prapatti

[Guest guest]

I did not mean to underestimate the need for an Acharya. I am sorry

if I conveyed that impression. The only point I was making was that

in Srivaishnavism the word Prapatti is used in the same context as

the primary doctrine of other Vaishnava Sampradayas regarding certain

incidents mentioned in the epics e.g, in the Gaudiya Vaishnava

tradition they have called some incidents quoted as Prapatti by Shri

Vedanta Deshikar as "taking the shelter of the holy name."

 

I should not have brought up the subject of Svanishta Prapatti as it

was totally out of context.

 

Jaganath.

[Guest guest]

jagannathan writes:

 

THE CONCEPT OF PRAPATTI AS

USED IN THE POSTING OF SHRI DILEEPAN IS MUCH WIDER. EVEN

SHANKARACHARYA HAS FINALLY SAID: "OH LORD, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THAT

YOU AND I ARE ONE (THAT IS I AM NOT THIS MATERIAL BODY BUT THAT THE

JIVATMA IS MADE UP OF THE SAME SUBSTANCE THAT GOD IS MADE UP OF OR

SPIRIT) LET ME NOT FORGET THAT I BELONG TO YOU AND THAT YOU DO NOT

BELONG TO ME, JUST AS THE WAVES BELONG TO THE OCEAN AND THE OCEAN

DOES NOT BELONG TO THE WAVES." ANYONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS STATEMENT

OF ADI SHANKARACHARYA AND ACTS IN THAT WAY TOWARDS SRIMAN NARAYANA

HAS ALSO DONE PRAPATTI. PRAPATTI DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DONE BY AN

ACHARYA BUT CAN ALSO BE DONE BY THE INDIVIDUAL HIM/HER SELF.

 

JAGANATH.

 

**********************************************************

 

this does not seem to be the visistadvaitic view of prapatti. for both

tenkalai and vadakalai sects, acharyabhimana is absolutely necessary.

if acharya is not included in the prapatti then that format is known as

"svanishta". for svanishta format of prapatti to work, one needs

sambandha jnana - ie. the true realization of our relation to srimannarayana

and the 5 angas of prapatti should be very rigorously adhered to. if the

5 angas are not adhered to such "svanishta" prapatti may not work.

in general the need for an acharya should not be de-emphasized in reference to

vishistadvaitic concept of prapatti.

to date in our sampradaya, only people who have done svanishta are :

Sri Ramanuja, Sri Alavandar, Sri vedanta desika ( I will confirm this later)

 

note there is the concept of surrender in almost all religions including

christianity, islam, etc. I would not mix them with the visistadvaitic concept

since, they do differ in one or more aspects.

 

for this I would suggest an aspirant to get information from an acharya and

let that person go through "kalakshepam" of works like : rahasya traya sara,

or srivachana bhusana etc.

 

Even Shankaracharya's prapatti is not exactly same as the ones described in

visistadvaitic works. for example in bhaja govindam : the issue of

"bramha padam tvam pravisha viditvaa" - ie. "you attain the state of bramhan

after knowing (bramhan)" - does not concur with the visistadvaitic conception.

 

this one may be a close parallel to visistadvaitic view but not identical.

I feel that prapatti is a secret and powerful doctrine. one should never be

confident of what it is even after repeated contemplation. IT is very necessary

for an aspirant to directly study under an acharya : like how gita describes:

 

"pari prashnena sevaya" - by repeated questioning and service to acharyas.

 

krishna

 

PLEASE READ THE chapter on PRAPATTI in VAISHNAVISM or SMS CHARI. that gives

a concise overview of what it is with some clarity.

 

 

krishna

[Guest guest]

Prapatti is an atonement (prAyaScittam) for all previous

sins. As Sri Desika explains in Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram,

there are two broad types of prapatti for people like us --

ukti-nishTha and acharya-nishTha.

 

In ukti-nishTha, under the guidance of the acharya, the

sishya repeats the words of SaraNAgati (dvaya mantram, etc.)

in the presence of the Lord, and places the burden of

liberation on the Lord. Desika writes that just as a great

king protects even a little child who has been taught

to beg for protection by his elders, the Lord will protect

the sishya, even if the sishya lacks full knowledge of

the meaning of his words.

 

In acharya-nishTha, the sishya is included in the SaraNAgati

of the acharya, just as the rakshasas who fled Lanka with

Vibhishana were included in Vibhishana's SaraNAgati. The

acharya petitions the Lord on behalf of the ignorant sishya.

 

In both, the burden of accomplishing liberation is placed at

the Lord's feet; the latter is through the connection with

the acharya exclusively.

 

According to my understanding, neither mode of prapatti

includes a vicarious atonement, except in the sense that

the acharya petitions the Lord to protect the sishya

through connection with him. Since this petitioning

combined with AtmA-samarpaNam is prAyaScittam for the

sishya's prior sins, the acharya atones for the sins

of the jIva, but he does not "suffer" in the way Jesus

is believed by Christians to have suffered on the cross

for the sake of humanity.

 

In ukti-nishTha I do not believe there is even this

degree of "atonement" by the acharya, since the sishya

himself does the AtmA-samarpaNam.

 

rAmAnuja dAsan

Mani

[Guest guest]

Sri:

 

Dear Sri Mani,

 

There can not be a better description / explanation. Great one! Your post

citing VibhIshaNa's SaraNAgathy along with four other rAkashasaas reminded

me of Sri Krishna premi's upanyasam. This is how he narrated.

 

Once during an upanyasam by Sri Ramanuja on VibhIshaNa saraNAgathy, the

sishyas were deeply overwhelmed not only due to the Parama kaaruNikO

Bhagawaan Sri Rama's daya and His "sakrudEva prapannaathma... abhayam

"sarva" bhoothEbhyO.....vratham mama". (It is my pledge that I will save any

soul that surrenders to Me.) but more due to Yathirajar's anubhavam filled

narration. When Ramanuja was describing about the doubts and suspicions that

lingered and were thrown open whether it was appropriate and safe to accept

VibhishaNan.

 

PiLLai uRa~ngaavilli daasar, (who had the Bhagyam of being blessed by

Yathirajar to enjoy the Most Beautiful Lotus large, charming, bright eyes of

Sri Ranganathar at Srirangam) got up. It is generally (never) right to get

up in between and Villi daasar was a Parama Bhagawathar who knew that

etiquette. But still, he got up. Ramanuja asked him "DaasarE! What

happened?". Villi daasar said "AchArya saarvabhoumarE! VibhIshaNan, left

everything- his family, his wife, his (probable ) chance of becoming the

king of the great lankA kingdom, his wealth, his possessions. etc.. etc..

and surrendered unconditionally with blind, unflinching faith and

mahAviswaasam to Lord Rama. What a great saranAgathy! And still...... he is

being questioned and suspected by these Sugreevan, and others and Rama is

listening to them.... On the other hand, I, the lowly self- who has not left

anything, who is still with all material possessions, who is still attached

to the family... What is my fate? There can be no redemption for me! When

VibhIshaNan himself was stopped, where is my chance?..... " and his voice

started choking with eyes filled with tears.

 

Our most merciful, most compassionate YathirAjar, smiled... and said "Villi

daasarE!..... "adhu Ramar gOshti.... idhu Ramanujan Goshti.... Ramar

Goshtila dhaan sandhEham.... samsayam.. ellaam... inga kidaiyaadhu......"

meaning: That is Rama's group... This one is Ramanujar group... There can be

doubts/ suspicions there...Not here...." and added further... "Why not here?

because... We know that Sadagopar... NammAzhwAr was granted mOksham (as can

be seen explicitly in his Thiruvaaymozhi 10.10), because of his AchArya

sambhandham and SaraNAgathy to Divya Dampathi.. When NammAzhwAr was granted,

it is needless to say... Nathamuni was granted because of his AchArya

Sambhandham with NammAzhwAr... and subsequently... PuNdareekaakshar

(UyyakkoNdaar), Sri Ramamisrar (MaNakkal Nambhi), Yamunacharyar

(ALavandhaar), MahaapoorNar (Periya Nambhi). NammAzhwArkku mOksham uNdu

enRaal namakkum uNdu daasarE.. (If NammAzhwAr gets mOksham, you and I also

will get daasarE! Not to worry... VibhIshaNan was not blessed with such

GREATEST ACHARYA PARAMPARAI. WE ARE!

 

What a great explanation! Thus, LET US NOT WORRY.

 

Regards

 

Narayana Narayana

 

Narayana dAsan Madhavakkannan

 

 

>

> Mani Varadarajan [sMTP:mani]

> Wednesday, March 17, 1999 4:03 AM

> bhakti

> Re: prapatti

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Madhavakkannan,

 

The episode of Sri Pillai Urangaavilli Daasar is mentioned

in vaarttaamaalai. Sri M. Srinivasan has written about it:

 

http://www.best.com/~mani/sv/bhakti/archives/jan97/0175.html

 

Vibhishana and Nammalvar took refuge with the Lord out

of their own sense of urgency and bhakti. They were able

to do this without an acharya, and there is nothing wrong

for people as elevated as them in doing this. This type

is what Sri Desika calls 'sva-nishTa'. Interestingly, this

category is not mentioned in Srimad Rahasya Traya Saaram.

 

rAmAnuja dAsan

Mani

[Guest guest]

Sri Vishnu wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 Sri Venktesh K. Elayavalli wrote:

> >

> > Second, most acharyas require all Sri Vaishnavas to go through various

> > stages of life, such as brahmachari, marriage and procreate, provide

> > for the children's education, etc before taking up Prapatti. For

>

> Is it for performing prapatti or taking sannyAsam?

>

> Vishnu

 

Venkatesh must have miswrote. In our sampradAya,

one should go through the various stages of life

before taking sannyAsa. Exception is made for

those who are particularly detached from the world.

Sri Rangapriya Swami and the vartamAna (present)

Parakala Matha Swami were brahmacharis when

they took the sannyAsa ashrama.

 

Prapatti, on the other hand, has no restriction as

to time, place, or condition of the individual.

It is only conditioned on the person to whom the

surrender is done, i.e., one should surrender only

to God. Any thing, in any state, can take refuge

with the Lord at any time, be it an animal, child,

woman, or man.

 

Mani