Guest guest Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I have read and heard that when Adi Shankaracharya had arguments on veda and other shartras with Mandana Mishra in Kashmir his wife was acted as judge in the argument. Listening to both arguments and giving a judgement needs a deep knowledge. That says that during those days also woman was studying vedas and all other shastras. Barring women from learing and chanting may be a subsequent development. We learn from mythological stories that Arundhati, Anasuya and many Gurumatas were welversed in vedas. Jai Mahamaye, Gurudutt Rao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Prohibition is only for chanting and not for learning its contents. Most women do learn a lot of these by just hearing/discussing with their father, husband, sons, etc. Hence, some one could be very well versed and very knowledgeable, without chanting or learning to chant. And none would object if someone picks up a translation of iishavasya upanishad and reads it. Chanting veda-s is more of a task and sometimes not having such obligations makes life lot easier and helps focus on bhakti. For instance, a dvIja (first three varNa-s brahmaNa, xatriya, and vaishya) male has a lot of obligatory duties. For instance, I can not just read shivAnandalahari and lalita sahasranAma; and ignore doing sandhya. If I do that -- I am sinning. Basic minimum set of three sandhya vandanams, brahma yajnA (without considering agni kArya-s, which very few do) will take a lot of time. Skipping them is accruing sin. Skipping them and saying lalitA sahasranAmam will not make ambaa happy either. The obligatory rites placed on a dvIja, especially a brahmaNa male is one of great responsibility and hard work -- definitely not a privilege. You can read this in Hindu Dharma by paramAcharya (which is available online), he lists all the things one must do. If I am not mistaken, in bhagavata there is a statement which says that in kali, shudra and women are better off as they do not have such a rigid obligatory duties and can devote their minds to hari with simple bhakti. For others, they have to pay the price for omission and error, etc. etc. I think, Sri Ganesh gave a convincing answer. The fundamental thing in smArta sampradAya is, smrti is as good as shruti (as long as it does not contradict it). This is a matter of faith and has not changed for few thousand years. Hence, even if you cannot find an internal evidence in shruti, knowledge in smrti-s make up for it. Of course, this is the same place where neo-vedAnta schools disagree. The other flaw we find in the sampradaya these days, the rigidity with rules are applied to men and women are different, to the extent of double standards. But ultimately, ambaa is the judge and after all running this cosmos is HER business. ( I will create FAQ based on Sri Ganesh's reply and paramacharya's quotation -- as this is the the 3rd time this question is coming up) Ravi > > Mr V.Gurunatha Rao [raogurudutt] > Thursday, April 15, 2004 5:23 AM > > Re: Why gAyatrI mantra is Restricted > > > I have read and heard that when Adi Shankaracharya had > arguments on veda and other shartras with Mandana > Mishra in Kashmir his wife was acted as judge in the > argument. Listening to both arguments and giving a > judgement needs a deep knowledge. That says that > during those days also woman was studying vedas and > all other shastras. Barring women from learing and > chanting may be a subsequent development. We learn > from mythological stories that Arundhati, Anasuya and > many Gurumatas were welversed in vedas. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Pauranic/Vedic lore should be interpreted with the yugas in mind. As the yugas progressed the restrictions grew based on the capacity of mankind (which decreased). All samskaras are conducted according to the Smriti/Sutras applicable to that period. As has been taught to me, for a dwija chanting Gayatri is a duty/obligation and not a choice. He chants it for the well being of the society and not for any personal gain. However this is not the case now, there are very few brahmins in the true sense (this is my personal opinion here). Even as recent as my grand fathers time in our village, most dwijas who were not vaidikas became at the most teachers. Priorities changed, ambitions grew and a lot of them (us, yours truly included) moved into other fields like law and other professions where the objectives of the profession and a brahminical outlook where inherently contradictory. However one may point out that Samskaras have a way of changing with the times afterall the Sutras and Smritis have evolved over time etc, there are efforts to define new sastras, new dharmic samskaras as against sastrik/vaidik samskaras etc.. in a lot of places in India (I seen this in Pune) there are lady priests performing all the samskaras. I have seen a wedding officiated by one, she did as good a job as any male purohit. However the Smriti/Sruti for this yuga has already been provided for and comming up with a navya sastra on the basis of our puny intelect (in kali yuga our intelect is diminished hence even nama parayanam is said to be sufficient) may not be a feasible proposition. As a smarta questioning the smriti/sruti/vedas is not an option, in our sankalpam we say 'srauta, smarta vihita...' what is open to discussion is the philosophical content i.e. the vedantas Also there are other angles to this discussion, Srividya upasakas irrespective of their gender etc.. can chant any mantra including bala/atibala, mrityunjaya etc... without requiring dIksha, I do not know what is right or what is wrong, in such moments I follow the teachings of the paramacharya and the values of my family and adapt it to suit my current circumstances (quite hypocritically at times). regards Vishwanathan --- "Mr V.Gurunatha Rao" <raogurudutt wrote: > I have read and heard that when Adi Shankaracharya > had > arguments on veda and other shartras with Mandana > Mishra in Kashmir his wife was acted as judge in the > argument. Listening to both arguments and giving a > judgement needs a deep knowledge. That says that > during those days also woman was studying vedas and > all other shastras. Barring women from learing and > chanting may be a subsequent development. We learn > from mythological stories that Arundhati, Anasuya > and > many Gurumatas were welversed in vedas. > > Jai Mahamaye, > Gurudutt Rao > > > > Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes./filing.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Pranams. We tend to bend the sastras to suit our needs, interpret to our conveniences , Act to our likes and dislikes justifying the acts, influencing others, change the perceptions and in process we produce N number of pseudo Rishies ( if you permit me to use this word )generation after generation acting to their whims and fancies, diluting our Vedic traditions and its great values to a point, in this Kali Yuga , that the Dharmasashtras would appear to have lost all the values and meanings that once it was intended for. while one may be saddened at it this divine drama of Devi happening right in front of us , this appears perfect , as set in this background , Amba would bring the New Kalki Avatar of Maha Vishnu into picture. Mahswamy says in page 104 of Hindu Dharma -- "The original home of the Vedas is Tamil country where Manu had lived. It was here that Vedic learning, Atmic enlightenment and devotion attained their heights of glory. It is beleived that as the age of Kali comes to close, KALKI the tenth incarnation of Vishnu will be born in the TIRUNELVELI region of DRAVIDA LAND with the mission of protecting the Vedas. He will be born the son of a brahmin who will be steadfast in performing THE DUTIES OF HIS BIRTH -- so it is mentioned in puranas." All said and done it is not a doomsday for the Hindus. Jaya Jaya Shankara Hara Hara Shankara. Ganapthy vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy <krishvishy wrote: Pauranic/Vedic lore should be interpreted with the yugas in mind. As the yugas progressed the restrictions grew based on the capacity of mankind (which decreased). All samskaras are conducted according to the Smriti/Sutras applicable to that period. Priorities changed, ambitions grew and a lot of them (us, yours truly included) moved into other fields like law and other professions where the objectives of the profession and a brahminical outlook where inherently contradictory. However one may point out that Samskaras have a way of changing with the times afterall the Sutras and Smritis have evolved over time etc, there are efforts to define new sastras, new dharmic samskaras as against sastrik/vaidik samskaras etc.. However the Smriti/Sruti for this yuga has already been provided for and comming up with a navya sastra on the basis of our puny intelect (in kali yuga our intelect is diminished hence even nama parayanam is said to be sufficient) may not be a feasible proposition. I do not know what is right or what is wrong, in such moments I follow the teachings of the paramacharya and the values of my family and adapt it to suit my current circumstances (quite hypocritically at times). regards Vishwanathan --- "Mr V.Gurunatha Rao" <raogurudutt wrote: > I have read and heard that when Adi Shankaracharya > had > arguments on veda and other shartras with Mandana > Mishra in Kashmir his wife was acted as judge in the > argument. Listening to both arguments and giving a > judgement needs a deep knowledge. That says that > during those days also woman was studying vedas and > all other shastras. Barring women from learing and > chanting may be a subsequent development. We learn > from mythological stories that Arundhati, Anasuya > and > many Gurumatas were welversed in vedas. > > Jai Mahamaye, > Gurudutt Rao > > > > Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes./filing.html -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help / Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " Tax Center - File online by April 15th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Some of the quotes of Maha Swamy From Hindu Dharma : people are caught between two groups holding opposing views. on the one side they feel the pull of individuals like us who maintain that they must take the path shown by sastras, on the other they find themselves drawn in the opposite directions of reformers who want it to be changed. from the youthful age people are used to reading reports extolling the changes that go by the name of reforms. it is all due to the influence of Modern education. all this notwithstanding, people have not altogether given up the old customs. a fraction of the dharmas laid down in the sastras and followed for ages is still to be seen in our domestic and social life. if we start making small compromises in our adherence to the sastras, it will eventually mean following only such scriptural practices as we find convenient in our everyday life. Some people tell me with all good intentions. " the dharmasastras are the creation of rishies and you are like a rishi. you must make changes in keeping with times". their view is that just as we remove weeds from the fields we must change our customs and duties according to our times. If I take out some rites and observances from the sastras now, thinking to be weeds later another man will turn up and remove some more for the same reason. at this rate , a time will come when we will not be able to distinguish the wed from the crop and the entire field will become barren. it is important to realise that if we are to remain true to the sastras it is not because they represent the views of the seers but because they contain the rules founded on vedas which are nothing but what Eswara has ORDAINED. I have no authority to change them. Maha Swamy further says that it is because of our endless desires and Consumerism that we are not able to live a simple life. These compell us to run after money due to which it becomes difficult for us to practice Dharma . Jai Jagath Gurudev ganapathy vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy <krishvishy wrote: Pauranic/Vedic lore should be interpreted with the yugas in mind. As the yugas progressed the restrictions grew based on the capacity of mankind (which decreased). All samskaras are conducted according to the Smriti/Sutras applicable to that period. Priorities changed, ambitions grew and a lot of them (us, yours truly included) moved into other fields like law and other professions where the objectives of the profession and a brahminical outlook where inherently contradictory. However one may point out that Samskaras have a way of changing with the times afterall the Sutras and Smritis have evolved over time etc, there are efforts to define new sastras, new dharmic samskaras as against sastrik/vaidik samskaras etc.. in a lot of places in India (I seen this in Pune) there are lady priests performing all the samskaras. I have seen a wedding officiated by one, she did as good a job as any male purohit. However the Smriti/Sruti for this yuga has already been provided for and comming up with a navya sastra on the basis of our puny intelect (in kali yuga our intelect is diminished hence even nama parayanam is said to be sufficient) may not be a feasible proposition. Also there are other angles to this discussion, Srividya upasakas irrespective of their gender etc.. can chant any mantra including bala/atibala, mrityunjaya etc... without requiring dIksha, regards Vishwanathan --- "Mr V.Gurunatha Rao" <raogurudutt wrote: > I have read and heard that when Adi Shankaracharya > had > arguments on veda and other shartras with Mandana > Mishra in Kashmir his wife was acted as judge in the > argument. Listening to both arguments and giving a > judgement needs a deep knowledge. That says that > during those days also woman was studying vedas and > all other shastras. Barring women from learing and > chanting may be a subsequent development. We learn > from mythological stories that Arundhati, Anasuya > and > many Gurumatas were welversed in vedas. > > Jai Mahamaye, > Gurudutt Rao > > > > Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes./filing.html -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help / Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " Tax Center - File online by April 15th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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