gita and varnashrama dharma

[Guest guest]

I think a number of postings related to this and apasudradhikarana of bramha

sutras were posted a year or two back. please refer to those for some more

details.

 

the essence of "chaturvarnyam maya srishtam" - is that as per the words,

it is clearly indicated that "beings belonging to 4 castes were created by

me according to gunas and karma" - ie. varnas are both birth based and nature

based. this is the clear traditional view of all the acharyas - shankaracharya,

Sri Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya.

 

NOTE: varnyam in the verse above forces a 2-fold birth and caste based

differentiation. varnyam means already belonging to. if it were varnam then

it would mean 4 castes were created. then it would be clearly classification

based on nature and karma. this varnyam word makes the real difference!

 

what does this mean ?

 

one's gunas are not easily detectable. so to start with people are

differentiated by birth so as to start them in the types of works they

should be doing. ie. bramhin families suggest the kids to study vedas etc.

after thread ceremony etc. this is very natural and in almost all countries

it is very natural for a kid to follow the example of parents initially

atleast in terms of vocation.

 

women also have sthree dharmas based on castes.

 

but we do see in real life birth based brahmins with natures very much

opposite to - calmness, mind control, austerity, study of vedas,

absence of pride, abstinence from business, military and other non bramhanic

pursuits.

 

how should these birth based brahmins with non-bramhanic nature looked upon?

 

srimad bhagawatam has an answer : it states that these cannot be looked upon

as real brahmins. they clearly are not brahmins!! ie. they need not be honored.

but still by birth they

have a right to get thread ceremony etc. in practice.

 

 

coming to non-brahmins ie. vaishyas, sudras, others by birth - who may have

very true brahmanic qualities. how should they be considered?

they should be considered equivalent to brahmins. A brahmin can even go learn

under them sastras. examples are vidura's (a sudra - though son of

vyasa the great sage!!)

sermon to dharma raja. ( a kshatria).

 

SO A BHAKTA OF THE LORD WHO MAY BE BORN IN ANY COMMUNITY IS THE GREATEST AND

SHOULD BE TREATED AND RESPECTED AS EQUIVALENT TO A SAGE OR RISHI.

 

but they do not have the duty to get thread ceremony and are not bound to do

nitya karmas - like sandhya vandana etc. they will incur no sin for not

doing nitya karmas. but they can study the meaning of vedas!! and vedanta!!

but cannot learn to recite vedas or do agni karya!

 

SO in essence NATURE BASED classification is SUPERIOR and MORE VALID than

birth based discrimination. this is the one to be practised for treatment

and undergoing sastraic study.

 

Please note the meaning of "DVIJA" - ie. twice born. what does that mean?

ie. one is the bodily birth. the second is the birth of realization of that

person. bodily birth does not mean anything. it only is a reservation for an

expensive thread ceremony and (tonnes of sin that could accrue if one

does not do sandhya vandana, bramha yajna and agni karya

properly after having thread

ceremony). some people erroneously state that after thread ceremony,

a person has automatically got the second birth..... this is wrong.

the second birth the the true spiritual realization. for example -

most rishis who had spiritual realization were not born as brahmins -

they are honored all over in our scriptures : for example - vyasa

born to fisherwoman, vasishta - born to urvasi, agasthya born to a

kumbha (pot), jabali - born to jabala (hunter woman). and so on.

 

 

WHY SHOULD LORD KRISHNA even bring up this partly birth based caste system?

 

Let me ask you a question - why is that one kid born in the midst of warring

factions in some place in middle east, and why one is born to a rich

business magnate , and why one is born in near a monastery in tibet

or an ashram in himalayas? Note that each kid has a different genetic

trait and and environment at age zero. this is according to our

scriptures - based on karma- since nothing else can it be ascribed to.

today a pure brahmin and vaishnava are almost extinct entities. so

the family one is born may be a 5% brahmanic or 10% brahmanic. even then

it is better than being born in IDI AMIN's family! so it is just relative

at preset.

 

THE POINT is that genetic and environmental blessing which causes birth is

god given and it is at birth. there is inequality in this. nothing can be

done about this.

 

 

KRISHNA

[Guest guest]

This is in response to Mr. Krishna

Kalale's discussion finding support for

traditional interpretation based on his

interpretation of the following

verse in the Gita(ch.18:41).

Personally to me this verse and the

following three verses of Gita (ch.18:42-44)

are nothing but a smooth and logical

continuation of the earlier verses

chaturvarnyam...Guna Karma Vibhagashah (Ch.4:13)

and Swadharme nidhanam Shreyah (Ch.3:35)

for both of which, our Purvacharyas have a

different interpretation than some of us.

 

"bramhana kshatria vishaam

shudranaam cha parantapa

karmaani pravibhaktani

svabhava prabhavair gunaihi".(Ch.18:41)

 

To me this verse is Lord Krishna's Bhashyam for :

Chaturvarnyam .. guna karma vibhagashah.

Let me explain my position, whi I think so:

 

"svabhava prabhavair gunaihi".

 

SWABHAVAH

means the basic nature

(genes or the genotype),

PRABHAVAIHI,

gives raise to or expresses or governs or determines

GUNAIHI,

the qualities (phenotype)

 

This is the basic natural law. To my knowledge, Hinduism (Gita/Purushasuktam,

etc.) is the only religion to reveal this scientific fact.

karmaani pravibhaktani

KARMANI,

works or duties (are)

PRAVIBHAKTANI,

divided or distributed (accordingly)

 

The KARMAS (works) are distributed among

Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishyas, and Shudras

to suit their GUNAS (qualities) that arose out of

their own SWABHAVA (basic nature)

 

In the three verses that follow this, Krishna

actually specifies the works(KARMAS) that

are prescribed.

 

This is a logical synthesis. Swabhava gives us

Gunas, that by itself is not work, rather it is only a

potential. We have to develop this potential

through the karmas that fits our (Brahmin, Sudra,

Kshatriya or Vaishya, whatever the case may be)

potential. Our counseller, Lord Krishna is giving work

guide lines for us in Ch.18:42-44.

 

 

Mr. Krishna Kalale also said:

>>SO A BHAKTA OF THE LORD WHO MAY BE BORN

>>IN ANY COMMUNITY IS THE GREATEST AND

>>SHOULD BE TREATED AND RESPECTED AS

>>EQUIVALENT TO A SAGE OR RISHI.

 

This is very true. Satvikas can be in any caste!

That is what our Purvacharyas have taught us.

Furthermore, Our Gitacharya Krishna says

a learned Brahmin, a cow. an elephant, a dog,

and a dog eater is seen as same by

a Pundit (Punditah samadarshinah) (Ch.5:18)

 

K. Sreekrishna