Guest guest Posted August 4, 2000 Report Share Posted August 4, 2000 well, In the same light and reason as u have put it, I would like to tell you two things, however, this is something which i know and I MAY BE WRONG. The mahanarayana bhaga, which you have quoted kama karoti naham katha...etc, is to be read with Sayana bhashya, and Niruktha , the science of Interpretation of the vedas and also the Poorva mimsa sutras of Jaimini. This is primarily used to identify the jiva with the concept of Hiranyagarbha etc..... The reason i am quoting this is Kshudra prayogas, necessarily mean Those prayogas which are mainly and solely Intended for the Ill of others. I draw your attention to Manyu suktha, Soma suktha etc.. of the Rig veda, and a host of Shatru maarana mantras in yajur, sama and Atharvana. They are explicit to mention a prayer to Indra for the defeat of rivals, procurement of wealth more than ones foe etc.... I agree with Sri Ravi that there is nothing purely Kshudra but depends on the mental disposition of the sadhaka, but some of them are targetted specially at destruction,another for example is Trailokya vashikarana kavacha, the Mahashoda Nyasa in Srividya, practices by none other than Bhaskaracharya. The uTKILANA MANTRAS IN THE KILA BHAGA OF Rig veda etc... The vairinashana Kavacha, has some of the most explicit and gross forms of Himsa enshrined in it, Mama shatruun samharaya samharaya manam sthambaya buddhim vinashaya gudam udharam dapaya uddapaya etc and ends saying etat kavacham patenityam Samare shatru vinashanam Shvasura jamaatya pransahanam meaning kill my enemies, stop his buddhi, burn his stomach and lower back etc.. Those who read this daily will cause enemies on thebattle front to be routed, this brings quarrel between the Father-in-law and son-in-law etc.... Well the kavacha has mohana marana etc.... when reading a mantra we nee to see the Phala shruthi, whether it has any iota of loka kalyana in it, well pothe the Preface and phalashruthi to the kavacha seem to indicate only prayogas for killing a king, a boss, anothers children and para dhara, or others wives. well, This is as i know it again, may be the learned members of this group can throw more knowledge on it. Namaste gp miinaaxii tanaya Ambaa-L Friday, August 04, 2000 3:16 AM prayoga In the context of mahAkALi vairi naashana kavacha, Ganesh remarked that it is a xudra prayoga. I have not read that text, in general, I am wary of tantric works. But in a general context, the prayoga can be kshudra or uttama depending on the devotee's attitude. Take mahAlaxmi ashhTakam for instance, below I quote the relevant verses from the Jaguar site. This is a text I had committed to memory long ago. But I never paid that much importance to phala shruti. But once in while I used wonder why, ekakAle paThennityaM mahApApavinAshanam.h . dvikAla.n yaH paThennitya.n dhanadhAnyasamanvitaH .. trikAlaM yaH paThennityaM mahAshatruvinAshanam.h . mahAlakshmiirbhavennityaM prasanna varadA shubhA .. after reading thrice all that happens is destruction of one's enemies (mahaa shatru vinaashanam). Is it not mean? Prof. Murthy wrote his insight on this few years back in Advaita-L. Which makes it wonderfully uttama. The enemies mentioned here are the kAma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, and mAtsarya. The six deadly ones. One can say kAma is worst of all, as krodha is a reaction to unfulfilled kAma. They torment us even after we say kAmonakArshin namo namaH | kamonakarishit kamaH karoti nAham karomi kamaH karta naaham karta kaamaH kaarayita naaham kaarayita eshha te kaama kaamaaya svaaha || and so on. Here (in the ashhTakam) the devotee is praying to God to destroy the six deadly enemies who spring from the dark avidya and torments the devotees. With this reading of mahAshatru vinaashanam, whole things become supremely beautiful prayer (Thanks to Murthy_garu for his wonderful insight). I guess there must be some scope in the mahAkALi vairi nashana kavacha for a postive interpretation as well. However, till one develops enormous purity and knowledge, it is safe to stay away from tantra. That is my feeling. Ganesh, a very knowledgeable person like you should write more often to the list. We all will be benefited. ===== ambaaL daasan Ravi sharaNaagata raxakii nivEyani sadaa ninnu nammiti miinaaxii http://www.geocities.com/kaamaakshi Kick off your party with Invites. http://invites./ AUM shrImAtre namaH Archives : / : http://www.geocities.com/kaamaakshi/ : http://www.escribe.com/religion/ambaa/ Contact : miinalochanii & lotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2000 Report Share Posted August 4, 2000 Dear Friends, From a practical point of view, prayOga is justifiable. Even if it happens to be Kshudra prayOga. In reality, a kshudra prayOga by an exponent of the Black Arts is very potent. Not everybody has the power or faith to overcome it. If the prayOgi or his client had very evil intentions, then that prayOga has to be neutralised and the agency has to be destroyed in the process. In this reference, one may resort to prayOgas of White Art. But a kshudra prayOga is best overcome by a like-kind. There was a controversy sometime ago, when Kirubaanandha Vaariyaar SwamigaL did not condone the useage of 'Kandhar Shashti Kavacam', because the words in it were against ahimsa. But then who would show ahimsa to a fierce muni or raakshas which has been sent to finish you off? To destroy them in the name of God, for the service of good, will be, in a sense, a maRakkaruNai of sorts. Sometimes the goal will justify the means. Remember....Lord krishNa had to show the harsher path in the Bharatha Yuddha. Daithya hanthryai Daithaya samaNyai Dhaksha Yagnya vinaasinyai Para manthra VibEdinyai She shows the path. In the path of Dharma/Karma, somethings are justifiable. Regards JayBee ============================== Kick off your party with Invites. http://invites./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2000 Report Share Posted August 4, 2000 Dear ones, We are all discussing about things which should not be the concern any sri vidhayavan. A true sadhak of the divine mother has the highest negative and highest positive vibrations in him, which can absorb anything that is transmitted to him by anyone. Because a srividhya upasaka transends light barrier and is in the energy conclave. Mantras can attain help only through the light barrier but it cannot enter the energy barrier.When one travels beyond mantra, yantra and tantra, where is the question of evil or good.There is only one thing is silence in silence. In respect of dushprayoga, a real sri vidhya upasaka by his actions, sadhana etc., always transmits the positive energy to everyone and absorbs the negative energy - after all Divine mother is "anandhaa" and "anandha dhayini" and similarly she cannot be without the negative aspect to absorb them all and digest. one has to learn to go beyond mere mantra and that is the Maha Gurupadhuka - the energy factor that is around everyone and omnipresent, omnicient and omnipotent. love to all. S.SHANGARANARAYANAN - B.J. Ganesh prasad Thursday, August 03, 2000 11:00 PM Re: prayoga well, In the same light and reason as u have put it, I would like to tell you two things, however, this is something which i know and I MAY BE WRONG. The mahanarayana bhaga, which you have quoted kama karoti naham katha...etc, is to be read with Sayana bhashya, and Niruktha , the science of Interpretation of the vedas and also the Poorva mimsa sutras of Jaimini. This is primarily used to identify the jiva with the concept of Hiranyagarbha etc..... The reason i am quoting this is Kshudra prayogas, necessarily mean Those prayogas which are mainly and solely Intended for the Ill of others. I draw your attention to Manyu suktha, Soma suktha etc.. of the Rig veda, and a host of Shatru maarana mantras in yajur, sama and Atharvana. They are explicit to mention a prayer to Indra for the defeat of rivals, procurement of wealth more than ones foe etc.... I agree with Sri Ravi that there is nothing purely Kshudra but depends on the mental disposition of the sadhaka, but some of them are targetted specially at destruction,another for example is Trailokya vashikarana kavacha, the Mahashoda Nyasa in Srividya, practices by none other than Bhaskaracharya. The uTKILANA MANTRAS IN THE KILA BHAGA OF Rig veda etc... The vairinashana Kavacha, has some of the most explicit and gross forms of Himsa enshrined in it, Mama shatruun samharaya samharaya manam sthambaya buddhim vinashaya gudam udharam dapaya uddapaya etc and ends saying etat kavacham patenityam Samare shatru vinashanam Shvasura jamaatya pransahanam meaning kill my enemies, stop his buddhi, burn his stomach and lower back etc.. Those who read this daily will cause enemies on thebattle front to be routed, this brings quarrel between the Father-in-law and son-in-law etc.... Well the kavacha has mohana marana etc.... when reading a mantra we nee to see the Phala shruthi, whether it has any iota of loka kalyana in it, well pothe the Preface and phalashruthi to the kavacha seem to indicate only prayogas for killing a king, a boss, anothers children and para dhara, or others wives. well, This is as i know it again, may be the learned members of this group can throw more knowledge on it. Namaste gp miinaaxii tanaya Ambaa-L Friday, August 04, 2000 3:16 AM prayoga In the context of mahAkALi vairi naashana kavacha, Ganesh remarked that it is a xudra prayoga. I have not read that text, in general, I am wary of tantric works. But in a general context, the prayoga can be kshudra or uttama depending on the devotee's attitude. Take mahAlaxmi ashhTakam for instance, below I quote the relevant verses from the Jaguar site. This is a text I had committed to memory long ago. But I never paid that much importance to phala shruti. But once in while I used wonder why, ekakAle paThennityaM mahApApavinAshanam.h . dvikAla.n yaH paThennitya.n dhanadhAnyasamanvitaH .. trikAlaM yaH paThennityaM mahAshatruvinAshanam.h . mahAlakshmiirbhavennityaM prasanna varadA shubhA .. after reading thrice all that happens is destruction of one's enemies (mahaa shatru vinaashanam). Is it not mean? Prof. Murthy wrote his insight on this few years back in Advaita-L. Which makes it wonderfully uttama. The enemies mentioned here are the kAma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, and mAtsarya. The six deadly ones. One can say kAma is worst of all, as krodha is a reaction to unfulfilled kAma. They torment us even after we say kAmonakArshin namo namaH | kamonakarishit kamaH karoti nAham karomi kamaH karta naaham karta kaamaH kaarayita naaham kaarayita eshha te kaama kaamaaya svaaha || and so on. Here (in the ashhTakam) the devotee is praying to God to destroy the six deadly enemies who spring from the dark avidya and torments the devotees. With this reading of mahAshatru vinaashanam, whole things become supremely beautiful prayer (Thanks to Murthy_garu for his wonderful insight). I guess there must be some scope in the mahAkALi vairi nashana kavacha for a postive interpretation as well. However, till one develops enormous purity and knowledge, it is safe to stay away from tantra. That is my feeling. Ganesh, a very knowledgeable person like you should write more often to the list. We all will be benefited. ===== ambaaL daasan Ravi sharaNaagata raxakii nivEyani sadaa ninnu nammiti miinaaxii http://www.geocities.com/kaamaakshi Kick off your party with Invites. http://invites./ AUM shrImAtre namaH Archives : / : http://www.geocities.com/kaamaakshi/ : http://www.escribe.com/religion/ambaa/ Contact : miinalochanii & lotus AUM shrImAtre namaH Archives : / : http://www.geocities.com/kaamaakshi/ : http://www.escribe.com/religion/ambaa/ Contact : miinalochanii & lotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2000 Report Share Posted August 4, 2000 Harih Om, I feel that himsa on our part is never justified, also not to pray to HER to use it. We should exercise ahimsa, not just in deeds, but in thoughts and feelings and transform our tendencies. They say, the mark of a true saint is that he is INCAPABLE of anger. We may pray for help, even better practice sharanagati. If we trust MOTHER, then we should trust that SHE knows best what to do or not to do. It is enough that we concentrate our heart on HER. Taking care of us is HER task. If SHE decites to use "himsa" it is upto HER. I say "himsa" because we can never cal HER acts himsa. She always acts out of pure love, never anger. Pure love may require an act that looks to us like himsa, but that is our limited human view, because we are so blind. But nothing justifies our resorting to the means of himsa. Nothing. Om Om Om Vishvarupa > > jay bee [jaybee555] > vrijdag, 4 augustus 2000 10:30 > > PrayOga > > > Dear Friends, > > From a practical point of view, prayOga is > justifiable. > Even if it happens to be Kshudra prayOga. > In reality, a kshudra prayOga by an exponent of the > Black Arts is very potent. Not everybody has the power > or faith to overcome it. If the prayOgi or his client > had > very evil intentions, then that prayOga has to be > neutralised > and the agency has to be destroyed in the process. > In this reference, one may resort to prayOgas of > White > Art. But a kshudra prayOga is best overcome by a > like-kind. > There was a controversy sometime ago, when > Kirubaanandha > Vaariyaar SwamigaL did not condone the useage of > 'Kandhar Shashti > Kavacam', because the words in it were against ahimsa. > But then who would show ahimsa to a fierce muni or > raakshas > which has been sent to finish you off? > To destroy them in the name of God, for the service > of > good, will be, in a sense, a maRakkaruNai of sorts. > Sometimes the goal will justify the means. > Remember....Lord krishNa had to show the harsher path > in the Bharatha Yuddha. > > Daithya hanthryai > Daithaya samaNyai > Dhaksha Yagnya vinaasinyai > Para manthra VibEdinyai > > She shows the path. > In the path of Dharma/Karma, somethings are > justifiable. > > Regards > > JayBee > > ============================== > > > > Kick off your party with Invites. > http://invites./ > > > > AUM shrImAtre namaH > Archives : / > : http://www.geocities.com/kaamaakshi/ > : http://www.escribe.com/religion/ambaa/ > Contact : miinalochanii & > lotus > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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