Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 I would like to comment on your observation that GOD CAN BE WORSHIPPED IN ANY FORM. Prior to Adi Sankara's time as people were meditating various forms, Adi Sankara re-established the " Shanmatham" -- Worship limited to six forms as revealed in our Vedas and as per this the PARA BRAHMAN can be mediated only in any of these SIX FORMS. They are ; 1. Ganapathyeem : Worship of Maha Ganapathy -- This is popular in Maharashtra 2. Kowmaram : worship of Lord Subramanya -- This is popular in Tamil Nadu 3. Sowram : The god apparent before us -- The SUN Worship -- Popular in Gujarat (Sowrashtra) 4. Vaishnavam ; Taking any of the avathar or Mahavishnu -- Vaishnavites are all over India. 5. Shaivam : Meditating on Shiva --Most popular all over India. ( Muscat has a shiva temple which is more than 125 years old. 6. Shaktham : Mediating On the forms of Devi or Ambaal. These are the only MAIN forms revealed in our scriptures and followed by any Sanathana Dharmi . MEDITATION OF GOD IN ANY OF THE ABOVE FORM WOULD LEAD TO THE FORMLESS PARA BRHAMAN. In my 1paise opinion the Hindus can not mediatate God as a wild Boar or a tree or anything like that though the TRUTH is " SARVAM BRAHMA MAYAM " -- God is not different from its creation and so everything is holy for a hindu --a river, a mountain or anything naturual-- just because Everything is holy , God can not be meditated in any form other than what is permitted. I invite Comments from members on this. Ganapathy = = = Vijayalakshmi > wrote: One cannot limit the forms God can assume and not even specifically to our anthropomorphic conception. He has taken the form animals (such a Wild Boar, in one of the leela-s). And he can assume any form he chooses. God is beyond such conceptions. But as shankara states in the commentary on the name kalaavaatii, to enable the meditation of his devotee God assumes different aspects. As the needs and tastes differ, so does the forms he chooses. This is due to his boundless compassion. Ravi > > >, "Alexandra Kafka" > <alexandra.kafka@a...> wrote: > > How many forms has Shiva? > > Are there also forms that show Him as an old man, and as a man of > middle age, or is He always portrait as young? > > > > Sponsor -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 I have read that "the meditator eventually becomes the meditated" and the difference ceases to exist, he takes on the qualities of the meditated. it seems to me that this contradicts the "one can worship anything as he likes" theory ... can someone illuminate ? Thank you. _____ adi_shakthi16 [adi_shakthi16] Saturday, June 28, 2003 8:11 AM Re: forms of God (Shanmatham) Respected devotees, Shri vijaya ganapathy writes... " Adi Sankara re-established the " Shanmatham" -- Worship limited to six forms as revealed in our Vedas and as per this the PARA BRAHMAN can be mediated only in any of these SIX FORMS. They are ; Ganapathyeem, Kowmaram , Sowram, Vaishnavam , Shaivam and Shakthm " . True, the first major classification of hinduism was made by shri Adi shankara Bhagvadapda. but only in a larger framework of hinduism. but, there are many other indigenous forms of worship among Hindus - there are village gods/goddesses ( grameen devatas and devis) and there are kula devatas and kula devis (clan deities) so, we have hindus worshipping 'madurai veeran' or 'muneeshwerar' etc....or annai velanganni amman etc! so, i do agree with Ravi when he says "One cannot limit the forms God can assume and not even specifically to our anthropomorphic conception. He has taken the form animals (such a Wild Boar, in one of the leela-s). And he can assume any form> he chooses." we cannot ignore the worship of 1) minor deities 2) clan deities (kula devatas) 3) village deities ( grameen devatas) 4) avatars etc.... The 'sun' god is mot just worshipped in saurashtra alone! during the festival of 'pongal' in south india, the sun god is worshipped as part of 'thanksgiving' for the bounty of harvest. there are the clan deiies for example-madurai veeran who are worshipped for their heroic deeds. then what about avatars.... the thiruviladiyil puranam elaborates this... and lord rama and lord krishna are such avatars too! (avatars of lord narayana) divine manifestations who took human form to establish 'dharma' ! Sanatana dharma is so called only because it is full of 'compassion' - all forms of worship are allowed... to each according to his/her disposition... thus you have devotees worshipping 'Manasi' (nageshweri devi) for 'progeny ! devotees worshipping 'ala maram' or tree... Hari AUM! > <http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050759 91:HM/A=1564415/R=0/SIG=11t6t7kdo/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60164 784&partid=3170658> <http://us.adserver./l?M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupmai l/S=:HM/A=1564415/rand=792840044> -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Dear Devotees, I read only this mail and not the main one. However since the member has sought for opinions , I wish to give. GOD can be meditated in any form.Adhishankara established shanmatha only to Organize the hinduism more systematically and not to say that these are only allowed six forms. So what happens to those who worship Anjaneya and so on and so forth. Next Sthalavrikshas are worshipped as God only and is given importance in our temples. Then Vahanas are also treated as Gods. Ex:nandhi and Garuda hence God can be worshipped in any form Regards Venkata Ramanan L.R > ganapathy = = vijaya <srividya101 wrote: > > I would like to comment on your observation that GOD CAN BE > WORSHIPPED IN ANY FORM. Prior to Adi Sankara's time as people > were meditating various forms, Adi Sankara re-established > the " Shanmatham" -- Worship limited to six forms as revealed > in our Vedas and as per this the PARA BRAHMAN can be > mediated only in any of these SIX FORMS. They are ; <cut> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Respected Sri Ganapathyji: First of all you misquote me. When you say I make a such and such observation, you should use the exact words in my e-mail. The following sentence in your mail is "I would like to comment on your observation that GOD CAN BE WORSHIPPED IN ANY FORM." is not correct. I have left my original e-mail intact below, please see that. I make no such observation. Please note that when you capitalize a whole sentence, it equivalent to shouting out loud. Next time when you quote, kindly use the words in the original e-mail and not your interpretation of it. ------------------- You certainly draw the above quoted conclusion from my extract of the name kalavaatii -- where shankara says God assumes different aspects (kala-s) to enable the meditation of bhakta-s. I did not quote that to authenticate the worship of every form of God. I added that to say, that some of the forms taken by God are to enable meditation of bhakta-s and they are different because the tastes and needs differ. I understand that some forms are more conducive and efficient to worship than others. In my opinion, worship is better if it is rooted in abheda bhaava, for instance, as highlighted in texts like bahvRchopanishad. It is even better if less emphasis is placed on a particular form (for it might become an obstacle). More than the form of choice, it is the attitude of upAsana that is more important. Attitude should be rooted in abheda bhaava and not for karma phala. --------------- Coming back to the points your post, 1) Even today within the framework vaishhNavam, people worship Lord as varaaha and nR^isimha, even though his other forms of matsya and kuurma is not so popular, they are there. Even shankara himself has sang hymns on nR^isimha. These are not entirely human forms. nR^isimha is half human and half lion. varaaha is a wild boar. This is well within the shaNmatha. 2) Even in SriVidyopaasaka-s worship hayagreeva and vaarahii. Lord hayagreeva is horse faced. 3) Within vedic religion, worship of many other devata-s, such as varuNa, agni navagraha-s, etc. are sanctioned. In fact, smArtha-s worship many things like tulasi plant, etc. One of five abodes of mahalakshmi is considered as cow and for that reason, many worship cow. We also worship rivers (even in sandhya we say narmaadaayai namaH praataH". Well all this is also within smArtha sampradaya. Not only the 6 major devata-s, their parivaara-s also worshipped. And our achaarya-s themselves promote the worship of devata-s such as hanumAn. One can go on and on with such a list. 3) As per advaita-vedAnta, upaasana can never directly give final emancipation. The only way final emancipation is attained is via jnAna. At the best, upaasana can lead only to krama mukti. Sankara takes up this matter in brahma suutra bhaashhya and says that upasana can give things like aishvarya praapti, krama mukti etc (depending on the situation). Immediate emancipation (sadyo mukti) is only by jnAna. And not all upasana-s will also lead to krama mukti. Hence, there is no guarantee that even upaasana of the six you stated will lead to krama mukti. Lot has to go with the attitude of upAsAna than the form chosen for the upAsana. Thanks. Ravi > > ganapathy = = vijaya [srividya101] > Saturday, June 28, 2003 6:37 AM > > Re: Re: forms of God (Shanmatham) > > > I would like to comment on your observation that GOD CAN BE > WORSHIPPED IN ANY FORM. Prior to Adi Sankara's time as people > were meditating various forms, Adi Sankara re-established the " > Shanmatham" -- Worship limited to six forms as revealed in our > Vedas and as per this the PARA BRAHMAN can be mediated only in > any of these SIX FORMS. They are ; <snip> > MEDITATION OF GOD IN ANY OF THE ABOVE FORM WOULD LEAD TO THE FORMLESS PARA BRHAMAN. > In my 1paise opinion the Hindus can not mediatate God as a wild > Boar or a tree or anything like that though the TRUTH is " SARVAM > BRAHMA MAYAM " -- God is not different from its creation and so > everything is holy for a hindu --a river, a mountain or anything > naturual-- just because Everything is holy , God can not be > meditated in any form other than what is permitted. > Ganapathy = = = Vijayalakshmi > > > wrote: > One cannot limit the forms God can assume and not even specifically > to our anthropomorphic conception. He has taken the form animals > (such a Wild Boar, in one of the leela-s). And he can assume any form > he chooses. God is beyond such conceptions. But as shankara states in > the commentary on the name kalaavaatii, to enable the meditation of > his devotee God assumes different aspects. As the needs and tastes > differ, so does the forms he chooses. This is due to his boundless > compassion. > > > > Ravi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 To be realistic, mumukshutwam and gnana-vairagyam are being difficult things now for most in the current world (state of affairs). A person, though interested in doing saadana at young age, is to cope up with his studies, get to work, earn and progress in his work, help parents in fulfilling their duties (bringing up sisters/brothers), get married (bring up the wards) and finally fulfil his responsibilities towards them, and along side do all the dharmic duties to the society -- one compulsorily lives with. In this long transition, if a person is able to do upaasana, bakthi in any manner, is a great thing (or, it is all one can do under the present world). If a person does all this, he will surely have become a mumukshu in due course. From here, may be (let me put an age say 60+), he can pursue moksham and obtain it. In other words, pooja, upaasana, bakthi, all these will definitely shape a person from young to reach his loving deity's feet happily. So, let people at first take up upasaana (japa, maanasa pooja, krama poooja whatever possible) and attain mukti in due course. The deity worshipped will take care of this. My humble opinion !!! Regards, L Vaidyanathan --- seeksha <seeksha wrote: , "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...> wrote: > > > 3) As per advaita-vedAnta, upaasana can never directly give final > emancipation. The only way final emancipation is attained is via jnAna. At > the best, upaasana can lead only to krama mukti. Sankara takes up this > matter in brahma suutra bhaashhya and says that upasana can give things like > aishvarya praapti, krama mukti etc (depending on the situation). Immediate > emancipation (sadyo mukti) is only by jnAna. And not all upasana-s will also > lead to krama mukti. Hence, there is no guarantee that even upaasana of the > six you stated will lead to krama mukti. Lot has to go with the attitude of > upAsAna than the form chosen for the upAsana. > The role of upasana and bhakti were very confusing to me until I read the Gita commentary of Acharya. Not that it's all clear now; at least I have a better understanding than before. As Ravi has stated, Upasana can act as a means to obtain a variety of results. Any dharmic puruShartha is not condemned by the Vedas. That's the reason why we see a lot of kaama and artha pradaana wishes listed in the phalashruti; even in hymns like sahasranama. Technically moksha is possible only though GYana. The problem of samsaara is unique and cannot be solved either by sat-karma or upasana. For a mumukshu the role of upasana is totally different. The moksha formula being "karmaNaa chitta shuddhiH , upaasanayaa chitta ekagrataa or chitta samskaaraH GYaanena shoka nivR^itiH" once we obtain purity of mind through right action; practicing spiritual meditation or Upasana gives a steadfast mind (ekagra chittam) where enquiry is possible. Until a worldly gain is sought, Upasana becomes a means to fulfill that. But when we don't see any value in worldly things (vairagya) and seek Ishvara alone, we get two things, freedom from rebirth and a steadfast mind. The reason why we are freed from rebirth is because of the acquisition of Vairagya. If one does not engage in the acquisition of GYana after acquiring chitta-ekagrata, he gets to Brahma-loka after death (you can also call it Kailasa, Vaikunta , Manidvipa etc..). It is here that we have an option. Once a person attains chitta ekagrata through upasana he can either do the enquiry here or in brahma-loka. To get to brahma-loka and do the enquiry and get liberated is called `krama mukti' and to do it here in this world and in this birth is termed `sadyo mukti'. Aravind Sponsor -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help Terms of Service. ______________________ Send free SMS using the Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile./new/pc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Hi anaashrita, With respect to Nadopaasanaa. You dont need to be a musician to do nadopaasanaa. I urge senior members of our group to discuss naadopaasanaa for the benefit of naive members like me. Regards Ravi SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Dear Shri Ravi,and dear ambaal devotees namaskarams. Infact this is a good suggestion. Nadabrahmam Thyagaraja and other two Muthuswamy Dikshithar and Syama sastri had blessings of God throgh music. Sangeetham is a route to reach God. The very reason a good music giving curative effect tells us the power of music. Nayanmars and Alwars used music as a route. Arunagirinadhar gave us Thirupugazh and reached God through Music and we can expand list as Purandharadasa, Meera and so on and so forth. Hence in Kaliyuga I have heard Sri Haridoss Giri Shishya of Sathguru Gnananda of Thrikoilur and a great Mahan spreading Bhajan as a great solutions of problems in Kaliyuga saying that singing and chanting and doing namajapa is the way suggested as a best route for kaliyuga. Hence I invite all to participate in this session on Nadhopasana. Regards Venkata Ramanan L.R Ravi Ramaswamy <nsrravi wrote: Hi anaashrita, With respect to Nadopaasanaa. You dont need to be a musician to do nadopaasanaa. I urge senior members of our group to discuss naadopaasanaa for the benefit of naive members like me. Regards Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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