Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 s_seshagiri wrote: > s_seshagiri [s_seshagiri] > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:43 PM > > Re: Singing Mantras > > > In my opinion, earlier explanation provided by > Mr. Vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy as "LS is both a > stotra and a mantra sastra, hence it can be set to > music, however while performing Havan or > Archana it is a mantra and the rules for mantra > apply*" is the right way to understand this. > Surely I accept we cannot apply the stotra > argument and sing it *while treating it as a > mantra*. > Sridhar, The question is, does it cease to be a mantra when you treat it as a stotra? I think the answer is no. Because, the requirement of initiation to shriividya stands whether you sing it as a stotra or take a name treat it as a mantra. That is my understanding. I also think it is unfair to extend the rules that are applied to shruti to all the other works. Typically, when people say mantra, it is veda mantra. And as Vinesh said, the line between what is singing and what is not, is also questionable. Hence, in my opinion it should be ok to set works such as Saundaryalahari and LS to music provided a) meaning is not distorted b) syllables are not mangled and c) the correct pronunciation is retained. Primarily, the integrity of the text should not be sacrificed for the sake of music. One who sets it to music should understand the text quite well before embarking on it. This is just my opinion. I have to be honest here, I prefer M.S.Sheela's brilliant musical rendering of LS even over the recitation of Sri jayendrasarasvati swamigaL. Music provides a structure to remember the text easily. In fact, Sheela is pretty accurate in pronunciation and rendering, she is well known for this. And since the aacharya says its from memory, (and if I remember correctly :-)) ), Sri aacharya makes errors in 1 or 2 places. Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 >> kavItra (poetic clothing) is also a synonym for kAdi vidya. > If possible can you please write more about this? Devi is the poetic clothing, this is in reference to the oral tantric tradition. Tantras were never meant to be revealed to more then one fellow (guru to shishyA, the one he sees worthy). But even then the tantrA was concealed in a poetic way. Devi conceals the true nature of tantra from people who can either harm themselves or others since she does not want her children suffering a destructive fate such as that. This leads me to the point of kavItra kavi meaning poet or poetic and Itra meaning article of clothing or some towel like thing. She is the concealing factor of poetry or the resonating song of the param atma. BTW I am not to fond of quoting books, what I know is from devI, guru or pratical trial and error (basically devI lOL) and I have seen that this is applicable to many as a result I (thanks to mantra tantra group members) realised that there is a universal way to reach devi. I cant help it but start blurting out her mantra and sometimes the pleasure is so great at that point the mantra doesn't come out properly. This all because of singing the vidyas of the beloved mother. I suggest one try this before condemning it. [post edited by moderator] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Few of our learned are slightly confused about saastra and thothra..is my observation.Thothra is an outbirst of outpouring devotion and it has no limitations or need for sruthy.Arunagirinadhar says that Lord Muruga relishes even songs of devils.`PAANIGAL KOTTUM PEIGAL PIDATRUM PAADALAI MECHUM KADHIRVELA'.It cannot be the same with manthras based on sastras as the sound manifests itself as the divine force.So,pronounciation,sruthi are all important. >Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote > >Mantra is not the same thing as a prayer. The following is what >Arthur Avalon has to say regarding the difference between a mantra >and a prayer. Source: The Garland of Letters. Chapter 28. > >"A mantra again is not the same thing as prayer or self dedication >(Atma nivedana).Prayer is conveyed in what words the worshipper >chooses and bears its menaing on its face. It is only ignorance of >Sastrik principles (See "Principles of Tantra" as to what precedes >and follows) which supposes that mantra is merely the name for the >words in which one expresses what one has to say to the divinity.If >it were, the sadhaka might choose his own language without recourse >to the eternal and determined sounds of Sastra." > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 respected sri. ravi, i think there is too much confusion on this aspect unnecessarily. LS, soundarya lahari ets are stotras, and do contain mantra beejas, and their couplets could be used as mantras for certain wish-fulfilments. as a matter of fact, my mother and most ladies recite s/lahari set to different raagas. maybe, u take such liberties with LS also. also , LT mantras: "kakaara roopaayai kalyyanyaai----- " " etc may render to a fine shruthi and ragas. however, we must differentiate these from vedic sookthams like durga sooktham, shree sooktham, medha sooktham, the rudram-chamakam, purusha sooktham,punyaaha vachanam ------- et al. though cassettes are galore on these sukthams set to instuments and ragas, i think it is not very fair on our rishis and gurus and ouselves to get into those modes of reciting these divine outpourings. veda sukthams must be got initiated from a guru and chanted to the set rhythm. it is not for nothing that the rishies have transfereed them over millennia merely by word of mouth. and pray, what is the need to render the sookthas other than thro set renditions? if one is good in music, one colud learn some keerthanams of shyama sastrikal, or deekshitar or tyagayya, swati tirunaal or any of hundreds of vernacular vaggeyakaaras, and sing them to heart's content. yes, it should be correct to say that during archanas and homas, the LS couplets are mantras,and can be sung for regular recitations. but i think we should leave the sookthas alone. i am an IGNORAMUS in fromt of blessed scholars in this group. so please forgive me if i am presumptous. respectfully yours, a.v.krshnan. --- "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi wrote: > s_seshagiri wrote: > > > s_seshagiri [s_seshagiri] > > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:43 PM > > > > Re: Singing Mantras > > > > > > In my opinion, earlier explanation provided by > > Mr. Vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy as "LS is both a > > stotra and a mantra sastra, hence it can be set to > > music, however while performing Havan or > > Archana it is a mantra and the rules for mantra > > apply*" is the right way to understand this. > > Surely I accept we cannot apply the stotra > > argument and sing it *while treating it as a > > mantra*. > > > > Sridhar, > > The question is, does it cease to be a mantra when > you treat it as a stotra? > I think the answer is no. Because, the requirement > of initiation to > shriividya stands whether you sing it as a stotra or > take a name treat it as > a mantra. That is my understanding. > > I also think it is unfair to extend the rules that > are applied to shruti to > all the other works. Typically, when people say > mantra, it is veda mantra. > And as Vinesh said, the line between what is singing > and what is not, is > also questionable. > > Hence, in my opinion it should be ok to set works > such as Saundaryalahari > and LS to music provided a) meaning is not distorted > b) syllables are not > mangled and c) the correct pronunciation is > retained. Primarily, the > integrity of the text should not be sacrificed for > the sake of music. One > who sets it to music should understand the text > quite well before embarking > on it. > > This is just my opinion. I have to be honest here, I > prefer M.S.Sheela's > brilliant musical rendering of LS even over the > recitation of Sri > jayendrasarasvati swamigaL. Music provides a > structure to remember the text > easily. In fact, Sheela is pretty accurate in > pronunciation and rendering, > she is well known for this. And since the aacharya > says its from memory, > (and if I remember correctly :-)) ), Sri aacharya > makes errors in 1 or 2 > places. > > > Ravi > > > > > > > > ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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