Guest guest Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I believe (and I can be wrong) that stotras/shlokas/stuti's can be set to music. Vedas should not be sung to a tune other than in Sama nor should it be accompanied by instruments. Mantras, the pronounciation and intonation has to be learnt from a Guru (Ideally even if your Guru is wrong you should still follow it, alternatively if you feel your Guru is wrong, this is another subject) LS is both a stotra and a mantra sastra, hence it can be set to music, however while performing Havan or Archana it is a mantra and the rules for mantra apply Gayatri mantra, this is interesting as while used for meditation should not be chanted aloud (there are different merits based on how the mantra is meditated upon and wethere it is done silently etc.. with the maximum potential to silent japa) but however all vedic riks/yajus should be chanted aloud! it is an apachara to recite the vedas silently. While chanting the Arunaprasnam in the Taiterya Aranyaka or the Mahanarayanopanishad the Gayatri mantra is uttered in a subdued voice. (Gayatri mantra = Savitir in the above paragraph) However in all cases, the chandas if applicable, has to be adhered to or else the meaning changes regards Vishwanathan --- Srinath Ram <srinath_atreya wrote: > || Jai Sadguru Dutta || > > > I vividly remember an incident that happened when I > was a child ( 8 > years old ). I had been to ShrngEri along with my > parents. When we > went to Guru darShan, we saw an elderly scholar, > singing Shri > Saundarya lahari infront of Shree aBhinava > vidyAteerTha swAmigal. All > of a sudden, Shree swAmiji thundered "STOP!!!!", and > said "mantras > should not be sung. it is APACHARA.......". He also > explained why, > but I neither understood what he said nor do I > remember any of his > words now. > > Nowadays, we come across so many audios in which the > GAyathri, > GanEsha aTharva SheerSha, Saundarya lahari, LalithA > sahasranAma and > the like are sung in different tones. Each time I > hear such audios, > Shree swAmiji's words humm in my ears. > > Can any of the enlightened members kindly explain > why it is forbidden > to sing mantras? > > kind regards > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 There are many aspects that come into play in this matter. 1) With regard to shruti, there is an interesting story which explains this. Please see the following link for details. Things such a varNa, svara, mAtra, balam, sAma and santana are the keys here and it is discussed in siixaavalli. http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part6/chap9.htm 2) Take a mantra, the meaning of that mantra could change by a wrong split or incorrect pronunciation and so on. For instance, advaitins "sa AtmA tattvamasi" get distorted to dvaitin's " sa AtmA atattvamasi" -- thus creating a huge difference. 3) Above example is an intentional distortion. But with singing, one will introduce splits where there is none due to the demands of raaga etc. For example, vidyaa-avidyaa-svaruupiNi, can become vidyaaaaa [pause] vidyaaaa svaruupiNi. That could change the meaning. I can not recollect examples now, but I have noticed such wrong breaks in some carnatic renderings. In music the concern is often being faithful to the rAga than to the text and even the bhAva. 4) For many tamil people like me, the language will also put another obstacle -- for instance, aakaala mR^ityu haraNam can become aakaala mR^ityu karaNam!!! -- changing a blessing to curse due to lack of all the varNa-s. Hence, singing a mantra could introduce grave errors. Learning from an audio recording, has the flaw of the not being corrected while reproducing it. A knowledgeable teacher who can spend ***one-on-one*** time with a student is a must to correct all these errors. Other option is to simply talk to God whenever one can in the language one understands. What God is a God if She cannot answer you when you speak honestly to HER and instead expect that you utter a mumbo jumbo which you do not understand? That is why kaaLikaa puraaNa says that praying to God with one's own words is better than shruti! My 2c. Ravi > > Srinath Ram [srinath_atreya] > Monday, July 28, 2003 11:46 PM > > Singing Mantras > > > || Jai Sadguru Dutta || > > > I vividly remember an incident that happened when I was a child ( 8 > years old ). I had been to ShrngEri along with my parents. When we > went to Guru darShan, we saw an elderly scholar, singing Shri > Saundarya lahari infront of Shree aBhinava vidyAteerTha swAmigal. All > of a sudden, Shree swAmiji thundered "STOP!!!!", and said "mantras > should not be sung. it is APACHARA.......". He also explained why, > but I neither understood what he said nor do I remember any of his > words now. > > Nowadays, we come across so many audios in which the GAyathri, > GanEsha aTharva SheerSha, Saundarya lahari, LalithA sahasranAma and > the like are sung in different tones. Each time I hear such audios, > Shree swAmiji's words humm in my ears. > > Can any of the enlightened members kindly explain why it is forbidden > to sing mantras? > > kind regards -- > pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH > sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . > svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM > tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h > > www : http://www.ambaa.org/ > Contact: help > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Vanakkam i wonder how far my comment is relevant,but it should sound interesting. Mantras are bound to give adverse vibrations when they are pronounced wrong is ofcourse a known fact.Recently,i was conversing with the no 1 Poet of Tamilnadu,who is very close to me. He haswritten a literature piece in the dilect of his native and the slang ,when coming to prose was so difficult for others to read and understand,in certain areas. Pointing this out, he said that he is intending to render the whole work in his own voice for others to know the proper pronounciation.He is basically an ethist.I slowly giggled.he asked for the reason and i said,this is precisely why the brahmins prevented others from reading Vedas and a big havoc was made on it.Now,even in the same language,understanding the slang needs nativity. he couldnt debate as he knows i am a non-brhamin and no vested interests are behind "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi wrote: There are many aspects that come into play in this matter. 1) With regard to shruti, there is an interesting story which explains this. Please see the following link for details. Things such a varNa, svara, mAtra, balam, sAma and santana are the keys here and it is discussed in siixaavalli. http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part6/chap9.htm 2) Take a mantra, the meaning of that mantra could change by a wrong split or incorrect pronunciation and so on. For instance, advaitins "sa AtmA tattvamasi" get distorted to dvaitin's " sa AtmA atattvamasi" -- thus creating a huge difference. 3) Above example is an intentional distortion. But with singing, one will introduce splits where there is none due to the demands of raaga etc. For example, vidyaa-avidyaa-svaruupiNi, can become vidyaaaaa [pause] vidyaaaa svaruupiNi. That could change the meaning. I can not recollect examples now, but I have noticed such wrong breaks in some carnatic renderings. In music the concern is often being faithful to the rAga than to the text and even the bhAva. 4) For many tamil people like me, the language will also put another obstacle -- for instance, aakaala mR^ityu haraNam can become aakaala mR^ityu karaNam!!! -- changing a blessing to curse due to lack of all the varNa-s. Hence, singing a mantra could introduce grave errors. Learning from an audio recording, has the flaw of the not being corrected while reproducing it. A knowledgeable teacher who can spend ***one-on-one*** time with a student is a must to correct all these errors. Other option is to simply talk to God whenever one can in the language one understands. What God is a God if She cannot answer you when you speak honestly to HER and instead expect that you utter a mumbo jumbo which you do not understand? That is why kaaLikaa puraaNa says that praying to God with one's own words is better than shruti! My 2c. Ravi > > Srinath Ram [srinath_atreya] > Monday, July 28, 2003 11:46 PM > > Singing Mantras > > > || Jai Sadguru Dutta || > > > I vividly remember an incident that happened when I was a child ( 8 > years old ). I had been to ShrngEri along with my parents. When we > went to Guru darShan, we saw an elderly scholar, singing Shri > Saundarya lahari infront of Shree aBhinava vidyAteerTha swAmigal. All > of a sudden, Shree swAmiji thundered "STOP!!!!", and said "mantras > should not be sung. it is APACHARA.......". He also explained why, > but I neither understood what he said nor do I remember any of his > words now. > > Nowadays, we come across so many audios in which the GAyathri, > GanEsha aTharva SheerSha, Saundarya lahari, LalithA sahasranAma and > the like are sung in different tones. Each time I hear such audios, > Shree swAmiji's words humm in my ears. > > Can any of the enlightened members kindly explain why it is forbidden > to sing mantras? > > kind regards -- > pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH > sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . > svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM > tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h > > www : http://www.ambaa.org/ > Contact: help > > Your use of is subject to > > > > -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help SMS using the Messenger;Download latest version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Dear Sri Ravi, well said and for all the reasons given by you HH Mahaperiaval of Kaanchi has prohibited singing both Soundarya LahAri and Lalitha sahasranama specifically. chanting of Vedas should also not have any accompaniments and the chanter should also not show any action like shaking the head or moving the hands "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi wrote: There are many aspects that come into play in this matter. 1) With regard to shruti, there is an interesting story which explains this. Please see the following link for details. Things such a varNa, svara, mAtra, balam, sAma and santana are the keys here and it is discussed in siixaavalli. http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part6/chap9.htm 2) Take a mantra, the meaning of that mantra could change by a wrong split or incorrect pronunciation and so on. For instance, advaitins "sa AtmA tattvamasi" get distorted to dvaitin's " sa AtmA atattvamasi" -- thus creating a huge difference. 3) Above example is an intentional distortion. But with singing, one will introduce splits where there is none due to the demands of raaga etc. For example, vidyaa-avidyaa-svaruupiNi, can become vidyaaaaa [pause] vidyaaaa svaruupiNi. That could change the meaning. I can not recollect examples now, but I have noticed such wrong breaks in some carnatic renderings. In music the concern is often being faithful to the rAga than to the text and even the bhAva. 4) For many tamil people like me, the language will also put another obstacle -- for instance, aakaala mR^ityu haraNam can become aakaala mR^ityu karaNam!!! -- changing a blessing to curse due to lack of all the varNa-s. Hence, singing a mantra could introduce grave errors. Learning from an audio recording, has the flaw of the not being corrected while reproducing it. A knowledgeable teacher who can spend ***one-on-one*** time with a student is a must to correct all these errors. Other option is to simply talk to God whenever one can in the language one understands. What God is a God if She cannot answer you when you speak honestly to HER and instead expect that you utter a mumbo jumbo which you do not understand? That is why kaaLikaa puraaNa says that praying to God with one's own words is better than shruti! My 2c. Ravi > > Srinath Ram [srinath_atreya] > Monday, July 28, 2003 11:46 PM > > Singing Mantras > > > || Jai Sadguru Dutta || > > > I vividly remember an incident that happened when I was a child ( 8 > years old ). I had been to ShrngEri along with my parents. When we > went to Guru darShan, we saw an elderly scholar, singing Shri > Saundarya lahari infront of Shree aBhinava vidyAteerTha swAmigal. All > of a sudden, Shree swAmiji thundered "STOP!!!!", and said "mantras > should not be sung. it is APACHARA.......". He also explained why, > but I neither understood what he said nor do I remember any of his > words now. > > Nowadays, we come across so many audios in which the GAyathri, > GanEsha aTharva SheerSha, Saundarya lahari, LalithA sahasranAma and > the like are sung in different tones. Each time I hear such audios, > Shree swAmiji's words humm in my ears. > > Can any of the enlightened members kindly explain why it is forbidden > to sing mantras? > > kind regards -- > pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH > sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . > svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM > tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h > > www : http://www.ambaa.org/ > Contact: help > > Your use of is subject to > > > > -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Most mantras have ChandAnsI and the whole purpose for that is that it be sung, a lot of vidyas viz. Kalika Mantra raja and Tara mantra raja are sung. Mantras are sung and generally all mantras to mAtangini are sung. Ofcourse with a lot of mantras this free singing is not something that is recommended but I doubt the effects be that malefic. Sundari Lahiri has been always to my knowledge a set of mantras that was sung. When I mean sing, I mean the usage of rAga and change in swara thus making the mantra pleasing to recite, hear and also making it sound more harmonious. Take the dhUmra, kurcha, kAma, kAmakala, shastra and samhArin/mrityuna sAnghArini bijas these are bijas that require a set swara and rAga. These rules that mantras are not to be sung are absurd and ridiculous. Mantras are prayers devI the mother of mothers. She who is said to love songs, singing. According to most Tantras the way to please devI kalika is to sing a heartfelt song/mantra to her. The word kavItra (poetic clothing) is also a synonym for kAdi vidya. According the a lot of sources mother SundarI is one who is pleased by singing of mantras (strong reference to vedic mantra/sukta known as the durga sukta). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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