One question

[Guest guest]

I

Who really knows? Who can presume to tell it?

Whence was it born? Whence issued this creation?

Even the Gods came after its emergence.

Then who can tell from whence it came to be?

 

II

.....such is the Lord who is worshipped constantly by

holy ones. It is he indeed who is worshipped in

various ways and various forms such as Siva, Visnu...

 

III

Aham rudrebhir vasubisharami aham adityairutha...

 

IV

thvam brahma thvam vishnusthvamrudrasthvam....

 

V

The MahaSwamiji's talk on Bhagavat Gita

http://www.kamakoti.org/main/audio.html

 

The list is endless

 

In my opinion (does it mater? even to me?):

It is okay to equate Siva to that Cosmic Person : that

infinite Consciousness..

 

for we cannot visualise it we need a form to meditate

By meditating on the form, the learned say that we can

visualise beyond the form (Siva, Visnu, ...), hence

the form is just a means to the end and not the end in

it self...

 

But it is incorrect to say that :

"ONLY Lord Shiva is the greatest and no other God or

Goddess can EQUAL him for he ALONE is the ultimate

God."

1.

for there are "no other Gods or Goddess" they are a

means of fathoming the unfathomable.

2.

it is our Ego which makes us say "no other God or

Goddess can EQUAL him", for we are super imposing our

Ego on to the Supreme Being which is nirakara ,

nirguna etc...

 

3.

There is no basis (either Vedic or Pauranic) to make

such a judgement, the Gods did not compete (this is

may not be true as I seem to remember reading some

Amar Chitra Katha comics ages ago...)

 

4.

It just forms another basis for fights between the

various sects Vishnavites, Shaivaites etc...

 

The other day my Iyangar friend was commenting on the

fact that in the Lagunyas of Rudram we say "padayaoh

visnusthistathu" thus demeaning "his God" I have no

easy way to explain it suffice to say "his God" is

also my God!

 

I am sure there are texts pauranic and tantric (I

myself have read some) but not vedic which suggest,

nay enforce that their form of worship is most

potent...

my knowledge is too shallow and I am to dense for such

diverse interpretations...

 

I ask your forgiveness for this lengthy and perhaps

inappropriate mail

 

I do not know If this is accurate or not or whether it

is taking poetic license to the extreme but my learned

Guru once said that it occurs in the Rig Veda

"We created God who created us"

But it is beyond my comprehension and I will not even

contemplate on it at this juncture...

 

Devi Saranam

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I personally think that everyone regards their ishta as the ultimate since they

are just different personalities of that one great God. Like white light

consists of many other colours so God or shiva would be the make up of all of

them.

 

My ishta is Shiva and mulitple texts that I know of praise him as the Ultimate

God and I think of him in that way. at the end I guess it would be opinionated

rather then factual to deem a diety as the Ultimate. Since Shiv just is a

collection of all the dieties a being who has all of those qualties.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I see it like this,

 

That one God has all the qualities of the 336 million dieties and that one God

is refered to as Tat the formless, brahmin the everything and Shiva the

Ultimate. The three main attributes is the akara, the ukara and the makara the

creator, destructer and the preserver.

 

The dieties like the goddess shakthi symbolise one or more of the GOD's

personalitiy or attribute but places more emphasis on it like the mother

obviously represents the mother aspect, rudra the destructive aspect, Vishnu the

preserving and pervading aspect and Brahma the creating aspect.

 

Shiva had said by the Vedas to have all these aspects and that is why I think is

the one I worship ot place the most emphasis on. Shakthi comes from shiva thus

the bija Hrim symbolising that shakthi comes form Shiva's heart according to the

Tripura Tapini Upanishad.

 

Shakthi is also the female form of shiva not only his consort therefore they are

the same but are of different genders to generate the positve and nagative which

is the true cause of existance via quantum physics. The actual structure of an

atom is so and the neutron being the ardhanarishwara. This is where is confusion

comes according to vedas Shiva is both the positive and everything havin all the

other qualities. Later according to tantra this is justified. See postive and

all the qualities in the sense that he bestows all the qualities of Gods in a

man in such a way that the man does not get harmed or negate. This is why he is

also given the title of Mahadeva because of this boon also known as shiva

prasad. Him being Bhole nath is also because of this since most of the

attributes can be taken advantage of.

 

Aadi Shakthi is a collective entity of all the forms of the three goddess mostly

comprising or related to Chamundi she too gives this quality but also negates in

the sense that she negates the sins of her devotees because of this cleansing

process some feel great pain this according to mythology is what is known as

"pariksha" or testing. They both posses these qualities but give it in different

ways that is where the ranking comes if one is applicable. Shiva also posses

this and can give his devotees a hard time as well but only to purify them.

Shiva is the collective term of all the Gods but personified as Male aadi

shakthi is the same but personified female. That is way the Lingam has the two

yonis and is thus an example of phallic imagery. The top part representing the

male and the bottom representing the female. The egg linga is the actual union

of the two and represents that they are not different entities this is also with

the conventional linga but the egg linga makes a more obvious emphasis and is

hence known as the bhramanda.

 

So yes this is proof it dosent matter who u pray to they are the same but still

I favour lord shiva due to the positive appilication. The mother cleans too

well!!!!

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>And depending on the name that we tie,Are the

qualities of that God

change just like that?

 

What qualities?

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mr Krishnamoorthy,

 

I would appriciate some more elaboration in regards to your recent post on this

topic since I dont understand what your question is about.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dear anavadya

 

You see dieites are versatile, but there is one particular characteristic that

is their extreme. For example worshipping the goddess kali you can get rid of

sickness, bare children. But u have indrakshi for sickness and Maada Chamari or

simha parameshwari for kids. Kalika bestows the 8th siddhi and others but mostly

the aghora siddhi (the power of eradication and extremety).

 

Shiva gives perfection in everything since his characteristic is the ultimate

his gift is that of godlyness or equalling the Gods.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I am tempted to add this.

 

Shiva represents Consciousness. The ultimate. A state of IS ness. Where the

soul becomes one with the Universe.

Shakthi represents the force with which srishti-stithi-laya is being

performed. Conciousness by itself cannot act and so needs Shakthi to act.

as in - all actions of Shiva are actually performed by the Rudra roopam and

not Shiva roopam.)

 

When Godliness is reached, consciousness alone remains. That Universal

consciousness beyond all "Doing", where just the Being happens. That

consciousness and merger with that is the ultimate. This is represented by

Shiva. Not just the form but the Essence.

 

Bala sharanam

Gopi

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaaya means I bow to the infinite conciousness so there you go dear

sire the panchakshara mantra agress least to be said that fact cannot be argued.

But again this is the most important question in regards to me. Does anyone here

know the meaning of the rudra kavacha and it's tantric methods of envocation.

And what is this hrim kilakam.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Every mantra, in order to be properly invoked needs its angas orparts

They are

1. Rishi - The seer who first realised the devata through THAT mantra

2. Chandas - The metre of the mantra . By knowing this you can know whether you

are pronouncing the mantra properly (Chandashaastra is a big subject by itself)

3. The Devata.

4. The bija - The seed - The beejamantra of the mantra

5. The shakthi - The mantra through which the mantra gets its power

6. The Keelaka - The nail - the keelaka bija is that which controls the mantra

and on its removal alone the mantra attains its full potential

Then the mantra has its shadanga nyasas. The various parts of the mantra are

visualised as placed in certain parts of the hand and body.

i).......(this represents part of the mantra as it varies from mantra to mantra

it is shown as a blank) Amgushtaabhyaam Namaha - The thumb of both the palms

ii).... Tharjjaneebhyam Namaha - Forefingers

iii) ..... Madhyamaabhyaam namaha (middle finger)

iv) Anaamikaabhyaam namaha (Ring finger)

v) Kanishtikaabhyaam Namaha (little finger)

vi) Karathalakaraprushtaabhyaam Namaha - The whole palms are rubbed inside and

outside.

while mentioning Thumb the thumb is touched at the base by the forefinger and

the forefinger is moved touching the thumb to its tip. With other fingers the

movement is done with the thunm.

This is called karanyaasa

Then comes Anganyasa

The same six parts of the mantra (or the bija mantra) is recited with

a) Hrudayaaya Namaha - Placing the right clenched fist on the chest

b) ............. Shirase Swaaha - Top of the head

c)......... Shikhaayai Vaushat - base of the head behind u

d) thencrossing the hands in front of you you say .....................

Kavachaaya Hum (hum is the sound of repulsion - The Kavacha repels all evil

forces)

e) .............. Netra Trayaaya vaushat ------- the forefinger middle finger

and the ring finger touch the two eyes and the centre of the brow the place of

thid eye

and

f).........astraya Phat The forefinger and middle finger of right hand is

forcefully hit on the palm of the left hand creating an explosive noice - which

sounds like saying PHAT. That is the sound of the explosion destroying the

obstacles in the path of the upaasaka.

This is called the amganyasa

Then comes the Dhyana of the particular mantra to visualise the god/goddess

Then the Panchopachara puja of the devata that you have visualised

then comes the Mantra

followed by the dhyana, Panchopachara puja and then the amganyasa mentioned

above.

and then Rishi Chandas and devata.

This is the normal method of recitation of any mantra.

This explains what is Keelakam and what is Phat. asked by someone.

Hope my explanation is useful.

 

Kochu

 

 

 

Kalika Putra <dakinic_monk wrote:

Namah Shivaaya means I bow to the infinite conciousness so there you go dear

sire the panchakshara mantra agress least to be said that fact cannot be argued.

But again this is the most important question in regards to me. Does anyone here

know the meaning of the rudra kavacha and it's tantric methods of envocation.

And what is this hrim kilakam.

 

 

 

 

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AUM shrImAtre namaH

AUM namaH shivAya

AUM namaH shivAbhyAm

 

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[Guest guest]

I thought keelakam refers to some tantric act, the mantra furthur goes on saying

hramityadi shkathihi shahadangyasa,

 

which hram shakthi is it talking about and which refers to which anga?

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hraamityaadi means Hraam, Hreem, Hroom, Hraim, Hraum, Hraha

There are six bijas in each group.

Similerly there is thge kraam group; Klaam group etc. each will have 6 Bijas to

do the karanyasa and shadanga nyasa

Kochu

Kalika Putra <dakinic_monk wrote:

I thought keelakam refers to some tantric act, the mantra furthur goes on saying

hramityadi shkathihi shahadangyasa,

 

which hram shakthi is it talking about and which refers to which anga?

 

 

 

 

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AUM shrImAtre namaH

AUM namaH shivAya

AUM namaH shivAbhyAm

 

Archives : http://www.ambaa.org/ (Edited)

: /messages//

 

Contact : help

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dear sir,

 

The missing bijas of the rudra kavacha are the rudra bijas, I am forbidden to

tell what their indentities are but shaiva tantric scriptures outline their

indentities. Hrama is the heart bija of shakthi which contemplates on her origin

from shiva's heart

 

bhur bhuvah swah paro rajase savadhom

 

Jatavedase sunavama soma marati yato nidah haati sanah parshadati durgani

vishvanaveva sindhum

 

Tryambakam yajamahe sungandhim pushtivardhanam urvarukmiva bandhanaan mrityur

mokshaya maamritaat

 

This is the secret of the Hrim according to the tripura tapini upanishad.

 

So to me it does not make sense since this mantra is martiarchal not patriarchal

like lord rudra.

 

 

 

 

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