gita and varnasharma dharma

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this is an answer to sreekrishna's objections of the meanings of

chaturvarnyam verse : guna and karma based classification.

 

The meanings I have assigned to guna and karma : were not meant to be

an explanation of that verse in particular. I represented a traditional view.

 

Let me tell you that traditional view is not very far off from the Gita view

also. the support is as follows:

 

1. chaturvarnyam verse clearly supports a scientific view rather than a

birth or parentage based view of classification of castes. this is true.

however -

 

2. in the 18th chapter, "bramhana kshatria vishaam shudranaam cha parantapa

karmaani pravibhaktani svabhava prabhavair gunaihi".

 

in this it is hinted that, the activities or preferable vocation of the

brahmins, kshatrias and so are classified based on the orientation of

their natures. In this it seems that Lord Krishna has put the cart in front

of the horse. what I mean is that, it is fair, to say that that those who

do satvic works are bramhanas and those who do military related work as

kshatrias etc. here in this verse the reverse or vice versa is indicated which

conforms more with a traditional view. IN fact other samhitas such as

bramha samhita etc. indicate a traditional view as more appropriate.

 

2A : NOTe that the verse - chaturvarnyam is not at all meant in the original

context to refer to caste system at all. that is probably an unintended

side effect. the real purpose of that sloka in that context is to explain

birth based variety as not God's discrimination but the effect of the previous

karmas and nature of the jeevas which bring forth variety. ie. that is why

Lord Krishna states that I am a doer and not a doer of this creation :

meaning the variety was created by the karmas of individuals and the

samashti sristi : ie. the creation of mind, matter, etc. is my creation.

 

3. further : the verse - madbhaava maanasaa jaataha teshaam loka imaha

prajaaha : has brought the position of manus to be representative of

Lord Krishna's views.

 

4. in manu dharma shastras : the traditional view is stated all over again

and again.

 

with these in mind the traditional view is upheld.

 

 

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE WHICH I QUOTED TAKES THE STING OUT OF THE APPARENTLY

NEPOTISTIC TRADITIONAL VIEW IS:

 

SO A BHAKTA OF THE LORD WHO MAY BE BORN IN ANY COMMUNITY IS THE GREATEST AND

SHOULD BE TREATED AND RESPECTED AS EQUIVALENT TO A SAGE OR RISHI.

 

NOTE:

 

The way a particular issue is practised in real life makes it much more

disgusting than what it really is. I do agree that the caste system in practice

is deplorable.

 

krishna

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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>From Tatachar Tue Oct 31 00:32:18 1995

Tatachar

Tue, 31 Oct 1995 00:27:55 -0500

prapatti

RE:Gita and Varnashrama

 

Mr. Krishna Prasad said:

>>>the essence of "chaturvarnyam maya srishtam"

>>- is that as per the words, it is clearly indicated

>> that "beings belonging to 4 castes were created

>>>by me according to gunas and karma"

>>>- ie. varnas are both birth based and nature based.

>>>This is the clear traditional view of all the acharyas -

>>>shankaracharya, Sri Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya. <<<<

 

I don't see how one can equate Guna and Karma

to mean Birth and Nature.

Actually it means Nature and work.

For example the guna of gold is non reactivity

(stability), malleability and ductility.

These gunas make it suitable for being used

to make jewellery and that is how gold

works (it's Karma is jewelery). These Gunas of

gold were determined at it's birth(formation)

irrespective of what individual parent elements

that were involved in it's formation.

 

Likewise Guna of coal is ability to

produce heat (calorific value/BTU) and Karma is

it's use in runnning a steam engine. The

other forms of carbon (diamond, graphite,

fulleranes) have different gunas and serve

different karmas.

In other words Guna predisposes one

to particular type of Karma(s).

 

The varna of an individual is

determined AT birth(conception) and not

BY birth. Unless the parents are

homozugous, it is impossible to

recreate a progeny of identical

varnya. However, by carefully controlling the

contributing parents, it is possible to

increase the probability of

reproducing the Varna of the parents

in the child. This woud be similar to

controlled breeding done with animals

(pets, thoroughbred horses, homozygous

mouse etc) after numerous

inbreedings (back crossings). In a human

situation, this is nearly impossible.

 

Clearly, there is no indication in this verse

(Chaturvarnyam maya srishtam.........)

of anything to do with the Varna being

determined by birth (ie., by parents).

Gita matches with the scientific view

but not our Purvacharyas interpretation

of this verse as stated by Mr. Krishna Prasad.

K. Sreekrishna.

 

 

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