Dasa Avathara of Maha Vishnu and Dasa Maha Vidyas

[Guest guest]

Pranams.

 

 

 

The Dasa Avatara of Maha Vishnu has connection with the Dasa Maha Vidya of Devi

as per Munda Mala Tantra :

 

 

 

 

 

Dasa Maha Vidya Coresponds to Avathara Chakra in

our body

 

( Of Maha Vishnu )

 

 

 

Kaali …………………………….. Krishna ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Anahatha

 

 

 

Tara …………………………….. Rama, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Manipuraka

 

( Above )

 

Sundari …………………………….. Kalki ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Sahasrara

 

( North East )

 

Bhuvaneshwari …………………….. Varaha ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Anahatha

 

(West )

 

Bhairavi …………………………….. Nirushimha ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Moola adhara

 

( Below )

 

Chinnamastha ………………………. Parasurama ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Agnya

 

(East )

 

Dhumavathi ………………………… Vaamana ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Samadhi State

 

( South East )

 

Bhagalamukhi ………………………. Kuurma ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Shankini

 

( South )

 

Mathangi …………………………….. Bhudha ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Vishuddhi

 

( North West )

 

Kamalathmikka ……………………… Mathsya ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Not Mentioned

 

( South West )

 

 

 

The Directions in Which these forms first appeared.

 

 

 

Jai Maha Vidya “ Sathi Devi “ who took these 10 forms.

 

 

 

 

Ganapathy --- Vijaya

 

" Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari "

 

" Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath "

 

 

 

 

Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online

 

 

[Guest guest]

, ganapathy = = vijaya

<srividya101> wrote:

> The Dasa Avatara of Maha Vishnu has connection with the Dasa Maha

>Vidya of Devi as per Munda Mala Tantra :

> Sundari …………………………….. Kalki ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sahasrara

>

> ( North East )

 

 

Nice to know the relation but I feel uncomfortable when Sundari is

equated with Kalki.

 

Also surprising is that Kalki is placed in Sahasrara while

Nrisimha, Rama and Krishna are placed elsewhere.

 

I guess Ravi did not like the Mathangi-Buddha comparison.

 

Rgds

Satish.

[Guest guest]

, "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...> wrote:

> Not specifically. But I think that tantra is unreliable and false,

just by

> looking at that posted content. Since I am heavily biased against

most

> works that go by the name tantra, I requested an expert opinion on

this

> matter.

 

 

LS: 206 - sarvatantrarUpA - She is the spirit of all tantras.

Ls: 290 - sakalAgama sandohashutkisaMpuTamauktikA

Ls: 724 - sarvatantreshI

 

Since She is real, tantras are not false.

 

Rgds

 

>

> shriimatre namaH

>

> Ravi

[Guest guest]

, "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...> wrote:

> I did not say all "tantras" are false.

 

Sorry. My misunderstanding.

 

> For instance, I can write 10 lines and add "iishvara uvaacha" and

call it

> xyz tantra and put it on ambaa-site claiming it is an ancient

tantric text

> that was found in kashmir. Assuming 200 years from now, somebody

gets it and

> how does he or she know it is not a tantra? And how does he or she

know that

> it was not iishvara who said it? Just because something is known

for more

> than 300 or 400 years does not make it genuine and correct. I have

this

> basic suspicion. This is why I am biased against it.

 

 

That seems quite possible. So it is right that tantras can be made

up and I was told that one needs to be cautious while accepting them

as authorities. There is also a standard list of 64 tantras and only

those are considered genuine.

 

 

>Hence, I think the

> content of the tantra should be critically studied in the back drop

shruti,

> smriti, and puraNa. If it does not add value by extending that

knowledge in

> the big three into practice, then you can safely put the text in

the

> nearest recycle bin. You will be only deluded by it.

 

 

Devi gita says the same as above.

 

May be we can also see if the particular tantra we are doubtful of,

is quoted in famous works or if any commentary exists it.

 

 

> I should have been more clear. The "that" in the "that tantra"

sentence

> (which I wrote and you have quoted) meant only "munda mala

tantra". I may

> be wrong. But I think, this "munda maala tantra" is not be genuine.

Hence, I

> said I think it is false. You show me a quote from sringeri or

kanchi

> sankaracharya from this text

 

I havent read the entire Srividyarnava (even if I read it, I wont

understand a thing from it anyway :-)), but the preface of the book I

have, lists all pramana granthas which are probably quoted in the

text. Munda Mala tantra is listed as one of them. It is well known

that Swami Vidyaranya is the author of this text and also the

Shankaracharya of Sringeri.

 

May be there are interpolations in tantras eventhough it is a

little difficult compared to making up a whole new tantra.

 

Rgds

[Guest guest]

, "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...> wrote:

> It will be nice to know what was quoted from

> the text (MMT) and in what context.

 

Few texts are quoted in the Srividyarnava more than once.

MMT is quoted while elaborating on various methods of purscharana.

The quoted 5 or 6 verses include some vamachara though.

Somebody familiar with Srividyarnava may know where else MMT is

quoted.

 

Rgds

[Guest guest]

I happened to chance upon this comparison in a famous tantra site.

---------------------------

Tara Devi is the blue form, Bagala is the tortoise incarnation,

Dhumavati is the boar, Cchinnamasta is Nrisimha, Bhuvaneshvari is

Vamana, Matangi is the Rama form, Tripura is Jamadagni, Bhairavi is

Balabhadra, Mahalakshmi is Buddha, and Durga is the Kalki form.

Bhagavati Kali is the Krishna murti."

-----------------------------

The above is said to be from Todala tantra. Probably these

comparisons is only meant to stress Her being non-different from

Narayana and "maybe" need not be taken avatara for avatara literally.

 

Rgds

 

, ganapathy = = vijaya

<srividya101> wrote:

>

> Pranams.

>

> The Aforesaid information is from the Book " Dasa Maha Vidya

Rahasyam " published during the Navarathri of 1985 by Shree Gyna

Baskara Sangam and authored by

> Pujya Shree Goda Venkateshwara Sastrygal who has obtained a title

from Sringeri Mutt as " AN OCEAN OF KNOWLEDGE ".

>

> This relationship between Dasa Avathra of Maha Vishnu and Devi's

Dasa Maha Vidya has not been given in any context but in a simple and

clear manner as indicated in the mail.

>

> The Sri Vidya tradition and sadhana has been given to us and

prescribed -- by way of Guru ParamparA -- so that the way may be

known to us and the goal is reached by the sadhak by the same means

including the understanding of Tantras as putforth by the Guru, and

through the same companionship with the Divine Mother's manifest

Vibuhuthis as the revealers of the light.

>

> Jai Munda Mala Tantra

>

> ganapathy

>

>

> "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...> wrote:

>

> > I guess Ravi did not like the Mathangi-Buddha comparison.

> >

> > Rgds

> > Satish.

> >

> Not specifically. But I think that tantra is unreliable and false,

just by

> looking at that posted content. Since I am heavily biased against

most

> works that go by the name tantra, I requested an expert opinion on

this

> matter.

>

> shriimatre namaH

>

> Ravi

>

>

>

> --

> pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH

> sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa .

> svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM

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>

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>

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[Guest guest]

After reading the original shlokas from mundamaala tantra and a few

other works on Dashamahavidya I think the message conveyed is quite

different from the normal understanding that we get in comparing one

to one.

 

Here is the original shloka from mundamaala tantra,

 

kR^ishNastu kALikaa saakShaat rAma mUrtischa taariNii.

varaaho bhuvanaa proktaa nR^isimho mauraviishvarii..

kamalaa matsya rUpasyAt kUrmastu bhagaLaamukhii.

dhuumaavatii vaamanaH syaat chinnaa bR^igukulodbhavaH..

maatangii bhauddha itiyeShaa shoDashii kalkiruupiNii ..

 

 

The idea conveyed here is not a comparison of one vidhya to an

avatara, but an explanation of what potency was behind the great

actions of these avatara-s.

 

The shakti or potency of,

.. Kali was with Krishna when he crushed the demons and established

Dharma.

.. Tara was with Rama when he protected the sages and offered shelter.

.. Bhuvaneshwari was with Varaha when he lifted and sheltered all

beings.

.. Tripura bhairavi was with Narasimha when he ripped Hiranyakashipu

and sheltered Prahlada.

.. Dhumavati was with Vamana when he concealed his potency and deluded

Mahabali.

.. Chinnamastha was with Parashuraama when he slit the throats of

thousands of immoral kshatraiyas.

.. Kamala was with Matsya when he sheltered and nourished the created

beings.

.. Bhagala was with Kurma when he demonstrated his power of lifting

mount Meru.

.. Matangi was with Buddha when he was enlightened.

.. Tripurasundari will be with Kalki when he reestablishes Yuga Dharma.

 

In my humble opinion it is a nice comparison if you interpret it this

way. There is a lot of scope for eloboration on each one of these

(compare bhuvana rakShaNatvam, sarva jiiva kaaruNya and other

characteristics of Bhuvaneshvari to that of lifting the whole world,

the conversation between Varaha and bhumidevi where he assures that

he will not let even a single Jiva down and assures that he will

guide every one 'nayaami paramaam gatim' like guiding a blind man to

his destination. etc… taaraka naama vs taariNii and so on)

 

I think it is inappropriate to understand the comparison as one to

one like Tripurasundari = Kalki, that does not do justice to the

original shloka from the Tantra or other puranic and tantric

literature. It is clearly stated in Brahmanda purana that the ten

incarnations of Vishnu manifested from the ten finger nails of Lalita

Devi, counting this we can not say Tripurasundari 'incarnated' as

Kalki. (Varahi(bhagala) for Varaha, Matangi for Rama, Narasimhi for

Narasimha, Kali/Tripurasundari for Krishna and so on are more a

direct equal)

 

That's my 2c.

 

Now my biased opinion that might not be of much value,

 

The concept of grouping the incarnations of Sriman Narayana and

Lalita under dashaavatara and dashamahaavidyaa is of a very later age

(At least they are post major puranas and tantras).

 

References to Tripurasundari, Kali, Matangi are found in many puranas

including the Vishnu purana and Devi Bhagavatam. I don't think

grouping them as Dashamahaavidhya is mentioned anywhere in Devi

Bhagavatam, but there is a reference in the Shiva purana. I think

they are portrayed as ten different incarnations of Durga. I am not

sure if the names are listed, but I think the term 'dashamahaavidyaa'

occurs there. (From my memory, needs verification.)

 

 

Neither Vishnu purana nor Srimad Bhagavatam groups Lord Vishnu's

incarnation as Dashavatara. But references like 'naaraayaNa

dashaakritiH' are seen in Brahmaanda purana, padma purana and other

Smriti works.

 

The popularity of one avatar over the other has also varied from time

to time. I think Trivikrama (vamana) avatara was favored in the early

stages, we see this in Veda suktas and in the works of early Alwars.

Favoring Rama and Krishna was definitely after the Puranic age.

Several Varaha temples were built during Pallava and Chalukya periods

and so on. We see Periyalwar and Kulashekaralwar who belong to the

later periods favoring Krishna and Rama.

 

Thirumangai-Alwar who belonged to the early 8 or 9 AD has sung the

dashavatara in the popular order. 'miinodu aamai vezal ari

kuLanaai .. munnum iraamanai pinnum iraamanai taanai . . .' (It's

from my memory, may have errors).

 

I think Gautama Buddha was accepted as an incarnation of Vishnu from

one point and much of the literature from there on acknowledged this.

This idea was not popular in the South and hence neither Srivaishnava

nor Kerala vaishnava traditions have honored this.

 

To answer the question, What was Shankara's opinion on this?, would

depend on what works of his do you accept as authored by him. Let us

leave Dashavatara stotra. Many of the Shankara vijayam-s mentions him

praising both Lord Shiva and Vishnu with padaadikeshaanta stotra-s

(there is also a keshaadipadanta stotra on Lord Shiva)

 

The Vishnu paddadi keshaanta varNana stotram has a very interesting

shloka,

 

matsyaH kuurmo varaaho narapatirvaamano jaamadagnyaH

kaakusthaH kamsadhaatii manasijavijayii yashcha kalkirbhaviShyan .

viShNoramShaavataaraa bhuvanahitakaraa dharmasamsthaapanaarthaaH

paayaasurmaa.m ta ete gurutarakaruNaabhaarakhinnaashayaa ye.. 49..

 

After Krishna avatara he refers to 'manasija vijayii' (The conqueror

of cupid) as an avatara. Is he refering to Buddha ?

 

If you accept the reference was to Buddha, we can reconcile that

Shankara condemned the philosophy of Buddhisum, Pancharatra, Shakta

tantra and so on, but did not entertain aversion towards Buddha,

Shiva, Vishnu or Shakti as deities.

 

Note : The book, 'The ten greatcosmic powers' by S.Shankara Narayanan

is a good source of information on Dashamaha vidhya. I think it is a

very good start. Ganapati Muni's Uma sahasram, Upanishad commentrory

by Kapali shasti and Aurobindo's Savitri are also good sources. I

think it will be beneficial to read these before reading any Tantic

text.

 

Comments are welcome.

Aravind

[Guest guest]

, "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...> wrote:

> namaste Sri Ganapathyji:

>

> Thanks for your valuable references. I will study them carefully,

but when I

> have the ability to do so. But looking at the one I know, I think

they must

> be deemed as rahasyaartha-s (hidden meaning) or special

interpretation which

> may lack universal acceptance.

>

 

The Vedic mantras and the Upanishad vidhyas posted by Shri Ganapathi

were assigned by Kavyakhantha Ganapati muni. What I gathered after

reading some of his thoughts is that, his works were the ones to give

a lot of Vedic connotations to Dashamaha vidhya upasana. Though they

were popular deities in vamachara, Ganapati muni had gone to a great

deal in interpreting their Upasana with more internal connotations.

My humble opinion is that these Mantras or the Upanishads are not

Vedic pramana-s for Dahsmaha Vidya, nor did Ganapati Muni intend to

show them as Pramanas. All that he did was to establish that the

worship could be brought within the realm of Vaidika dharma.

 

shrii maatre namaH

Aravind

[Guest guest]

Shri Ganapati Muni's work titled, DashaMaha Vidya sutravali has some

relevant information on this.

 

The nature, mantra, and qualities of each devata in the dasha maha

vidyas are discussed in this work.

 

Rgds

 

, "seeksha" <seeksha@h...> wrote:

> The Vedic mantras and the Upanishad vidhyas posted by Shri

Ganapathi

> were assigned by Kavyakhantha Ganapati muni. What I gathered after

> reading some of his thoughts is that, his works were the ones to

give

> a lot of Vedic connotations to Dashamaha vidhya upasana. Though

they

> were popular deities in vamachara, Ganapati muni had gone to a

great

> deal in interpreting their Upasana with more internal connotations.

> My humble opinion is that these Mantras or the Upanishads are not

> Vedic pramana-s for Dahsmaha Vidya, nor did Ganapati Muni intend to

> show them as Pramanas. All that he did was to establish that the

> worship could be brought within the realm of Vaidika dharma.

>

> shrii maatre namaH

> Aravind

[Guest guest]

Respected shri Aravind,

 

Thank you so much for a fine interpretation of the comnnection

between dasha mahavidyas and the dasha avarars. Each postt in this

thread has been very informative. our thanks to shri ganapathy for

starting the thread. We are also grateful to Harsha for a fine

explanation on this subject. and of course, shri

ravi added other dimensions to this fine topic.

 

our respected Aravind writes...

 

> I do agree, that they do not refer to the popular ten incarnations.

> But my observation was, different texts have made attempts to

> associate the ten incarnations in different ways and hence there

need not be too much concern about the chronology.

 

True. VERY TRUE.

 

God/ess will hear your prayer through His/her All-pervading

ears: "Sarvatah panipadam tat sarvatokshi-siromukham."--"Everywhere

It has ears, everywhere It has eyes." It can see what you do even in

the remotest corner of this world, and It can hear what you say

wherever you are. Your prayers will be heard, and this would be a

service that you do to your own Atman, your soul, for its salvation.

 

the point is you can meditate on "maatangi" or "buddha" .... in

whatever form you choose ... it is the "sadhana" that is important...

 

Aum sree matangayaii namaha!!!

[Guest guest]

It is important to realize there are more many variations as pointed

out.

 

At the same token why this variation ever occurred, or was such

variation introduced by the scholars of that period for achieving a

specific objective is very interesting.

 

A logical analysis can easily bring out the significance. A simple

application of brahmasuutra, "athaato brhahmajij~naasaa || I.i.1||"

in the light of social structure and political conditions of that

period one can arrive at meaningful results. However, such

discussion may be out of the scope of this list.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

 

 

, "seeksha" <seeksha@h...> wrote:

> , "M. S. Ravisankar" <ravi@a...>

wrote:

>

> > The reference to 10 incarnations from the toe nails do not refer

to

> the

> > actual 10 incarnations, but the one that was generated in the

> battle field

>

> Ravi,

>

> I do agree, that they do not refer to the popular ten incarnations.

> But my observation was, different texts have made attempts to

> associate the ten incarnations in different ways and hence there

need

> not be too much concern about the chronology.

>

> shrii maatre namaH

> Aravind