Just a Request!

[Guest guest]

Dear Ravi:

I fully agree with you. All I said was publishing BOOKS ALREADY IN PRINT causes

no harm.

The needy get to see them that is all.

Books are for "aapatkaala". I know of places where the head does not even have

srividya, yet gives Deeksha for Rs. 50,000 or so. No shishya lakshanam, no guru

lakshanam except the prestige of the institution. So it is IMHO "aapatkaala"

now.

But, as you know, this is an ocean and however hard one tries one scratches but

a miniscule part.

It is good that you brought out the question of poorwa piithika and phalasruti

of LS. I have heard it said that Periyavar has said "It is not necessary". I

dunno where or how. I have had a long association with him starting from the age

of 16 (mine) till his death. When he was pleased to speak on LS it was He who

directed me to poorwapiithika and Phalasruti. He also said once to me "the

common people do not need it; sadhakas do."

It was He who directed me to my deekshaa Guru.

We are not on specific Gurus. For every shishya HIS GURU is all important and

supreme. HIS words are above all. Just like for every Mantra that one does

upasana of THAT is above all and one's upaasana Devata is above ALL for him.

That does not mean that other Gurus are bad other mantras are low. This concept

is dinnedinto the shishya so that he has the proper respect for the Guru and

Mantra. I for one respects all provable gurus and I respect all the mantras. But

when it comes to my own Guru - everything is subordinate to Her.

This is possible only when you have a Guru.

In this context; since we are talking to texts - will some learned member

explain the why and wherefore of self poornabhisheka procedure prescribed in

Prapancha sara sara samgraha?

And also why there is an ajnaatha gurwoham prescribed in all texts?

 

Other than this i think everyone to his belief and guru aadesha. I will stop

there

 

Kochu

 

 

 

Ravi <miinalochanii wrote:

Dear Sri Sankara Menon:

 

Whether it is a book or guru, the saadhaka should exercise all his ability

gather information and exercise his intellectual power to verify, analyze and

understand. Even if you break a rule, at least you should know that you are

breaking a rule and have some possible justification.

 

I agree with you that a guru without a proper qualification can do more harm

than a book. But we leave those things to the saadhaka's

field. It is not the position of the list to evaluate different gurus and offer

judgement. Traditionally, two things should happen -

 

a) aacharya nirupaNam -- teacher should give sufficient proof/indication about

his qualification and/or the seeker should

evaluate it.

 

b) adhikaari laxaNam -- Teacher should evaluate the qualification of the

disciple and instruct his accordingly.

 

If the teacher does not talk about this, you should ask him. There is no point

of being afraid, after all it is your life that is at stake.

Before you surrender, you should know to whom you are surrendering. The guru

shishhya relationship, is in some sense is like a marriage. It has all the ups

and downs like a marriage in the selection process.

 

As a list we give no guru referral, except that we align ourselves with shankara

maTha-s and ask people to consult either Sringeri or

Kanchi maTha. One thing I will add in the FAQ soon, that "we do not authorize

any guru and we recommend that you do not trust anyone

without doing a background check, and more so if the contact is via internet"

 

Also, I dont think as a list we authorize anyone to initiate anyone else to

anything. The next question is:

 

 

What can this list do to help?

------------------------------

 

 

Our goal is to discuss different texts and understand them. Such a process also

includes understanding what are the traditional rules

and what are the current practices. I think such a knowledge should help a

novice reader to some extent.

 

For instance, lot of people teach and say lalitaa sahasranaamam, they do not

even talk about the puurva piiThika and uttara piiThikaa. Then comes the task of

explaining it and interpreting it. I can bet that

more that half the people who say sahasranaama will not even know what its

puurva and uttara says. In contrast, that is not a case for

vishhNu sahasranaama, everybody says there. It is very long is not an excuse.

At least one should be aware that it is there.

 

 

We discussed few verses of sahasranaama's puurva (and all of trishatii's

puurva). We should formally discuss all of the puurva and

uttara, and understand them.

 

I personally think we should spend our time and make this list a rigorous text

oriented discussion list.

 

 

Ravi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsor

--

pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH

sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa .

svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM

tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h

 

www : http://www.ambaa.org/

Contact: help

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sub : Guru – Mantra – Secrecy – Media

 

 

 

 

 

I had a wonderful and brief spiritual retreat to Ramanashram -- Thiruvannamalai

.. I think during these days, I only missed this group’s lively discussion.

 

 

 

In my humble opinion the discussion on the subject is not focused as there is a

mix up of understanding a Guru , Role of guru, the secrecy of mantras,

procedures for taking diksha or initiation etc etc. Some of my thoughts are

posted as under.

 

 

 

GURU = DEITY

 

 

 

If the mantra is the sound body of the deity, who can reveal the mantra except

the deity itself. Ultimately it is the deity that leads the devotee to itself.

 

 

 

But all are not in a position to get the direct guidance from the deity. Certain

rare souls who come to earth as already prepared or perfected beings need NO

OUTSIDE HELP. They rely on inner voice , on the god within them and advance very

rapidly. But for all the others the deity acts through a human agency – THE

GURU.

 

 

 

Knowledge is handed over without a break through means of initiation. And for

this perpetual movement, continuous guidance the Tantra gives the name - AUGHA,

flood or current. The aughas are three in number – Divyaugha, Siddhaugha and

Manavaugha , the divine guides, the accomplished or semi divine companionson the

way and the moral mentors. If man is ready, he is caught in this current and led

by the current without any effort. When the seeker is earnest, the guru appears

on the scene to guide him.

 

 

 

So the GURU IS NOT A HUMAN BEING. To mistake him as such is a sure way to

SPIRITUAL DOWNFALL. He is the delegated power of the godhead on earth and to the

disciple he is god himself.

 

 

 

If mantra has to be effective it has to be initiated through a guru and the

mantra transcends to the Atma. Then by the grace of the guru all follows. If the

disciple is destined to advance far ahead, the guru’s grace and the mantra’s

forced lead him on to further gurus , so that he may acquire the knowledge at

various stages.

 

 

 

The guru must be a mantra siddha – only a lamp burning can light another. When

the mantra is sown in the disciple, as the disciple does the japa of the mantra

it grows and bears fruit.

 

 

 

The Guru at the time of initiation takes some of the bad karmas of the disciple.

 

 

 

 

 

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN MANTRA PUBLISHED IN ANY MEDIA – print, net or to

morrow it may be something as it has a very limited USE.

 

 

 

BUT – mantras learnt from books or other media being a non living non entity

with no mantra siddhi , becomes useless burdens carried on one’s head. One

perceives not, neither does, one know the essentials.

 

 

 

Purifying the mind imbibing all the various qualities of the elders in the field

can only attain Siddhi and the disciple should be drenched in the compassionate

gaze of the guru. More than his personal effort, the guru’s grace accomplishes

the sadhana.

 

 

 

He should rely entirely on the guru’s grace and be a constant servitor at his

lotus feet. The disciple SHOULD NOT LOOK AT THE WEAKNESSES of the physical

person the GURU – as Guru’s spiritual position is beyond HIS BODY.

 

 

 

I would go to the extent of saying that mantra siddhi can be obtained even from

a guru who is Bad – provided the sishya is having enough GURU – Bhakthi.

 

As paramahamsa puts it when a bad guru summoned his sishya who happened to be

across the river, which was overflowing, the shishya over looked the depth with

guru bhakthi and crossed the river. When the guru queried how he accomplished

this task, the sishya replied that while crossing he meditated on him that “

Guru is the only help”. When the bad guru out of his ego tried to do this

himself by saying “ I AM THE ONLY HELP for me “ the guru sank into the ganges.

 

 

 

In the upasana of Sri Vidya – the importance of the guru cannot be

overemphasized, where so much depends upon the guidance of the guru and the

grace of the Godess obtained by guru’s grace. Therefore “ GURU = = = AMBAAL “

 

 

 

To summarize, in SriVidya ,if one knows the importance of Guru – the aspirant

would never seek the help of any Media for spiritual progress .At the same time

there is nothing wrong in media including the NET publishing it because the

aspirant knows before hand the limitation and its limited use of learning from

it.

 

 

 

Ganapathy = = = Vijaya

 

 

Ravi <miinalochanii wrote:Dear Sri Sankara Menon:

 

Whether it is a book or guru, the saadhaka should exercise all his

ability gather information and exercise his intellectual power to

verify, analyze and understand. Even if you break a rule, at least

you should know that you are breaking a rule and have some possible

justification.

 

I agree with you that a guru without a proper qualification can do

more harm than a book. But we leave those things to the saadhaka's

field. It is not the position of the list to evaluate different gurus

and offer judgement. Traditionally, two things should happen -

 

a) aacharya nirupaNam -- teacher should give sufficient

proof/indication about his qualification and/or the seeker should

evaluate it.

 

b) adhikaari laxaNam -- Teacher should evaluate the qualification of

the disciple and instruct his accordingly.

 

If the teacher does not talk about this, you should ask him. There is

no point of being afraid, after all it is your life that is at stake.

Before you surrender, you should know to whom you are surrendering.

The guru shishhya relationship, is in some sense is like a marriage.

It has all the ups and downs like a marriage in the selection process.

 

As a list we give no guru referral, except that we align ourselves

with shankara maTha-s and ask people to consult either Sringeri or

Kanchi maTha. One thing I will add in the FAQ soon, that "we do not

authorize any guru and we recommend that you do not trust anyone

without doing a background check, and more so if the contact is via

internet"

 

Also, I dont think as a list we authorize anyone to initiate anyone

else to anything. The next question is:

 

 

What can this list do to help?

------------------------------

 

 

Our goal is to discuss different texts and understand them. Such a

process also includes understanding what are the traditional rules

and what are the current practices. I think such a knowledge should

help a novice reader to some extent.

 

For instance, lot of people teach and say lalitaa sahasranaamam, they

do not even talk about the puurva piiThika and uttara piiThikaa. Then

comes the task of explaining it and interpreting it. I can bet that

more that half the people who say sahasranaama will not even know

what its puurva and uttara says. In contrast, that is not a case for

vishhNu sahasranaama, everybody says there. It is very long is not

an excuse. At least one should be aware that it is there.

 

 

We discussed few verses of sahasranaama's puurva (and all of

trishatii's puurva). We should formally discuss all of the puurva and

uttara, and understand them.

 

I personally think we should spend our time and make this list a

rigorous text oriented discussion list.

 

 

Ravi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsor

--

pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH

sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa .

svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM

tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h

 

www : http://www.ambaa.org/

Contact: help

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ganapathy --- Vijaya

 

" Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari "

 

" Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath "

 

 

 

 

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