Guest guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Hariom, Its interesting to note the view points raised by Sri. Harsha Rammurthy and the reply from Ganapathy Vijaya, which makes me comment on the thread. I completely agree with the view as to the number of brahmins following vaidka dharma and nitya naimittika kriyas today and the sanctity of people etc. However, that would not make something unacceptable by the shastras acceptable. The vedas prescribe the rules for varnashrama dharma and varna dharma, which is expected to be followed. If someone fails to follow he is a patita and there is no second thought on it. The Gita says Swalpamapi Dharma saadhanaat trayate mahato bhayaat. Following Dharma to our level best wards off major things evils or fears. Therefore all of us are at some level of sadhana or at some junction of dharma following Dharma to our best possible abilities. However, the fact remains that if we are unable to follow the dictate in the shruti, we have broken the law to that extent. Therefore, what is prohibited by the shrutis, if done by a brahmana makes him a patita. This includes using madya instead of milk etc. As far as Vamachara is concerned even if a Brahmana follows it, it is imperative that he uses pratyamnaya dravyas instead of wine etc. However, the shastras if studies closely permit a Brahmin to use mamsa and matsya in deva pooja. (Pls refer Manu Smriti and the Grihya Sutras). The nisheda for a Brahmana is only in the use of Madya and Maithuna, which is permissible when done using milk and other saatvik substances and when one has intercourse with one's wife. The example of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is well known but it is also pertinent to remember that every one is not a Mahaswamy or Chandrasekhara Bharathi or Paramahamsa in thinking or practise. The scope of our sanatana dharma stems from shruti and we cannot transgress it for convenience or paristithi. Many argue that where does Varna dharma exist in India and all, as it is ruled by Shudras everywhere. While it is sadly true, we need to understand that we dont have to further damage by leaving whats left of varnashrama dharma too. I dont intend to belittle any varna here, but all I am saying is Veda has to be followed in our achara. Achara prathamo dharmaha !!! GP --- ganapathy = = vijaya <srividya101 wrote: > Pranaams to Devotees of Mathaji. > > Shree Harshaji's thoughts to Shree Atreya makes an > interesting reading and appears to be idealistic > though I would tend to think like the author on my > first thought but tend to differ from it on > analysis. > > Why I think the observation is idealistic. > > My koti namaskarams to a very few minority of > Brahmins who live as per our Vedic Dharma Sashtras > and i happen to meet one in Sri Mutt Kaanchi -- a > very highly read poor brahmin who doesn't even > charge for his Vaidic services but accepts whatever > is given , in this ever competitive world where one > is chasing materialistic gains from dawn till dusk > and he seem to be very contented the way he was. ( A > true brahmin doesn't keep anything for tomorrow ) > > Such examples are an exception than a rule. While I > am for " A True Varnashrama Dharma " , what is the > scenario to-day -- Does True Varnashrama Exists . > Fearing Chill penury a majority of Brahmins are > averse to make their sons mere vaidikas as they are > too anxious to lead them to a comfortable life and > give them the western education that would prepare > them for an office or a factory job. > > Maha Swamy of Kaanchi out of His Mercy to the > Brahmins while accepting the bleak situation which > exists atleasts asks in the least to every Brahmin > to perform upanayana for their son at the age of > eight and after that the children be given training > atleast for one hour daily in a Veda class after > school hours which should go like this for ten > years. He says that, this is the least that Brahmins > should do to preserve the Vedic tradition . But what > is happening is every body's guess -- even Nithya / > Nymithya karmas have become empty rituals done > without any value or done as per the individual > interpretations or convenience , Gayathri Mantra is > not a Value to many and some may even take pride in > not doing or commenting on it as absurd. The sad > reflection of this Vedic Dharma is even if, few > wants to take up to learning of vedas on part tome , > not enough teachers are available . > > Maha Swamy says that in his decided opinion that the > brahmin is responsible for the ruin of Hindu Society > as he has ignored his mission to spend all his time > in learning and chanting the vedas, in performing > the sacrifices, in preserving the sastras etc. A > brahmin alone is allowed by sastras even to " BEG " > for his living in case he is not able to meet both > the ends after learning the scriptures. ( Please > Read Deivathin Kural Part one and two for > Mahaswamy's commentry on " Who is responsible for > the decay of Vedic Dharma ) > > While I am not Pro or Anti Brahmin , the point I > would like to make on Shree Harsha's observation is > " Whether the Brahmins who have taken to Vaamachara > or Kaulachara were True Brahmins in the first place > performing the Vedokta Karmas." If yes i agree with > his views but sadly such Brahmin Sadhaks whom I have > met so far have not met these criteria and for some > of them the miseries have came out of ABUSE of > " Pancha Makaaraas" and not because they had > followed the Kaula or Vaamachra system of Devi > Upaasana. > > There is a general tendency in South India to > Blindly discourage and discredit the Kaula and > Vaamachara practices without going into the Validity > of its practices and philosophies. > > I would like to remind the devotees of Ma that > Ramakrishna Paramahmsa , a Bengali Brahmin was > initiated to Vaamachara by His Guru " Bhairavi > Brahmi " on direct instructions from the Parashakthi > Devi Herself and that this single instance is enough > to bring glory to Vaamacara. Taking the clue from > this, how one could blindly conclude that these > systems of worship are Avaidic and is not suitable > to a Brahmin. > > Devi is " Aabrahma Keeda Janani " meaning that As a > Mother to the least evolved creature like a worm as > well to the greatest Creator Brahma -- Her love is > Same -- not greater to one than the other. > > Attention is also invited to the meaning of verse > 912 0f LS -- Savyapasavya Margastha -- She who is > contemplted through Vedic ways and also Apasavyam -- > Tantric Ways like the Vaamachara as in Kaalika > puranas - also refer to meaning of kowla > margatatparasevitha. > > Regards > > Jai Maa who is " Savyapasavya Margastha" > > ganapathy > > > Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: > shrIH > I received the following from Shri Harsha ji and > thought of sharing with the group. > Rgds > --- Harsha Ramamurthy > <harsha_ramamurthy wrote: > > "Harsha Ramamurthy" > > <harsha_ramamurthy > > <srinath_atreya, > > <satisharigela > > A few thoughts to share > > Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:06:32 +0530 > > > > Sri Gurubhyo namaH. > > The name 'varNAshramavidhAyinI' of Nama Sahasri > > clearly illustrates the relevance and even > > importance of Varna and Ashramas even in a path > like > > Srividya. People who have had no Vedadhikara have > > pumped in ideas like Varnashrama Rahitya into > > Tantric thought. The above name in LS clearly > > refutes their claims. It is the Sruti that is > always > > considered the highest pramAna for all > methaphysical > > matters, be it with regard to Srividya or not. In > > Samaya and Dakshina paths, there are sixteen > > important Dikshas starting from Shuddha Vidya to > > Maha Paduka. In Kaula, the Diksha list mentions 32 > > Dikshas, ending with Anuttara. As Sri > Jnanandanatha > > clearly points in his LS book, some Brahmanas from > > the southern regions of Kerala and Tamil Nadu came > > in contact with Upasakas from Bengal and Central > > India who were followers of Vamachara and began to > > follow the same, assuming it is the right Vedic > > path. It is a very sorry thing to note that even > > today there are a vast number of Brahmanas in > south > > who continue to follow Vama and Kaula practices > > without even being aware of it. They even go to > the > > level of claiming their practices as being taught > > originally by Adi shankara. The guidelines by the > > two Shankara Mutts are not being followed > properly. > > A Brahmana, who gives up Vedokta Karmas and takes > to > > Kaula faces Daridrya and Vamsha Nasha. There have > > been ample examples of people, some regarded even > as > > incarnations, who have suffered miserably in life > > and have lost sons at a young age. Though Maha > > Paduka etc. are not a part of Kaula system, people > > have adopted the Mahapaduka and some other mantras > > and have created a sort of Mishrachara cult. The > > practices of Vama and Kaula modes are essentially > > for the Chaturtha varna and those without > > Vedadhikara. > > > > > > > > Further continuing from the previous post, > practices > > like offering tarpana with the left hand to the > > deity's left hand, Makara use etc. are banned by > the > > Shubagama Panchakas as fit only for pashus. It is > > high time to stop glamorizing Vamachara with > > statements such as: it is fit for elevated > Sadhakas > > - Why does an elevated Sadhaka need any Sadhana?, > It > > is a difficult path not fit for all - Why discuss > a > > path which is so narrow in approach? > > > > The main problem with Srividya as related to Kaula > > comes into being becuase most follow Saubhagya > > Bhaskara commentary of Bhaskararaya who gives > Kaula > > para interpretations to many names. Some of his > > interpretations are far from truth. There are lots > > of flaws in his Bhashya. He says, Devi has sthula, > > sukshma and para forms. What he fails to mention > is > > that the Brahman which is Nishkala is Devi and > hence > > there is no Yatharthya in these Bhedas. Like the > > colours and objects appearing in a clear mirror, > > these are also untrue. It would thus be necessary > to > > educate people about other Bhashyas on LS like > > Swapnabodhini, Vaidyanathiya, Srikala, > === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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