Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Namaste, The primodial rule in any shastra of sanatana dharma is that a guru is required unless one is a jnani due to his poorva samskaras. Bhavanopanishad starts by saying "Guru sarva karana bhoota shaktihi" The glory of the guru as the person who dispels darkness in unmatched and cannot be replaced becasue of the same fact. While, certain fractions of Srividya Upasakas do believe that Srividya confers an automatic adhikara for other mantras, it is a debatable contention. If the same were to be true, does it follow that one can see a book and get initiated in shodashi, mahashodashi, maha paduka etc after receiving panchadashi? The veracity of the statement is weak by its very own logic. Besides it is sampradaya siddha that guru is required for initiation and he actually has to place his feet on the head of the student in Mahashodashi Diksha. Which each sampradaya may vary on this, gayathri mantra being a vaidika mantra requires a guru. Even purohits do not know the correct gayathri mantra today due its inherent conflicts in nichrud gayathri chandas and gayathri chandas (They are different as gayathri chandas means 24 aksharas while the classic gayathri mantra is 23 only)let alone some one from a text book. Even if one were to chant it from a book which shakha will the swara reflect as the swara differs for all the four veda shakhas. What about the sheeksha and pratishakya aspect of the mantra as regards logical pause, matra, varna jnana, udatta anudatta pratibheda etc etc etc...Which form of chandas is used in arghya and japa? These are pertinent questions which most brahmanas chanting the mantra daily are not aware of. How then can a uninitiated person know the nuances with out a guru? My 2 cents, GP --- sudarshan balasubramanian <sudarshanbalasubramanian wrote: > > Sri Rama Jayam > > Namaskarams to all. > > I have been following the ongoing discussion > regarding the Gayatri mantram. I read a mail by one > of the members of the group that SriVidya Upasakas > can say any mantram, be it Bala, Mruthyunjaya, and > others. I have a doubt here. Does initiation into > SriVidya Upasana require initiation into Gayatri > mantram also? I am asking this because I've read > that initiation into any mantram without being > initiated into the Gayathri will not be of any > value. If this is the case, then there are several > women Sri Upasakis and also several upasakas that > are not Brahmanas. Will they have been initiated > into the Gayathri before getting the Sri upasana or > won't they be? Is there any exemption for the women > or the others to directly get the Sri Upasana > without the Gayathri initiation? > > I request the knowledgeable people of this group to > enlighten me regarding this. > > Regards, > > Sudarshan Iyer > > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Namsthe Excellent; humble pranams for you. kaushik(s.krishnamoorthy) --- Ganesh Prasad <bjganeshprasad wrote: > Namaste, > > The primodial rule in any shastra of sanatana > dharma > is that a guru is required unless one is a jnani due > to his poorva samskaras. > > Bhavanopanishad starts by saying "Guru sarva karana > bhoota shaktihi" > > The glory of the guru as the person who dispels > darkness in unmatched and cannot be replaced becasue > of the same fact. > > While, certain fractions of Srividya Upasakas do > believe that Srividya confers an automatic adhikara > for other mantras, it is a debatable contention. > > If the same were to be true, does it follow that one > can see a book and get initiated in shodashi, > mahashodashi, maha paduka etc after receiving > panchadashi? The veracity of the statement is weak > by > its very own logic. > > Besides it is sampradaya siddha that guru is > required > for initiation and he actually has to place his feet > on the head of the student in Mahashodashi Diksha. > > Which each sampradaya may vary on this, gayathri > mantra being a vaidika mantra requires a guru. > > Even purohits do not know the correct gayathri > mantra > today due its inherent conflicts in nichrud gayathri > chandas and gayathri chandas (They are different as > gayathri chandas means 24 aksharas while the classic > gayathri mantra is 23 only)let alone some one from a > text book. Even if one were to chant it from a book > which shakha will the swara reflect as the swara > differs for all the four veda shakhas. What about > the > sheeksha and pratishakya aspect of the mantra as > regards logical pause, matra, varna jnana, udatta > anudatta pratibheda etc etc etc...Which form of > chandas is used in arghya and japa? These are > pertinent questions which most brahmanas chanting > the > mantra daily are not aware of. > > How then can a uninitiated person know the nuances > with out a guru? > > My 2 cents, > > GP > > --- sudarshan balasubramanian > <sudarshanbalasubramanian wrote: > > > > Sri Rama Jayam > > > > Namaskarams to all. > > > > I have been following the ongoing discussion > > regarding the Gayatri mantram. I read a mail by > one > > of the members of the group that SriVidya Upasakas > > can say any mantram, be it Bala, Mruthyunjaya, and > > others. I have a doubt here. Does initiation into > > SriVidya Upasana require initiation into Gayatri > > mantram also? I am asking this because I've read > > that initiation into any mantram without being > > initiated into the Gayathri will not be of any > > value. If this is the case, then there are several > > women Sri Upasakis and also several upasakas that > > are not Brahmanas. Will they have been initiated > > into the Gayathri before getting the Sri upasana > or > > won't they be? Is there any exemption for the > women > > or the others to directly get the Sri Upasana > > without the Gayathri initiation? > > > > I request the knowledgeable people of this group > to > > enlighten me regarding this. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sudarshan Iyer > > > > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > Try it! > http://webhosting./ps/sb/ > ______________________ India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 You have succinently put what I tried to say in many posts. Jayaraman <jayaraman.v wrote: As far as I know, There is no pre-condition to have Gayathri for other mantrams. Yes, Once you have Gayathri, No Mantram is effective unless nitya-karma of gayathri japam is completed. Without completion of that, All your other japams, including Srividya, is as fruitful as a wood without fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Yes a Guru is essential. But it is also said in Parasurama kalpasootra about the sarwamantraadhikaaratwm. it is also said "Veda mataa Gayatri, tanmaataa shodashi" It is also said that one gets shodashi only if he is in his last janma or is Shiva himself. Thse will explain things I think. Ganesh Prasad <bjganeshprasad wrote: Namaste, The primodial rule in any shastra of sanatana dharma is that a guru is required unless one is a jnani due to his poorva samskaras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Namaste, Sri Jayaraman u speak the truth. That is indeed the sad state of affairs. GP --- Jayaraman <jayaraman.v wrote: > > > As far as I know, There is no pre-condition to have > Gayathri for other > mantrams. > > Yes, Once you have Gayathri, No Mantram is effective > unless nitya-karma of > gayathri japam is completed. Without completion of > that, All your other > japams, including Srividya, is as fruitful as a wood > without fire. > > Gayathri is for all dwijas. Not a property of > brahmins. The practice of > vedic rituals for non-brahmins have slowly been > dis-continued due to the > 'perceived non-shastric way' by non-brahmins over a > period of time. Now that > almost all brahmins are also 'chandaalas' as not > performing nitya karmas, I > think what our forefathers will do now? > > But, Coming to Gayathri, The present practice is so > bad that almost all the > upanayams which are conducted are without the > sanction from sashtras. > > Upanayam is to be followed by four days of > samitaa-daanam (preserving agni) > at the same place where brahmopadesam is performed. > No one does that. > Everyone vacates the mandapam same evening. This > makes the karma useless. > > Also, Many families perform upanayam without > completing one year from the > date of the demise of any other their close > relatives (10 day daayadi - > like grandmother for example). This has happened to > various my friends' > families also. I couldn't say anything except cry > silently. Their reason > for all this is that they have already fianlized the > travel plans from US > etc. and they can't stop the function because some > old woman chose to leave > us. How sad? > > The dates chosen for Upanayam is also very wrong. > The sukra-moudyam > (disappearance of sukra) is from May 6 for many > months and yajurvedis > shouldn't perform upanayam. But, Who listens? I > have received many > invitations during this moudyam period. These > karmas are also useless. > > Similarly, coming May 2 upanayam is useless as > grahanam is on May 4th before > the dandi-neer function. Grahanam shouldn't come > before 4 days. But, many > upanayams are scheduled for May 2. They are all > useless. > > I also read in Vaidikasri magazine > (www.subhakariam.com) that the sacred > thread is to be made by a brahmin chanting mantras > in a particular way. All > other threads worn by a brahmin is equal to the > thread worn by a cow to tie > itself (bodhayana maharshi). I still am fortunate > to have my grandfather > and some relatives in the village sending me the > sacred thread. I also > heard that think one Deekshithar in Sengalipuram > (Kumbakonam district, > Tamilnadu) does this noble cause. > > Gayathri seems to be either (a) Fashion to be sung > or chanted by everyone (I > have heard gayathri as a starting piped music at > office ball-room > receptions) or (b) a mandatory ritual for society > purpose just to got over > with. If it is not vaidika shastri, let the sastras > be da..ned as they > feel. How sad? > > Forgive me if I had got anything wrong. > > jayaraman > > > > > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:50 +0100 (BST) > sudarshan balasubramanian > <sudarshanbalasubramanian > Gayatri mantram > > > Sri Rama Jayam > > Namaskarams to all. > > I have been following the ongoing discussion > regarding the Gayatri mantram. > I read a mail by one of the members of the group > that SriVidya Upasakas can > say any mantram, be it Bala, Mruthyunjaya, and > others. I have a doubt here. > Does initiation into SriVidya Upasana require > initiation into Gayatri > mantram also? I am asking this because I've read > that initiation into any > mantram without being initiated into the Gayathri > will not be of any value. > If this is the case, then there are several women > Sri Upasakis and also > several upasakas that are not Brahmanas. Will they > have been initiated into > the Gayathri before getting the Sri upasana or won't > they be? Is there any > exemption for the women or the others to directly > get the Sri Upasana > without the Gayathri initiation? > > I request the knowledgeable people of this group to > enlighten me regarding > this. > > Regards, > > Sudarshan Iyer > > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:53:03 -0700 (PDT) > "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk > Digest of Paramacharya's Discourses on > Soundaryalahari(DPDS-77) > > Namaste. > Recall the Note about the organization of the > 'Digest', from DPDS - 26 or > the earlier ones. > V. Krishnamurthy > A Digest of Paramacharya's Discourses on > Soundaryalahari - > 77 > (Digest of pp.1252-1259 of Deivathin Kural, 6th > volume, > 4th imprn.) > > Shloka #75 says further about the breast milk of > ambaa. It generates, says > the shloka, everything superlatively noble - like > wisdom, compassion, > beauty, knowledge, and the arts. > "sArasvatam iva", meaning, everything for which > Sarasvati is the source. > They all flow like a flood from the heart - > "hRdayataH payaH pArAvAraH". It > was that milk of wisdom, Oh Mother, that you fed > to that child of the > Dramila country. And that child became a noted poet > among great composers - > "kavInAM prouDhAnAM ajani kamanIyaH kavayitA". > > > "prouDha-kavi" means a poet rich with poetic talent. > The feminine word > "prouDhA" denotes a girl who has attained puberty. > Just as the physical > tejas attains maturity, a person whose poetic talent > has attained perfection > and maturity is called a "prouDha-kavi". Ironically, > a "prouDha-kavi" is > also prone to be proud! And in the poetry that > flows from such a one there > is likely to be a mischievous air of superiority. > It may not appeal to the > heart. But the milk of wisdom, which flows like a > flood from this ocean of > 'SArasvata', generates poetic inspiration that > captivates === message truncated === SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 There seems to be some mistake here. The sarwamantraadhikara comes AFTER poorna Deeksha with shodashi; mahaashodashi and mahaapaaduka. I know at least one so called "srividya" claiment running hither and thither for mahaapaadukaa (while he is already initiating others) and the gurus he went to cautioning his shishyas about revealing anything to him after he has gone. Ganesh Prasad <bjganeshprasad wrote: Namaste, The primodial rule in any shastra of sanatana dharma is that a guru is required unless one is a jnani due to his poorva samskaras. Bhavanopanishad starts by saying "Guru sarva karana bhoota shaktihi" The glory of the guru as the person who dispels darkness in unmatched and cannot be replaced becasue of the same fact. While, certain fractions of Srividya Upasakas do believe that Srividya confers an automatic adhikara for other mantras, it is a debatable contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Gayathri Mantra is an essence of all Vedas and Upanishads and therefore rightly called MAHA MANTRA. The beauty of this mantra is that it has the ability to remove or pardon the omissions and comissions of Sri Vidya Upasana. Those who have are into Shodasi -- my guru used to say that you have to chant an equivalent number of gayathri for the equivalent shodasi japa you are doing. and by this statement itself , the importance of Gayati is SELF EVIDENT. ganapathy sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: You have succinently put what I tried to say in many posts. Jayaraman <jayaraman.v wrote: As far as I know, There is no pre-condition to have Gayathri for other mantrams. Yes, Once you have Gayathri, No Mantram is effective unless nitya-karma of gayathri japam is completed. Without completion of that, All your other japams, including Srividya, is as fruitful as a wood without fire. -- pradiipajvaalaabhirdivasakaraniiraajanavidhiH sudhaasuuteshcandropalajalalavairarghyaracanaa . svakiiyairambhobhiH salilanidhisauhityakaraNaM tvadiiyaabhirvaagbhistava janani vaacaaM stutiriyam.h www : http://www.ambaa.org/ Contact: help / Ganapathy --- Vijaya " Jai Bhavani " - - - - " Jai Sri Lalitha Maha Maha Tripura Sundari " " Sarvam Shakti Mayam Jagath " Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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