Sahasranamams and usage scope

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

Namaste. This is perhaps a naive and/or imbecile question. In the

recent past, I have come across and collected several sahasranamams

on several deities. Countless perhaps is the number of sahasranamams

on shakti in its various forms.

 

Given that the sahasranamams spell out various guna namas of the

deity (which, any way are very common, as they purport the ultimate

para (saguna/nirguna) brahman) and a large number of namas are likely

to be found common between any two sahasranamams (take any two shakti

sahasranamas), I wonder why some sahasranamams are given as general

purpose and others for special purpose.

 

The case in point point is Lalita Sahasranamam - it is given that one

gets to chant LS only after multitudes of births and should never be

chanted without initiation. If namas themselves are common, where

does it get the source of gopya - is it the construct of namas?

 

Thanks & Regards,

Muralii

[Guest guest]

Dear Murali,

 

Sai Ram. I don't claim to be an authority on this. But I respond with

prayer to Sri Maata. Sri Matre Namah.

 

Yes, there are many Sahasranama Stotras. But everyone doesn't get to

chant them. Each is invoking the specific aspect of a Deity, with of

course the caveat that all are from ONE. So, it is common to find a

number of namas common to the various stotras. However, the chandas

and the actual sequence of the namas is different. And the results are

somewhat different and the different stotras are meant for different

devotees. By their poorva janma punyam.

 

An analogy will probably clarify. English language has only 26 letters

in the alphabet. But countless words are created and are being created

and the meanings are different. Each word has a different flavor. And

the same different words in different sequence mean different things.

 

Similarly the beejaaksharas (seed letters) are used along with the

names of the Deity differently.

 

Yes, you are right. LS gives best results when taken with due

initiation. Even if one gets LS into hand, one may not be able to

continue with it. And when one does, one may get some difficulties. It

is the Divine Mother's way of protecting the child, her devotee from

harm. Tremendous powers are awakened and we may not be able to handle

them. So the need for adhikara, eligibility. Lord Hayagriva tells

Agastya that He was inspired to give the LS by the Divine Mother

herself. At that time and not earlier.

 

Guhya or Gopya means secret, hidden. Secrecy has the best interest of

the devotee at the heart. It is like nuclear weapons being locked up

so that they don't fall into wrong hands.

 

I hope you got a satisfactory reply. Learned scholars will no doubt

throw more light on this.

 

Swamy

 

 

, "kmurali_sg" <kmurali_sg> wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> Namaste. This is perhaps a naive and/or imbecile question. In the

> recent past, I have come across and collected several sahasranamams

> on several deities. Countless perhaps is the number of sahasranamams

> on shakti in its various forms.

>

> Given that the sahasranamams spell out various guna namas of the

> deity (which, any way are very common, as they purport the ultimate

> para (saguna/nirguna) brahman) and a large number of namas are likely

> to be found common between any two sahasranamams (take any two shakti

> sahasranamas), I wonder why some sahasranamams are given as general

> purpose and others for special purpose.

>

> The case in point point is Lalita Sahasranamam - it is given that one

> gets to chant LS only after multitudes of births and should never be

> chanted without initiation. If namas themselves are common, where

> does it get the source of gopya - is it the construct of namas?

>

> Thanks & Regards,

> Muralii

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri. Swamy,

 

Namaste. That was a beautiful elucidation. A couple of more queries

in this regard.

 

1. Sahasranamas like Lalita Sahasranamam contain clear instructions

that their usage is restricted to the initiated ones only. But there

are several sahasranamams which do not contain explicit prohibitions

(or not published in full by the publishers) but are not popular (for

example, sahasranamams of Parvati, Bhavani, Shakambari, etc.). How

does one know whether it can be used or just go with popular ones?

 

2. How does one get to know the purported usage and/or efficacy of

sahasranamams? If you look at the phalashruti's most of them, they

are very similar and many claim to give best results. To take an

example, there are two Gayatri Sahasranamams (Devi Bhagavatam and

Rudra Yamala) - both claim to be the most sacred ones - how does one

decide which one to use and more efficacious?

 

3. Contrary (and perhaps as a corollary) to the above, would absence

of clear-cut knowledge (written or otherwise)on usage lead to the

extinction of specific-purpose sahasranamams? To illustrate,

Hayagriva Sahasranamam and Lakshmi Nrusimha sahasranamam seem to be

very powerful but are rarely used.

 

Thanks & Regards,

Murali

 

, "S.V.Swamy" <truthseeker123x>

wrote:

> Dear Murali,

>

> Sai Ram. I don't claim to be an authority on this. But I respond

with

> prayer to Sri Maata. Sri Matre Namah.

>

> Yes, there are many Sahasranama Stotras. But everyone doesn't get to

> chant them. Each is invoking the specific aspect of a Deity, with of

> course the caveat that all are from ONE. So, it is common to find a

> number of namas common to the various stotras. However, the chandas

> and the actual sequence of the namas is different. And the results

are

> somewhat different and the different stotras are meant for

different

> devotees. By their poorva janma punyam.

[Guest guest]

shrIH

 

, "kmurali_sg" <kmurali_sg> wrote:

> Given that the sahasranamams spell out various guna namas of the

> deity (which, any way are very common, as they purport the

ultimate

> para (saguna/nirguna) brahman) and a large number of namas are

likely

> to be found common between any two sahasranamams (take any two

shakti

> sahasranamas), I wonder why some sahasranamams are given as

general

> purpose and others for special purpose.

 

Here is a translation of Bhaskararaya addressing this question:

>From Shri R.A. Shastry's translation:

 

"Here an objector might say: this particular collection consisting

of a thousand names is useless, for all words(sabdas) in one way or

another denote brahman. The answer is, amongst all other names by

which, the great men of old and the virtuous- the devotees of Devi

praised Her and attained their ends and fulfilled their desired

objects; and these names, Devi declared to be endowed with power,

and capable of conferring boons; and they (devotees) themselves

blessed them(names); such names alone are collected and arranged

into a thousand. Though the same is common to all collections of

thousands, yet this one is superior to the rest and has been

accepted by many great men, because by it is quickly obtained the

reward which cannot be gained by the use of other collections of

thousand names, and for many other reasons."

 

Translation for commentary on 30th shloka of Uttara pithika.

 

"30. You know the secret of my Chakra, and you are wholly devoted to

my names; so I command you to compose hymns to me.

The secret of my chakra: There are many prayers like the present

one, composed by Vasini and others; then, why this one? Because in

the other hymns the secret of the Chakra is not revealed. Chakra is

the space form the centre(bindu) to the outer lines(Bhupura)....

........Wholly devoted: (The commentator here questions:)

As there are already many upanishads, viz., Aruna,Guhyaka,Tripura,

and others which treat of the Srichakra, what is the use of

composing a new hymn? The answer is, that the names given in this

Sahasranama not only contain the ordinary meaning of each name, but

they are arranged in such a manner as to include many other

meanings, such as those of Chakra, Mantra etc. For this reason devi

entrusted this composition to vasini and others."

 

> The case in point point is Lalita Sahasranamam - it is given that

one

> gets to chant LS only after multitudes of births and should never

be

> chanted without initiation. If namas themselves are common, where

> does it get the source of gopya - is it the construct of namas?

 

Source of Gopya:

 

Translation for 32nd shloka of Uttara Pithika:

Hayagriva Bhagavan said:

"32. Thus ordered by the words of the divine mother,Lalita, the

goddesses composed this excellent prayer of the secret names of Devi.

Secret: Because these thousand names contain the secret of Chakra,

and of Mantra."

 

Hence these namas are Gopya.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Murali,

 

Sai Ram. Sri Matre Namah. Thanks for the kind words. It is all Divine

Mother's Grace. Nothing moves without Her Grace.

 

I am trying to answer the queries that the Divine Mother is playfully

asking this child through you. Ma, forgive this child for any mistakes.

 

1. Most of Sahasranamas are taken from Puranas. So, when in doubt it

is always better to go to their source and check them out. If the

Sahasranama is composed by other devotees (like you and me), it should

be checked out for the introduction, phala shruti etc. If you are

drawn to take up that particular Sahasranama, pl. do it after

heartfelt prayer to Sri Maata, who is the Orginator of all. See how

you feel after a few days (normally 40). If you should not continue,

you will get definite signals.

 

2. Whichever you are drawn to take up. If you are unable to decide

between two equally good and potent versions, ask a small child to

pick up a chit from two placed at Mother's Lotus Feet.

 

3. Each temple, each God/Goddess has some life span. God is Immortal

but we are here talking of the specific idol or temple. Similarly the

stotras etc. Just as our human body has a life span but our soul is

immortal and goes through several cycles of birth and death till

released from the cycle by the Divine Mother by Her grace.

 

In the end, I submit that all names of God are powerful. Valmiki got

the benefit from reversed Rama, in Devi Bhagavatham there is the story

of a child who could utter only Klee (from Kleeba) and the Divine

Mother accepted that as a worship of Her. Ajamila got the benefit from

uttering part of Narayana (I hope I remembered correctly). In Guru

Charitra, I read some very inspiring stories about how Siva showers

His grace on the worst sinners for some very simple acts of devotion.

It is like a huge mountain of cotton (our sins) burnt down by a tiny

spark (our poorva janma punyam manifesting as God's grace).

 

It is the intent that counts. And She knows what is good for us even

without our asking. In fact, She makes us take up any activity so that

our destiny is fulfilled. I was motivated by Her to take up LS for

some time and for Her own reasons, give it up too. Similarly Vishnu

Sahasranama too. Now I pray to Sai (who is one with Siva and all other

Gods) and simply use Sai Ram.

 

May the Mother guide all of us on the path.

 

With prostrations at Her Feet,

 

Her Child,

 

Swamy

 

 

, "kmurali_sg" <kmurali_sg> wrote:

> Dear Sri. Swamy,

>

> Namaste. That was a beautiful elucidation. A couple of more queries

> in this regard.

>

> 1. Sahasranamas like Lalita Sahasranamam contain clear instructions

> that their usage is restricted to the initiated ones only. But there

> are several sahasranamams which do not contain explicit prohibitions

> (or not published in full by the publishers) but are not popular (for

> example, sahasranamams of Parvati, Bhavani, Shakambari, etc.). How

> does one know whether it can be used or just go with popular ones?

>

> 2. How does one get to know the purported usage and/or efficacy of

> sahasranamams? If you look at the phalashruti's most of them, they

> are very similar and many claim to give best results. To take an

> example, there are two Gayatri Sahasranamams (Devi Bhagavatam and

> Rudra Yamala) - both claim to be the most sacred ones - how does one

> decide which one to use and more efficacious?

>

> 3. Contrary (and perhaps as a corollary) to the above, would absence

> of clear-cut knowledge (written or otherwise)on usage lead to the

> extinction of specific-purpose sahasranamams? To illustrate,

> Hayagriva Sahasranamam and Lakshmi Nrusimha sahasranamam seem to be

> very powerful but are rarely used.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

> Murali

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri. Swamy,

 

Namaste. I am indebted for your beautiful insights. Thanks indeed. But I

must confess that, while the logic and underlying philosophy are

comprehensible, it is also confusing at the same time! I request your kind

understanding that my queries are basically to get deeper understanding and

clear my ignorance and not to engage in meaningless debates.

 

The exchanges so far have reconfirmed some of the basic assumptions -

although the God is one, HE/SHE is available to bhaktas in a variety of

archavatarams, each evoking and confering specific gunas and energies.

Perhaps the same can be extended to stutis (such as Sahasranamam) on these

various forms - that it is also palpable that each of these stutis are

likely to invoke/confer specific gunas/energies. Therefore care must be

taken on choosing the right ones with right usage prescriptions without

undesirable side effects. Unfortunately, that is where the confusion

arises:

 

(a) It may be misleading to comprehend the purpose/nature of usage of a

sahasranama/stuti basing on the phalashruti alone - as many of them are very

general and to a large extent identical. So how does one choose a specific

stuti that is appropriate for the intent (good intent)?

 

(b) Are we (I mean our generation) lucky enough to inherit the full

knowledge on the usage of various forms/stutis for positive spiritual

advancement? Or have we lost many of our invaluable treasures?

 

© Even if we have inherited in full, have we made our own modifications

(authorized or otherwise) during the passage of time? For © and (d), I

can cite a few of my observations.

 

(i) It has been unequivocally declared in Vedas/Puranas that Gayatri worship

is supreme. It is also said that worshipping Gayatri is equivalent to

worshipping all Deities and on the contrary it is futile to worship any

Deity without worshipping Gayatri. To go further, it is given that chanting

Gayatri Sahasranamam is equivalent to chanting 7-crores of stutis (sapta

koTi mahAmantra pArAyaNa phalapradam) and one is relieved of all sins if one

recites Gayatri Hrudayam. But I am quite puzzled that Gayatri worship is not

as prevalent as other forms.

 

(ii) We also see some renewed interest on worship of some of the forms which

were considered very secret before - e.g. Indrakshi, Pratyangira, Varahi,

Ucchistha Ganapati, Nila Saraswati etc.

 

(iii) Lalitha Sahasranamam - though Lord Hayagriva spells out strict

qualifications for chanting it, it is very freely used. In the same token,

some of supposedly very potent Sahasranamams/stutis have become rarity -

e.g. Bhavani, Venkatesha, Nrusimha, etc.

 

(d) I agree that intent matters a lot but perhaps it does not mean that the

procedures/prescriptions can be compromised - otherwise we can't explain the

undesirable side effects of chanting a stuti although with good intent.

 

Kali age, by design, seems to be imperfect and spirituality is no exception.

To quote Vishnu Puranam on Kali age - devatAshca kalau sarvAH sarvaH

sarvasya cAshramaH! So, blessed we will be if we inherit the full knowledge

and practice them!

 

But as a parting shot - I am always intrigued and challenged by Lord's order

'sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmekam sharaNam vraja' in Bhagavad Gita and its

significance to us in Kali age!

 

Sorry for a very long mail and my sincere apologies if any of my

observations is/are absurd and/or imbecile. Thank you once again for

enlightening.

 

With regards,

Murali

 

 

, "S.V.Swamy" <truthseeker123x> wrote:

> Dear Sri Murali,

>

> Sai Ram. Sri Matre Namah. Thanks for the kind words. It is all Divine

> Mother's Grace. Nothing moves without Her Grace.

>

> I am trying to answer the queries that the Divine Mother is playfully

> asking this child through you. Ma, forgive this child for any mistakes.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Murali,

 

Sai Ram. Sri Matre Namah. Prostrations at the Divine Lotus Feet of

Mother. by the way, today is Father's day in USA.

 

Tvameva Mata, Pita Tvameva, Tvameva Bandhuh Sakha Tvameva,

Tvameva Vidya Dravinam Tvameva, Tvameva Sarvam Mama Deva Deva!

 

Guru Brahma, Gurur Vishnuh Gurudevo Maheswarah,

Guru Sakshat ParaBrahma, Tasmait Sri Gurave Namah!

 

I may kindly be excused for any mistakes in transliteration. The

Divine Mother and Her Consort may bless us, their children with

wisdom.

 

I will try to answer your queries to the best of my ability and offer

the whole thing at Mother's Feet.

 

1) The same appeal addressed to different authorities may fetch

different results. And a hierarchy is to be followed. We won't send a

petition to the President of India directly esp. if we are employees

of Government. We go through the proper channel. Similarly LS may be

the ultimate. But other Shaktis are also Amsas of Goddess Lalitha and

so will respond to the Stotrams addressed to them.

 

Let me give one more analogy. Suppose a child is hungry. To whom will

the child address its cries? to its own mother of course. Only if

mother is not available, other relatives like aunts, grandmother etc.

will help. Similarly each of us are related to some Rishi, God or

Goddess. So, appealing to them will fetch best results.

 

Sarva Deva Namaskaram Kesava Pratigachhati. All namaskarams reach

Kesava. Similarly Bhagawan Sri Krishna tells Arjuna in Gita: People

worship all sorts of demi-gods but since I pervade all of them, I am

receiving their worship indirectly through the demi-gods, pithru

devatas etc.

 

So, once you are clear about the intent and find a Sahasranama

Stotram that has the Phala Shruti that appeals to you, go ahead.

 

2) We may or not have the correct knowledge of using the different

stotras, mantras etc. today. Earlier, the student was sitting at the

feet of the Guru and was receiving the Mantra, its Chandas, Devata,

Shakti, the Nyasa etc., directly. The Guru also gave only that Mantra

for which he had the adhikara. That is the Guru got the Mantra Siddhi

and then only felt competent to teach. He took full responsibility

for the effects of the Mantra on the receiver.

 

If you have access to such a guru you are indeed fortunate. If you

don't have, I suggest that you keep away from all Shakteya Mantras

and stick to Satvik Mantras like Rama Krishna, Vishnu Sahasranama

etc.

 

3)Communication is always fraught with corruption. Yuga dharma is

also against the pure transmission of the occult knowledge. So, there

is no guarantee that the knowledge of books, cassettes, CDs etc., is

authentic.

 

4) It is true that Gayatri worship is praised. And it is also true

that other Mantras won't give good results unless Gayatri is strictly

followed. But does it mean that those who are unfit for Gayatri are

doomed? that their japa is waste? I submit no. No action is ever

wasted. If not in this birth, in the next birth they do get the

opportunity to worship Gayatri and progress on the path. Gayatri is

not so much to confer material benefits, but spiritual knowledge. By

singing which we cross this ocean of samsara - that is Gayatri.

 

And what is assured is the destruction of patakas, sins. So ignorance

is destroyed. And true knowledge of one's real self is obtained.

 

7 crores of Gayatri is a big job. And now a days the Upanayana

Samskaram is looked at as a prerequisite nuisance before the

marriage. So where is the respect and where is the Sraddha for

Gayatri Japa?

 

5) Whether it is a God or a politician, they have their cycles of

popularity. Suppose you got good results from Indrakshi, you will

spread the word and others will follow suit. Similarly some go out of

fashion.

 

Those which could be sung have become popular. Like Vishnu

Sahasranama, LS, Venkatesa Suprabhatam etc. Thanks to MS.

 

6) our intent may be good but if we put our fingers in fire, they

will burn. Improperly conducted stotras (Chandas, beejaksharas etc.,)

do give negative results since the Devata is kindly dissuading the

sadhaka from further harm.

 

7) The aim of any ego is dissolution and merger with the Universal

Self. Sarva Dharman Parityajya.. means to stop identifying with the

ego the manifest Gods etc., and merge the consciousness into the

Unmanifest Para Brahman (Nirguna Para Brahman). Dharma means guna in

this context if my limited knowledge is right.

 

Bhagawan Sri Krishna suggests total surrender to Him as the best

yoga, unification. Saranagati means voluntarily giving up all rights

and responsibilities to the God. After that what is left for you to

bother?

 

All stotras arise from dwaita bhava. Sri Adi Shankara advocated

Bhakti to purify the Sadhaka's mind so that Advaita can be absorbed.

Other great Acharyas modified Advaita to suit different classes of

people who were not really qualified for non-dualism.

 

Stotras are invoked for getting benefits. For whom? for the

individual ego. When is moksha from this circle of action, desire for

results? when the ego merges with the Brahman.

 

Sai Ram. I too apologise to you and to the group for the long reply.

I would reqest Murali to write off the list if needed. We have no

right to trouble other devotees.

 

Sata koti namaskarams at the Mother's feet.

 

Swamy

 

, "K. Muralidharan" <kmurali_sg>

wrote:

> Dear Sri. Swamy,

>

> Namaste. I am indebted for your beautiful insights. Thanks indeed.

But I

> must confess that, while the logic and underlying philosophy are

> comprehensible, it is also confusing at the same time! I request

your kind

> understanding that my queries are basically to get deeper

understanding and

> clear my ignorance and not to engage in meaningless debates.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Jel,

 

Sai Ram. Sri Matre Namah. It is always better to check with one's Guru

before taking up any Mantra. LS is a Mahamantra, a great Mantra or a

garland of mantras. It contains Beejaksharas, which are quite potent

to evoke the various Shaktis. The intent is very important in taking

up any karma or action. The same action yields different results

depending upon the intention. When it is undertaken with absolutely

self-less motives, for universal welfare, the mistakes are forgiven

and the benefits accrue to all including the doer of the action. But

when some personal benefit is asked, it becomes important to keep out

negative entities who could manifest themselves and give some adverse

results. So, when the ego is involved, purity of action is important.

 

While a human mother also forgives the lisping of a small child who is

growing and learning to speak, she won't condone the same behavior in

an adult. So, while learning mistakes will be condoned. But it is also

true that fire burns whether we put our hand in it knowingly or

otherwise. So, if a child is near a fire, it needs to be supervised

and protected from harm by a grown up, responsible adult. Guru plays a

similar role.

 

I am not initiated into Sri Vidya myself and so can't answer your

question better. I did take up LS and also gave up after some time,

when a more knowledgeable person told me not to carry on. I took that

as the Divine Mother's wish. And all the time, I felt protected by my

Family Deity Lord Venkateswara (after whom I am named) and my Guru

Sainath of Shirdi.

 

Thanks for the Satsang. If you need any more help, pl. write to me off

the list.

 

Swamy

 

, Mooooorish@a... wrote:

> Namaskarams,

>

> I have a question about chanting the Sahasranamas. If a person has

received

> diksha into for instance Sri Vidya. Can the person chant the Lalita

> Sahasramana?

> Or does the person need approval or diksha from the guru to chant the

> Sahasranama?

> If the sadhak does not know how to pronounce the mantras well.

> And the sadhak is practicing on how to pronounce the mantras within the

> Sahasranama Will that bring about a negative benefit?

>

> Regards,

> jel

>

>

>