Krish"s question on the 3 typesof Chetanas

[Guest guest]

Krish: Here is an attempt at answer to your

request for defenitions of the three types of Jivans.

I have taken the liberty to expand on these themes

from sourc eliterature.

 

The source material for this posting comes from

Professor A.Srinivasa Raghavan"s outstanding

Monograph on Visishtaadvaitam released by

T&T Devasthaanam in 1985. At many places, I will be

quoting him verbatim:

 

 

According to Vishishtadvaita Doctrines, the Jivans,

which are infinite in number are quite different from

one another , based on their Karmic history.The three types

of Jivans are : Baddha, Mukta and Nitya Jivans.

 

BADDHA JIVAN OR SOULS IN BONDAGE: they are associated with

bodies as a result of unexpended Karmas from previous births

The birth of the Jivans in the world is due to Avidya or Nescience in them.

Avidya results from Karma. The repeated performance of Karma by

the Jivans leaves Vasana or the latent impressions in their mind,which

in turn generates Ruci or propensity to do or engage in an act.This

in turn leads to PrakrtiSambhanda or association with the Prakrti or Body.

This embodiment causes further Avidya and consequent Karma.

Thus , all of the above--Avidya, Karma , embodiment -- work in a cycle.

Each one is influenced by the one that precedes it and is the cause

of the other that follows.This has been going on from time immemorial.

The law of Karma works with relentless vigour and no one can escape

its consequences.

 

MUKTA JIVAN OR FREED SOUL: A Baddha Jiva , who by a study of the

sastras at the feet of a qualified Acharya acquires the correct knowledge

about the nature of the Body, Jivan, Achetana and Iswaran or Paramatman.

He or She then experiences a desire for Moksha( Freedom from the

cycles of Births and Deaths) and becomes a Mumukshu. When at the end

of earthly existence, such a person casts the mortal coils and the Jivan

travels the Arcvhiraadi Margam and reaches Sri Vaikuntam and becomes

an enjoyer of the bliss of Sri Vaikuntam and offers eternal service to the Lord

and His Consort. There , the Mukta Jivan associates with the Nitya Suris on

an equal footing and enjoys the bliss of Paramapadam.

 

NITYA JIVANS OR EVER FREE SOULS: Some examples of them are Garuda,

Adi Sesha and Vishvaksena. They as a class have not even a shadow

of the touch of Karma, and therefore have not been the victims of Samsara or the

 

empirical world of suffering.

 

The difference between the Nityas and Muktas is that the Mukta attained

the perfect bliss of residence in Vaikuntam and service to the Paramatman

AT A POINT IN TIME ,WHEREAS THE NITYAS HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING

IT FROM " BEGINNINGLESS " TIME .

 

The Nityas are of two kinds. Bhaktas, who serve Paramatman directly

and Bhagavatas who serve the Bhaktas and thus serve the Supreme

Lord indirectly. Ananta , Garuda and Vishvaksena and the like belong to

the first category and the rest to the second Category. There are other Nityas

who are not doing any particular service .They behold the others serving the

Lord

and Bhagavata Nityas with reverence and pride . There is no rivalry between

the two categories (ie) the Nitya Suris, the erstwhile Mukta, who joined the

ranks of Nityas serving the other Nityas and those, who are enjoying the bliss

of Vaikuntam without offering any kainkaryam directly or indirectly..

 

The Nityas occasionally come down to our world either with their Lord or

by themselves .If they do so, it is not because of the power of Karma, but

by their own will or at the behest of their Lord. They come down to assist

and continue the work of their Lord related to the redemption of the Baddha

Jivans.The Azhwars and the Acharyas are recognized as the incarnations

of one or other Nityas.When their work is over,they return to their home in

Sri Vaikuntam. When they are in this world,they behave like their Lord

themselves (ie) they are like human beings subjec tto the rules and

restrictions,

the sorrows and sufferings of the world.They are however NOT the victims of

Karma.In their case, it is only the semblence of suffering on the stage of

the world like that of a consummate actor on the stage (Rangam). They

undertake this work on this earth to please their Supreme Lord.

 

The Muktas and Nityas differ from Iswaran in that they unlike their Lord

are not responsible for the creation , maintenance and destruction of this

universe. He and He alone has "Jagat Kaaranatvam ,Sarvesvaratvam,

Vyapaktvam, Sarva Seshitvam, Sarva Karma samaaraadhyatvam,

Sarva Pala Pradhatvam,--- Svataa Satyasankalpatvam ".

These are Isvara Lakshanams..

 

V.Sadagopan

[Guest guest]

On 16 Dec 95 23:03:37 EST Sri. V. Sadagopan said:

>

>

>

>MUKTA JIVAN OR FREED SOUL: A Baddha Jiva , who by a study of the

> sastras at the feet of a qualified Acharya acquires the correct knowledge

>about the nature of the Body, Jivan, Achetana and Iswaran or Paramatman.

>He or She then experiences a desire for Moksha( Freedom from the

>cycles of Births and Deaths) and becomes a Mumukshu. When at the end

>of earthly existence, such a person casts the mortal coils and the Jivan

 

 

Is "mumukshu" an intermediate stage between baddha

and muktha? Are acharyas such as Jeer, mumukshu?

 

 

>NITYA JIVANS OR EVER FREE SOULS: Some examples of them are Garuda,

>Adi Sesha and Vishvaksena. They as a class have not even a shadow

>of the touch of Karma, and therefore have not been the victims of Samsara or

>the

>

>empirical world of suffering.

 

 

Is AncanEyar a nithyasUri? What is the status of

nithyasUris during praLaya kaalam?

 

>

>The difference between the Nityas and Muktas is that the Mukta attained

>the perfect bliss of residence in Vaikuntam and service to the Paramatman

>AT A POINT IN TIME ,WHEREAS THE NITYAS HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING

>IT FROM " BEGINNINGLESS " TIME .

>

 

 

How does our sampradayam differ from Dvaitham? Is it

correct that in Dvaitham there are differences among the

mukthaas, but for us all the mukthaas are same? Further,

for us, there are only two kinds of chEthanaas, perumaaL and

the rest of us. If this is so, how does differences among

nithyaas, and differences between nithyas and mukthas

explained?

 

 

requesting your patience for my ignorance,

 

 

Dileepan

[Guest guest]

That is good. Thanks, Sadagopan for the definitions.

prof.A.S-- , I recall the name. Did he tech in Vivekananda for

a short while? I think I had him as an English Prof.

 

I am reading the book "The Tamil Veda" by John Carman and Vasudha

Narayanan, a translation of Pillan's Intepretation of Tiruvaymoli.

(tiru-wai-mozzi) Uof Chicago Press. It is scholarly with an

excellent bibliography. Yhe early chapters coverUbhayaVedanta,

Alwars, Vedanta in Sanskrit according to Yamunacharya and

Ramanuja. I find it tough going and can see the need for an

acharya.

John Carman is professor of comparative religion at Harvard.

vasudha Narayanan is associate professor in religion at U of

Florida.

I feel I should have the Tamil text to follow thru. I do hope

to do this study leisurely when I retire, here and in India.

 

The need for an Acarya, especially in interpretation of poetry

is vital. One does need a lot of study to get the most. An example

is Kampan's verse introducing Vishwamitra to Dasaratha. ( this

is from Indira Parthsarathy's new Novel Ver-Patru. He is an

outstanding Tamil Novelist educated in Tamil and English. His

real name is S.Parthasarathy and hes has taught at Delhi and abroad.

His works have been translated in English and Polish).

 

Kamban: on Vishwamitra "enn-ilaa-arumthavathon"

meaning Un-enumerable or uncomparbly great (rare) tapaswi"

or enn-ill aa(cow or Kamdhenu) varumthavathon one who did

suffer tapas over kama denu

or en-nila ( many fortnights? ) --

The problem is that I did miss out learning good Tamil since

my dad wanted me to study Sanskrit, which was not in depth

even though I had it upto Inter. ( Many students still take

Sanskrit to score well in the easier tests compared to other

Indian Languages like tamil or Kannada)

Thanks again.

[Guest guest]

>

> Is "mumukshu" an intermediate stage between baddha

> and muktha? Are acharyas such as Jeer, mumukshu?

>

According to the yatindramatadipika, mumukshu is merely a seeker of liberation,

not any stage of attainment.

>

[...]

> How does our sampradayam differ from Dvaitham? Is it

> correct that in Dvaitham there are differences among the

> mukthaas, but for us all the mukthaas are same? Further,

> for us, there are only two kinds of chEthanaas, perumaaL and

> the rest of us. If this is so, how does differences among

> nithyaas, and differences between nithyas and mukthas

> explained?

>

Even the concept of liberation is different in advaita, dvaita and visistadvaita

.. Kaivalyam (self-realization) is treated different from moksham (liberation)

in Visistadvaitam. Further, Visistadvaitam admits only sayujyam whereas

dvaitam admits sameepyam, saroopyam etc equally (I think).

 

Given that, I think Visistadvaitam concerns itself only with the relation

between the Lord and Jivas and the service that the liberated individual

performs to the Lord. Therefore, any further differentiation among the

liberated seems of little concern.

 

One could perhaps view the role of nityasooris as that of catalysts in

speeding the baddha jivas towards liberation just as the Lord Himself incarnates

for such purposes in various yugas.

 

Raghu