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Sri Rama Jayam

 

Dear Sri Ramjayar and others,

 

This is a nice reply for the same kind of query

which I came across at the SrirangaSri ,

which I found pretty logical.

 

I am forwarding this to all to whom this may be useful.

 

Regards,

Sudarshan Iyer

 

Dear Bhagavatas:Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan Swamy with id

" narsimhancsl" writes as follows:

 

"Dear Swamy,This is very well written procedure for upakarma.

It is indeed very true that there is no need to change

sankalpams when u r out of India. I remember when my grandfather

tested me on this. He gave a samasya pooranam slokam as follows:

"Kovido america gathva sankalpam keedrusham kruthaha". Which means

how a learned man performs sankalpam when he goes to America. It

occurred to me immediately & I completed the verse by saying:

"yathaahi poorvajairuktham manasaa bhaarathey sthithaha". which

means as said by our elders staying in India through "mind". He

liked the reply and was happy that I grasped his inner intention

 

[deleted]

 

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In last but one para of your mail you have the answer to your question. As a

Brahmin you are not supposed to cross seas. And if you do there are

extensive and very expensive prayachittas. That is if you go overseas

without knowing that you should not go not otherwise.

Ballakrishnen

 

>"ramjayar" <ramjayar

>

>

> Sankalpam

>Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:54:50 -0000

>

>Hello

>

>Will revered members throw some light on sankalpam that is to be made

>when some one is away from india - the "Bharatha Kante"

>

>The sankalpam recital during avani avittam mentions Bharatha varshe,

>bharadha kante, ...

>

>So if im in US, what will be sankalpa mantra - this is very specific

>to the forth coming avani avittam

>

>As im away for the first time during the avani avittam, would like to

>know if there are any other sankalpam for a different geographies

>

>Incidentally i have also heard that Brahmins are not supposed to

>cross seas? Is it for this reason - no specific sankalpam away from

>India?

>

>Any thoughts from learned scholars to dispel my ignorance would be

>welcome

>

>Namaskarams

>

>Ramakrishnan

>

>

 

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1) The ancient vedic cosmology is complex and different[1]. The layout of

dvipa-s and different kinds of oceans etc. will not match with anything

what we know of today.

 

2) Hence, the claims such as America is krauncha dvIpa etc. may not have a

good basis. Stating so, does not make the sankalpa's spatial location more

accurate.

 

 

3) Hence, it is better to stick to jambudvIpe and bhArata varsha, then say

the local details such as country, state, city, near by river etc. And you

can retain that it is south of meru. Because, kAnchi Acharya in one of his

talks, says that is above North pole and from there anything is south!

 

 

4) The goal of stating the space-time coordinates in sankalpa of the sAdhaka

has two purposes a) ascertaining the approriateness of the ritual in the

context of location and time b) to understand/learn/preserve our traditions

such as panchanga.

 

 

Item #b reminds us the phase of the moon, relative location of sun and

earth, and the other planets, asterism, etc. 50 years ago, even ordinary

people in India could go outside and point out planets, constellations etc.

Now most of us have no clue, heavy city lighting is only is only a tiny

contribution to this effect. But all is not lost. There are softwares such

as Winstars, Celestia, etc. (they are in tropical system not sidereal) which

can help us give a good idea on location and position of the planets. More

than verbally stating, what is important is have a good idea of locations.

How many of us can today draw the position of earth, moon, and sun in solar

system, let alone other planets. This plays quite intimately with our

tradition. The fact that shukra is not visible from earth this shrAvaNa

puurnima made few panchangams to push it a month earlier to aashhAda

puurNima (http://www.escribe.com/religion/advaita/m13975.html)

 

 

5) Despite the confusion on precession of equinoxes and wide variety of

ayanamsha-s, there is some agreement on time and panchanga(Unless you

consider methods such as Swami Yukteshwar Giri's system, by which we are in

dvApara yuga now). There are lot of astrlogy software with good epheremides

computation and ayanamsha options.

 

6) Hence, in summary you can say as much as you can be accurate. The goal is

basically to learn the tradition. There are certain things (such as

dviipa-s) which nobody really knows, at some level it is easier to accept

ignorance and state what we know (such as starting from milky way galaxy

:-)) )

 

 

My 2c. And I agree with what is quoted below.

 

 

 

 

Ravi

 

[1] See the following for a presentation of this complexity.

http://www.sacreduniverse.com/overview.html

 

[2] http://winstars.free.fr/english/

http://www.shatters.net/celestia/

>

> sudarshan balasubramanian

> [sudarshanbalasubramanian]

> Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:25 PM

>

> Cc: ramjayar

> Re: Sankalpam

>

>

>

> "Dear Swamy,This is very well written procedure for upakarma.

> It is indeed very true that there is no need to change

> sankalpams when u r out of India. I remember when my grandfather

> tested me on this. He gave a samasya pooranam slokam as follows:

> "Kovido america gathva sankalpam keedrusham kruthaha". Which means

> how a learned man performs sankalpam when he goes to America. It

> occurred to me immediately & I completed the verse by saying:

> "yathaahi poorvajairuktham manasaa bhaarathey sthithaha". which

> means as said by our elders staying in India through "mind". He

> liked the reply and was happy that I grasped his inner intention

>

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my two cents. i did discover a mount Meru. If some one looks up the

map of Gondwana land you will see india was attached to coast of

East africa and the north of that in the country of Tanzania is a

mountain called Mount Meru.

 

The Gondwana land was in existence 240 Million years ago.

So I do not know whether it is possible that the meru described

is THE mount meru.

 

If that is so, then it opens a series of mind boggling questions

like:

Were there humans at that time

if so is the mention of mount meru at that time a part of the

collective conciousness etc.

 

Kochu

> "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi wrote:

>

> 1) The ancient vedic cosmology is complex and different[1]. The

> layout of dvipa-s and different kinds of oceans etc. will not

> match with anything what we know of today.

 

Moderator's note : Please do not quote entire portions of a

post if only 2 lines of it are being reponded to.

 

Personal note (Sridhar) : I think this discussion is going

nowhere, and should perhaps be discontinued. It will be better

if our energies could be directed to more purposeful

discussions. Of course, others might disagree.

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