Guest guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 namaste: To some extent, it is better to avoid such posts. A bottle of intoxicating fluid is an inert material. Which has is its own consequences if one chooses to drink it or. What is there to feel arrogant over a bottle of wine? Please ask yourself this question before you post, whether it is in line with shruti, smriti or puraaNa.If not, please do not post. True laxaNa of a devotee, is to see that jiiva takes different bodies based on puurva kaarma and it suffers the actions that are consquent to it. A jiiva may take body of a woman, man, or an animal. Hence, shruti says "yastu sarvaaNi bhuutaani aatmani eva ..." Such a person will not have revulsion (na vijugupsate) towards anything. That is something we should strive for. A thief has to be treated like thief for social norms, but one can do that without hating him. That hatred is wrong. There is no need to be proud about one's greatness or someone else weakness. I understand that parasuraama kalpa suutra-s has valuable information, but kindly filter before you post it to the list. If you are in doubt, please send it to help. We will be more than happy to assist you. Ravi > > ganapathy = = vijaya [srividya101] > Monday, October 20, 2003 12:45 AM > > Cc: kamakotimuscat > Lakshana for an Upasaka > > > > Sub : Lakshanas for a Sri Vidya Upasaka > > > > As per Parasurama Kalpa Sutra : > > > > When an upasaka happen to meet or see any of the following, he > should not have or express a sense of fear or hatred or feeling > of arrogance. > > > > What are those things specifies : > > > > A gathering of Suvasinies > > A pot (or bottle ) containing an intoxicating substance or hard spirit > > A person possessing a Manthra Shakthi or siddhi > > An assembly of playful young ladies > > Mango tree > > Ashoka tree > > A solitary tree > > Bewitching prostitute > > Thaurini or a young lady > > A lady wearing a red colour saree > > An elephant > > > > It is also important that the sadhak should avoid passing > comments or gag or find fault on another upasaka, should avoid > expressing himself harshly, should not be short tempered despite > his achievements, use of coercion either through emotion or other > means such as the mantra siddhi, and at all times keep calm. > > > > As per Vishnu Purana the four faces of Devi are ; > > > > Yagna Vidya ----- based on Karma > > Maha Vidya ------ upasana Vidya > > Guhya vidya ----- manthra Vidya > > Atma vidya ------ Brahma Vidya > > > > All these in Toto constitutes the efforts needed to perceive the > SRI VIDYA – > > > > A note on Parasurama kalpa Sutra. > > > > There are three types of Sri Vidya upasana based on rishies > --Dakshinamuthy, Ananda Bhairava, Hayagreeva. > > > > Dakshinamurthy Matha consists of 2.4 milion grantha sankya and > Lord Dattatreya condensed it to 24,000 sankya and His sishya – > Parusurama further summarized it to 336 sutras and the Sri Vidya > Navavarana Puja is done based on these sutras Ganapathy --- Vijaya > > " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " > > " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > -- > pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH > sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . > svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM > tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h > > www : http://www.ambaa.org/ > Contact: help > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Dear shree Raviji, Namaskar. Your post gives an impression that the discussion on this subject is either inappropriate or offending as to its contents , I may be wrong also , hence this is mail. The post on the Lakshanas for an upasaka is authoritative , i have technical materials to support this literal translation and is not a personal opinion , in most of the posts, if it is my imagination, i put an appropriate note if you have noticed it. as you may be aware that the entire gamut of Dhakshinachara of Devi upasana is based on this valuable scripture " Parusurama kalpa sutra " which is beyond doubt a Most Respected smruthi and why should a question whether it is sruthi etc. i think you have related the term arrogance in a wrong context-- a bottle of intoxicant. Arrogance arises out of , an extreme intellect or assumed intellect or Ego and the term should be related out of all options , to a person with Manthra Siddhi when an upasaka sees such person. ( we see commonly extreme rivalry between different Gurus in Sri vidya Upasana -- arrogantly critisizing each other ) -- My personal view. With due respects to your definition of Laxana , the " true laxana" as defined by you is not what is said in the " Parausurama kalpa sutra " and therefore not relevant to this scripture or the mail. As i do not understand what has to be filtered in such posts as it not a personal opinion, I look forward for a suitable clarification. Regards ganapathy "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi wrote: namaste: To some extent, it is better to avoid such posts. A bottle of intoxicating fluid is an inert material. Which has is its own consequences if one chooses to drink it or. What is there to feel arrogant over a bottle of wine? Please ask yourself this question before you post, whether it is in line with shruti, smriti or puraaNa.If not, please do not post. True laxaNa of a devotee, is to see that jiiva takes different bodies based on puurva kaarma and it suffers the actions that are consquent to it. A jiiva may take body of a woman, man, or an animal. Hence, shruti says "yastu sarvaaNi bhuutaani aatmani eva ..." Such a person will not have revulsion (na vijugupsate) towards anything. That is something we should strive for. A thief has to be treated like thief for social norms, but one can do that without hating him. That hatred is wrong. There is no need to be proud about one's greatness or someone else weakness. I understand that parasuraama kalpa suutra-s has valuable information, but kindly filter before you post it to the list. If you are in doubt, please send it to help. We will be more than happy to assist you. Ravi > > ganapathy = = vijaya [srividya101] > Monday, October 20, 2003 12:45 AM > > Cc: kamakotimuscat > Lakshana for an Upasaka > > > > Sub : Lakshanas for a Sri Vidya Upasaka > > > > As per Parasurama Kalpa Sutra : > > > > When an upasaka happen to meet or see any of the following, he > should not have or express a sense of fear or hatred or feeling > of arrogance. > > > > What are those things specifies : > > > > A gathering of Suvasinies > > A pot (or bottle ) containing an intoxicating substance or hard spirit > > A person possessing a Manthra Shakthi or siddhi > > An assembly of playful young ladies > > Mango tree > > Ashoka tree > > A solitary tree > > Bewitching prostitute > > Thaurini or a young lady > > A lady wearing a red colour saree > > An elephant > > > > It is also important that the sadhak should avoid passing > comments or gag or find fault on another upasaka, should avoid > expressing himself harshly, should not be short tempered despite > his achievements, use of coercion either through emotion or other > means such as the mantra siddhi, and at all times keep calm. > > > > As per Vishnu Purana the four faces of Devi are ; > > > > Yagna Vidya ----- based on Karma > > Maha Vidya ------ upasana Vidya > > Guhya vidya ----- manthra Vidya > > Atma vidya ------ Brahma Vidya > > > > All these in Toto constitutes the efforts needed to perceive the > SRI VIDYA – > > > > A note on Parasurama kalpa Sutra. > > > > There are three types of Sri Vidya upasana based on rishies > --Dakshinamuthy, Ananda Bhairava, Hayagreeva. > > > > Dakshinamurthy Matha consists of 2.4 milion grantha sankya and > Lord Dattatreya condensed it to 24,000 sankya and His sishya – > Parusurama further summarized it to 336 sutras and the Sri Vidya > Navavarana Puja is done based on these sutras Ganapathy --- Vijaya > > " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " > > " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > -- > pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH > sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . > svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM > tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h > > www : http://www.ambaa.org/ > Contact: help > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Sponsor -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 > ganapathy = = vijaya [srividya101] > Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:07 AM > > RE: Lakshana for an Upasaka > > The post on the Lakshanas for an upasaka is authoritative , i > have technical materials to support this literal translation and > is not a personal opinion , in most of the posts, if it is my > imagination, i put an appropriate note if you have noticed it. I think that is the problem. PKS has to be interpreted and explained in detail. A literal interpretation of suutra is not always accessible to all. I have read portions of three different suutra-s: yoga suutra-s, naarada bhakti suutra-s, and brahma suutra-s. When you consider the last one, one has to fill in lot of words and explain. I thought about it last nite, if you explain why that particular list and extrapolate on it, one may get a better and more metaphorical meaning of that suutra. > > as you may be aware that the entire gamut of Dhakshinachara of > Devi upasana is based on this valuable scripture " Parusurama > kalpa sutra " which is beyond doubt a Most Respected smruthi and > why should a question whether it is sruthi etc. Can you point me to work of any of our acharya-s that quote from PKS? Was it before shankara? If then, does shankara's works quote it anywhere? I dont think it can be even called smRti. If I am not mistaken it is a work of tantra. > > With due respects to your definition of Laxana , the " true > laxana" as defined by you is not what is said in the " > Parausurama kalpa sutra " and therefore not relevant to this > scripture or the mail. Well what I stated is based on iishaavaasyopanishad. That is the final goal, one should see aatman in all, and all in aatman. If you take one step back, vivekachuuDamani gives a good definition of the qualification of a saadhaka, the 4-fold qualification is a pre-requisite to study upanishads and brahmasuutra and benefit from it. saadhanaanyatra chatvaari kathitaani maniishhibhiH . yeshhu sat{}sveva sannishhThaa yadabhaave na sidhyati .. 18.. Vivekachuudaamani further details them and explains it: aadau nityaanityavastuvivekaH parigaNyate . ihaamutraphalabhogaviraagastadanan{}taram.h . shamaadishhaT.hkasampattirmumukshutvamiti sphuTam.h .. 19.. Any upAsana or saadhaana should have this preparation in mind and develop the saadhaka towards it. If that is achieved then the saadhaka can take up the study of upanishads and brahmasuutra meaningfully and remove avidyaa. This is a nonlinear process. But any saadhana should keep this requirements in background and *always* strive for that. > > As i do not understand what has to be filtered in such posts as > it not a personal opinion, I look forward for a suitable clarification. Without adequate explanation, the material you presented from PKS, will never measure up to the requirements of vedAnta. That is the final goal. Even if we take baby steps through other methods, we should always keep in mind of that final goal. Not only that, if not explained in the terms of vedAnta, it will confuse and mislead people also. Take for instance, It is meaningless to say that one should not feel arrogant over a "bewitching prostitute" or hate her and leave it at that. This is a special case. All you can say, she is a jiiva, who has taken birth as a female body and undergoing her prarabdha kaarma. But our purusshaakaara should help her by educating about the local laws and safer methods, or a teach her different means of sustenance which is safer and better. Essentially, I have to understand that a jiiva can take any body and undergo its karmic cycle. It is not proper to feel superior, or hate, or judge in a negative way. All I can do is love and help or just keep quiet be out of the way. The list you gave has people at different spectrum. How you see Aatman in an auspicious sumangali, one should see the same in a prostitute. That underlies that a saadhaka should see the indweller and not the outer clothing. A suutra by itself is brief, but explanantions and translations should fill the blanks. As a moderator I compare what is posted against the background of vedAnta and how it compares to it. To me tantra by itself is not bad, there are good elements it. But the list will not accept if what is posted from tantra is explained in that context vedAnta. We will be better off not discussing it otherwise. I personally, look things from two different points of view a) advaita vedAnta and b) vishishhTaadvaita vedaanta. Anything that cannot be safely explained within the basic teachings of one of those, it out of scope. I may be wrong. But I hope explained my position. Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Dear Shree Raviji, Namaskar. I thank you for your clarification and all that can be said is, that the important subject was just presented to the august forum and before the subject matter from this important scripture PKS , could even ”Flower “ , there was a point of order on this topic from you in the capacity of a moderator. In view of this how can a useful or meaningful discussion, explanation or an interpretation could take place as pointed out in your mail. While I can reply to each of the point of yours, that would become futile and unproductive exercise, as we would tend go way from the topic which was indented for discussion . I think we Agree to disagree. While I appreciate and respect your position with responsibility as a moderator, there wouldn’t be any bad feelings on my part, if any of my mails finds it way to the trash and no explanation need be done. I treat the matter as closed. Regards ganapathy "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi wrote: > ganapathy = = vijaya [srividya101] > Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:07 AM > > RE: Lakshana for an Upasaka > > The post on the Lakshanas for an upasaka is authoritative , i > have technical materials to support this literal translation and > is not a personal opinion , in most of the posts, if it is my > imagination, i put an appropriate note if you have noticed it. I think that is the problem. PKS has to be interpreted and explained in detail. A literal interpretation of suutra is not always accessible to all. I have read portions of three different suutra-s: yoga suutra-s, naarada bhakti suutra-s, and brahma suutra-s. When you consider the last one, one has to fill in lot of words and explain. I thought about it last nite, if you explain why that particular list and extrapolate on it, one may get a better and more metaphorical meaning of that suutra. > > as you may be aware that the entire gamut of Dhakshinachara of > Devi upasana is based on this valuable scripture " Parusurama > kalpa sutra " which is beyond doubt a Most Respected smruthi and > why should a question whether it is sruthi etc. Can you point me to work of any of our acharya-s that quote from PKS? Was it before shankara? If then, does shankara's works quote it anywhere? I dont think it can be even called smRti. If I am not mistaken it is a work of tantra. > > With due respects to your definition of Laxana , the " true > laxana" as defined by you is not what is said in the " > Parausurama kalpa sutra " and therefore not relevant to this > scripture or the mail. Well what I stated is based on iishaavaasyopanishad. That is the final goal, one should see aatman in all, and all in aatman. If you take one step back, vivekachuuDamani gives a good definition of the qualification of a saadhaka, the 4-fold qualification is a pre-requisite to study upanishads and brahmasuutra and benefit from it. saadhanaanyatra chatvaari kathitaani maniishhibhiH . yeshhu sat{}sveva sannishhThaa yadabhaave na sidhyati .. 18.. Vivekachuudaamani further details them and explains it: aadau nityaanityavastuvivekaH parigaNyate . ihaamutraphalabhogaviraagastadanan{}taram.h . shamaadishhaT.hkasampattirmumukshutvamiti sphuTam.h .. 19.. Any upAsana or saadhaana should have this preparation in mind and develop the saadhaka towards it. If that is achieved then the saadhaka can take up the study of upanishads and brahmasuutra meaningfully and remove avidyaa. This is a nonlinear process. But any saadhana should keep this requirements in background and *always* strive for that. > > As i do not understand what has to be filtered in such posts as > it not a personal opinion, I look forward for a suitable clarification. Without adequate explanation, the material you presented from PKS, will never measure up to the requirements of vedAnta. That is the final goal. Even if we take baby steps through other methods, we should always keep in mind of that final goal. Not only that, if not explained in the terms of vedAnta, it will confuse and mislead people also. Take for instance, It is meaningless to say that one should not feel arrogant over a "bewitching prostitute" or hate her and leave it at that. This is a special case. All you can say, she is a jiiva, who has taken birth as a female body and undergoing her prarabdha kaarma. But our purusshaakaara should help her by educating about the local laws and safer methods, or a teach her different means of sustenance which is safer and better. Essentially, I have to understand that a jiiva can take any body and undergo its karmic cycle. It is not proper to feel superior, or hate, or judge in a negative way. All I can do is love and help or just keep quiet be out of the way. The list you gave has people at different spectrum. How you see Aatman in an auspicious sumangali, one should see the same in a prostitute. That underlies that a saadhaka should see the indweller and not the outer clothing. A suutra by itself is brief, but explanantions and translations should fill the blanks. As a moderator I compare what is posted against the background of vedAnta and how it compares to it. To me tantra by itself is not bad, there are good elements it. But the list will not accept if what is posted from tantra is explained in that context vedAnta. We will be better off not discussing it otherwise. I personally, look things from two different points of view a) advaita vedAnta and b) vishishhTaadvaita vedaanta. Anything that cannot be safely explained within the basic teachings of one of those, it out of scope. I may be wrong. But I hope explained my position. Ravi -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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