kaula

[Guest guest]

shrIH

Namaste,

 

, "Hitoshi Sakiomoto" <hitoshi_S1333@h...> wrote:

>The Vaishnava and Shaiva

> and both adore the dieties as the epithet of the Ultimate. These

are vedanta

> based sects

 

Not necessarily. There is tantric Shaivism(ex: Pasupata,Kashmir

Shaiva..etc..) and a type of tantric vaishnava sect(Pancharatra) also.

 

>where as Shaktha and kaula go off to the tantric worship and

> such things. I stay away from these two since goddess is also

envoked in

> occults;

 

Shakta doesnt necessarily mean tantric. But most of the time it is

tantric. Tantric doesnt mean anything bad. Only males who are dvijas

(wearing the sacred thread--yajnopavita) can do vaidic worship. the

rest of them has to do tantric worship. All non indians fall in the

second category i.e only for tantric worship..if they want to

worship...

 

>the same argument can be raised with bhairava but to what we have

> learnt this diety is more kaula then shaiva in terms of worship.

> This is where I get confused, everyone knows that one of the most

popular

> mantra to Shiva is the mrityunjaya mantra "om Tryambakam

yajamahe...." but

> did you know that the real Mrityunjaya mantra is Om Glaum Hum klim

Jum sah.

> The first is just a abstract from the rudrastatyahi of the yajur

veda wheras

> the second is the actual envokation of Mrityunjaya shiva. In this

form of

> worship the offering of blood is neccesary and therefore again is

more kaula

> worship them shaiva since my definition of shaiva is adoration of

shiva via

> vedas.

 

There is no real Mrityunjaya mantra and unreal one. One is

vaidika the other is tantrika. They are two different forms of the

mantra of the same God known as Mrityunjaya.

> many regard tantra as a rebellion to the vedic teachings since this

blood

> worship is condemned by Aadi Shankaracharya on of the highest

contempo

> authorities on the Vedas and therefore this tantric worship i dont

support.

 

Shankaracharya supported tantric worship. tantric worship in no way

means blood worship. That notion is *wrong*.

 

> In kaula Kali and Shiva is adored by the offering of blood and guts

to show

> or represent their destructive nature. Alcohol is also offered to

destroy

> negativity. Many kaula shastras say that it is conpulsory for bali

to please

> the shaiva goddesses and this bali must come from a willing being

or the

> "sadhak" it says that the offering of animals puts you in the

rebirth cycle

> on khatris can do so and shudras since they dont take vows of

piouty. A

> brahmin is not superior but takes vow of piouty and therefore can

only offer

> his/her blood.

 

Same thing: Kaula doesnt mean worship with blood or alcohol.

There are scores of kaulas who never touch any of these.

 

> The siddhanta in the chinnamasta siddhi later states that any

>.mantra with

> sacrifice with animal in it should never be taken literally. Where

it says

> cut head and put near fire pit (chandi tantric siddhi{to open the

chandi})

> there the sadhak should meditate and thing that it is his/her head

they are

> cutting and in the physical plane just use white pumkin. Many

people dont do

> this because they need excuse to eat meat but what right does man

have to

> kill something that does not belong to them. God made life and

therefore it

> is only God who decides to take it not man.

 

Animals can be killed when the scriptures prescribe. It is not a

sin in that case.

>This is why I am anti kaula

> tantra where it asks for such sacrifice. Is this Justified?

 

Yes it is. For that matter the vedas also prescribe animal

sacrifice. Saying anti kaula anti tantra is equavalent saying anti

shiva ..

> Again many great Hindu leaders were against this like sankaracharya

and

> ramakrishna but to my knowledge didnt do much.

 

Shankaracharya was *not* against the vedic rites which prescribed

animal sacrifice.

> Please before you answer I am aware of the three gunas but in

tantra

> especially kaula there is only tamasic and rajasic since the kleem

bija is

> envoked!

 

What is the basis for this(kleem bija--rajasic or whatever is

written above). I did not understand this. There is hreem bija

invoked every now and then in tantra, and many other bijas.

> Om am hreem kleem chamundaya vicche is very popular mantra but

stillI doubt

> anyone knows of it's true secret bijas.

 

There are scores of ppl who r intitiated in Chandi Navakshari. all

of them should be knowing those secret bijas if there is anything

like that. I would be nice if u can tell the group about those

*secret bijas*

 

SA.