advice > > then you. I never said > > that this was "part of Ashtanga," I said it was a > > good way to prepare. > > And, by the way, it helped me tremendously, as > well > > as others. > > I assumed the object of this board was for > > information and for > > encouragement. I don't see much encouragement > from > > you, just alot of > > criticism. If you have children, i do hope you > > praise as much as you > > criticize. > > Have a nice day. > > Margee > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus. > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 No, I do not feel that the teacher is a "prop." They are someone who when adjusting you, helps your body to feel the proper alignment of the asana. With the slight adjustments, or even at times the more difficult adjustments, they can help you push yourself just a bit more to your edge and when that is taking place your body will have the opportunity to imprint the feel of the asana. Your body will know the next time you do that particular asana how it should feel and you can adjust yourself then. I hope I am making myself clear on that. Again, as others have stated, just do the practice daily, without props, and to the best of your ability. That is all it is about. You will improve and it will get easier. Good luck Margee > > edvannoy <edvannoy [sMTP:edvannoy] > Saturday, January 04, 2003 4:44 AM > ashtanga yoga > ashtanga yoga Re: Beginner and Padmasana... > > Hello Everyone, > I sent this to Miguel earlier. I had meant to post it to the > group. As you will see, I am new to Ashtanga. You will also see > that I am not an Ashtanga Purist. As to props, when they are > helpful and help avoid injury they are good things. The full pose > is always the most comfortable way of being in an Asana, but getting > half way into a pose can be uncomfortable. If a prop helps you hold > a pose comfortably, with better alignment than you could achieve > otherwise, use it. As soon as it become unnecessary it should be > dropped. Remember that there are approximations of the Asanas that > require no props, so if you can do one of these you don't need a > prop, indeed the prop is then in the way. Props also interfere with > the smooth flow of Vinyasa and Vinyasa is key to Ashtanga. > One final comment, I understand that in the Mysore classes the > teacher does a lot of hands on adjustments. People talk about being > put into, and taken out, of the Asanas. Isn't that using the teacher > as a kind of prop? > Love and Blessing, Ed > > Here is the letter I mentioned above. > > Hi Miguel, > I read Shakti Lalita's answer to your question. I > would add that if this pose is too hard on your knees > you can put a small cushion or yoga block under your > sit bones to take some of the strain off your knees. > > As to books. Yes, I know the Larry Shultz manual at > itsyoga.com. I have it tacked up along the wall near > the ceiling in my Yoga room. I don't think it is > enough for someone new to Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga in > particular. I have been relying on The videos of > David Swenson and his book. They are excellent, in my > opinion. I especially appreciate the book. I saw the > video first and that was my introduction to Astanga. > I would not have been able to grasp the vinyasa > without at least seeing it. Prior to that I did yoga > Sivananda style. My last good run of practice was > longer ago than I care to think about. My current > practice is about six months old now. I started with > Sivananda style sun salutations. I had to start slow > since I am not twenty-two. I am forty-three. I was > so stiff in the neck that it was becoming dangerous to > drive. I couldn't turn my head fast enough. Shortly > after I started I was introduced to Ashtanga by a > friend who had done some Ashtanga while in Bali. I > feel thousands of times better now. I do the Primary > Series at least a couple of times a week and one of > David Swenson's short forms on other days. Some days > I do asanas have practiced in the past. You are very > lucky to be starting Ashtanga so young. You should > look at Yoga as something you will be doing the rest > of your life. Therefore there is no hurry to get into > Padmasana. You will be sitting in Padmasana for fifty > or sixty years. For now, take it to a stretch that> > is tight, but not too tight. Hold it there, do Ujayi > Breath, Inhale into length, Exhale deeper into the > pose. > > I have several other Ashtanga books as well as a lot > of other Yoga books form other traditions. The first > book I got was Beryl Bender Bitch's Power Yoga. It > was pretty good, but I like Swenson's book better. I > also have Jois' Yoga Mala. I have just dipped into it > so far. I have gotten a lot out of all I have read. > More the philosophy behind Ashtanga than help with the > physical practice which is not to say that there are > not precise discussions of the asanas in the book. It > is just that I don't think they would help me do them > without already knowing how to do them. I expect this > book to help bring my understanding of the Asanas to > maturity. > In the meantime the Swenson book is my bible for > practice. I think his asanas are things of beauty and > the approximations of the asanas for people like > myself who can't get all the way into many of the > asanas are wonderful. He has a lot of advice for > beginners. > One thing I would like to stress is that you should > really do your best to get some qualified instruction. > Find someone to show you how to do sun salutations. > Without those you won't know how to do the vinyasa, > the connecting movements. If you can find a class or > something, even better. > The bandhas don't require Padmasana though it > requires the bandhas, as all the asanas do. You are > right that the bandhas are easer to do in Padmasana. > And they are very beneficial when they are used while > in Padmasana. For now get as close as you comfortably > can. Watch your breath. If it is even and deep your > asana is more than likely okay. If it is ragged, if > you hold your breath, you have gone too far into the > pose and had better back off to a more comfortable > position. Enjoy that for a while. Always do your > poses in the moment. Not what you want to do, not what > you think you ought to be able to do, not what you did > yesterday, go into the pose with full attention to the > body at that moment. > I have just now taken a look at the Larry Shultz > manual again and it is more detailed than I remember > it being. It should be very helpful to you. I still > recommend getting Swenson's book and videos. > Ed Sponsor > > <http://rd./M=234081.2821106.4184440.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:H\ M/A=1328027/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;4870030;7586687;u?http://www.amer\ iquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?ad=01> > <http://us.adserver./l?M=234081.2821106.4184440.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=\ :HM/A=1328027/rand=493192429> > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service <>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Miguel- I was not inferring that you use the pillow during your Ashtanga practice, but rather at another time, say if you were watching tv and you want to open your hip area and work on the knees. That is when placing a pillow under the butt, while watching tv, will help you prepare for when you do Ashtanga. Margee > > n3wskin <miguel_tereno [sMTP:miguel_tereno] > Saturday, January 04, 2003 1:35 AM > ashtanga yoga > ashtanga yoga Re: Beginner and Padmasana... > > In a way, I believe FBL is saying something correct, and that if you > practise other poses you will *eventually* get into padmasana > without effort (since I´ma beginner) and what she said really > opened my eyes so I could see that I really need to practise the > first series, and when I want to meditate or do some bandhas, I > simply cross my legs (what I´ve already been doing). On the other > hand, sure, why not just try and make ashtanga as smooth and easy > as possible (given that we´re talking about a beginner), by using > props? > > Thank you all for sharing your experiences, and peace!) > > Miguel > > > ashtanga yoga, "Gearhart, Margee" > <mgearhart@s...> wrote: > > FBL- > > I must inform you that Sharath was the one who told me about using > the > > pillow at night to help condition my body. > > I am assuming since he learned from PJ himself, and trains with > him daily > > that he is a bit more experienced with this advice then you. I > never said > > that this was "part of Ashtanga," I said it was a good way to > prepare. > > And, by the way, it helped me tremendously, as well as others. > > I assumed the object of this board was for information and for > > encouragement. I don't see much encouragement from you, just alot > of > > criticism. If you have children, i do hope you praise as much as > you > > criticize. > > Have a nice day. > > Margee > > > > > > > > funkybadlady [sMTP:no_reply] > > > Friday, January 03, 2003 1:42 AM > > > ashtanga yoga > > > ashtanga yoga Re: Beginner and Padmasana... > > > > > > Miguel, > > > > > > This USED to be an Ashtanga Yoga message board, but now it > > > seems that there is very little Ashtanga going on and a lot of > bad > > > advice. There is no pose in Ashtanga that involves sitting on a > > > pillow, and there is no need to do an added "counter pose" as > > > the resident quack yogini shakti has advised you to do. The > > > system of the primary series is a very good one and all you need > > > to do is follow the program as it is laid out. There are no > pillows > > > used in Ashtanga. Just go as slow as you need to go to avoid > > > too much wear and tear on your knees as your hips will slowly > > > open up enough so your knees will not hurt in padmasana any > > > more. > > > > > > In the mean time sit with your legs crossed instead of > > > padmasana and practice the primary series. Eventually your > > > hips will open and your knees won't hurt any more. Forget about > > > the "pillow conditioning" and the crazy out of sequence pose > > > Quacky Shakti told you to do. Not necessary and heedless. > > > > > > If you don't do the correct method of Ashtanga, don't give > advice > > > here without prefacing it with a disclaimer. > > > > > > FBL > > > > > > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga, "Gearhart, Margee" < > > > mgearhart@s...> wrote: > > > > Miguel- > > > > This is a very good pose for conditioning. It is > uncomfortable > > > at first. > > > > Put a small pillow under your butt for leverage and try to sit > like > > > that for > > > > a few minutes adding a few more minutes every few days. > > > After awhile you > > > > will be able to sit like that for awhile without any > discomfort. > > > Like most > > > > things, it just takes time. > > > > Margee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > n3wskin <miguel_tereno@n...> > > > [sMTP:miguel_tereno@n...] > > > > > Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:02 PM > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > > ashtanga yoga Re: Beginner and Padmasana... > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the reply. Isn´t this the pose you are talking > > > about? > > > > > > > > > > << <http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/490_1.cfm>>> > > > > > > > > > > I tried this one and it also hurts my knees, when I sit down. > > > > > > > > > > Miguel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga, "Shakti Lalita > > > > > <Yogini_Shakti>" <Yogini_Shakti> wrote: > > > > > > Miguel wrote [[.. padmasana, it hurts on the knees. [snip] > Is > > > > > there > > > > > > an easier alternate position?]] > > > > > > ** All joints - from small digits to huge balls - are > points of > > > > > > injury. Proceed cautiously. Otherwise, an all too often, > or > > > > > unknown > > > > > > counterpose to Padmasan is 'sitting warrior'. > > > > > > > > > > > > When the knees & hips are turned inwards in padmasan, > > > the > > > > > alternate, > > > > > > opposing movement must be addressed for affirmative > > > healing & > > > > > > recuperation. This countermove is 'sitting warrior; which > > > rotates > > > > > > the knee & hips in the opposite direction. Hence, Pose .. > > > > > > Counterpose. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sitting warrior is sitting with the legs to the sides of > the > > > > > thighs, > > > > > > toes pointed backwards, tailbone on the earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Shanti ... > > > > > > Shakti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << <http://rd./M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/>> > > > D=egroupweb/S=170506 > > > > > 0955:HM/A=1327985/R=0/*< <http://ad.doubleclick.net/>> > > > clk;4870024;7586687;x?htt > > > > > p://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?ad= > > > 01> > > > > > > > > > > << <http://us.adserver./l?M=>> > > > 234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupm > > > > > ail/S=:HM/A=1327985/rand=367158758> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service > > > > > << <>>>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > < <http://rd./M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=1> > 70506 > > > > 0955:HM/A=1327986/R=0/* <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;4870027;7586687;> > a?htt > > > p://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?ad=01> > > > > > > < <http://us.adserver./l?> > M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupm > > > ail/S=:HM/A=1327986/rand=345683372> > > > > > > > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service > > > < <>>. > > > > > Sponsor > > > <http://rd./M=234081.2821106.4184440.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=170506 > 0955:HM/A=1328027/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;4870030;7586687;u?htt > p://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?ad=01> > > <http://us.adserver./l?M=234081.2821106.4184440.1925585/D=egroupm > ail/S=:HM/A=1328027/rand=151606532> > > > ashtanga yoga > > > > Terms of Service > <>. 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