Guest guest Posted March 26, 1996 Report Share Posted March 26, 1996 --------- Received message begins Here --------- Vijay Triplicane (vijayt) wrote: * Sri Varadhan had brought up an interesting subject for * discussion. Before going into the details of ninda stuthi * and all i have a basic doubt here. can anybody please * clarify. [...] * My question is this: * * arraar ivaRRin idai adhanai eydhuvar * cheeraar irukalaiyum eythuvar. * Doesn't this "ivaRRin idai adhanai" mean the center of * these three which is poruL? (aRam - poruL - inbam) OR am * i missing something???? 'idai' here means 'among'. Thus "ivaRRin idai adhanai" should read as "among these [three]" and not as "the one in the middle". * In the last few lines the aazhwaar even doubts the * existence of mOksham and thereby highlights the * significance of the archaa moorthy in this earth. Could * this be bcos the aazhwaar takes the role of an innocent * bhaktha ( a girl) for whom all those concepts of mOksham * and everything is like greek and latin and hence chooses * the one easy maargam to reach HIM which is uncontrolled * love towards HIM. This is a very common motif in aazhvaar paasuram. Compare this with 'ichchuvai thavira yaan pOy indhira lOgam aaLum achchuvai peridhum vENdEn aranga maa nakar uLaanE' by thoNdar adippodi aazhvaar. * 'adhunirka * yeraarmuyalvittu kaakkaippin povadhe?' The two 'madal' works by thiru mangai aazhvaar are extremely beautiful, and in fact "revolutionary" in the sense that they were completely against the existing thamizh tradition (aazhvaar "herself" mentions that in the work) prompting later day thamizh grammarians to add special categories in their book. I eagerly look forward to Sri Sadagopan's postings on these exquisite works from thiru mangai aazhvaar. --badri ----------------- S.Badrinarayanan Graduate Student Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Cornell University ----------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 1996 Report Share Posted March 27, 1996 > >Vijay Triplicane (vijayt) wrote: > >* My question is this: >* >* arraar ivaRRin idai adhanai eydhuvar >* cheeraar irukalaiyum eythuvar. > >* Doesn't this "ivaRRin idai adhanai" mean the center of >* these three which is poruL? (aRam - poruL - inbam) OR am >* i missing something???? Badri answered: > >'idai' here means 'among'. Thus "ivaRRin idai adhanai" >should read as "among these [three]" and not as "the one in >the middle". As you reach the end of the phrase, aazhvaar includes all three. ivaRRinidai adhanai = the last among these, i.e. inbam araar ... seeraar irukalaiyum eydhuvaar = they will have the other two as well, for there is no "inbam" in the absence of "aRam" and "poruL" Vijay continues: > >* In the last few lines the aazhwaar even doubts the >* existence of mOksham and thereby highlights the Please see below.... >* significance of the archaa moorthy in this earth. Could >* this be bcos the aazhwaar takes the role of an innocent >* bhaktha ( a girl) for whom all those concepts of mOksham >* and everything is like greek and latin and hence chooses >* the one easy maargam to reach HIM which is uncontrolled >* love towards HIM. > Badri answers: >This is a very common motif in aazhvaar paasuram. Compare >this with 'ichchuvai thavira yaan pOy indhira lOgam aaLum >achchuvai peridhum vENdEn aranga maa nakar uLaanE' by >thoNdar adippodi aazhvaar. Badri's observation is absolutely correct, but the example is not right. Thondaradipodi aazhvaar rejects just "indhiralOkam" here, but thirumangai "rejects" mOksham in favor of the earthly archaa moorthees. Others, as Badri points out, including Swami Sri dhEsikar, have done this. This is just a matter relative perception, and also a matter of dhayai towards us who are unable to see beyond the current realm. It is important to realize that thirumangai aazhvaar does not doubt the existence of mOksham. Consider "aRamudhal naangavayaay, moorthy moonRaay" in thiruvezhukooRRirukkai. In the beginning of siRiya thirumadal, the aazhvaar sets the stage for the high praise he later showers on the earthly archaa moorthees by praising them as even higher than para vaasudhevan in vaikuNdam whose existence is known only through word of mouth ("ulagaththaar sollum sol"). Where as, the archaa moothees are here and now, waiting to be enjoyed. IMHO, siRiya thirumadal is muyal and the archaa moorthees are kaakkai, far away, in India :-). You will agree when you listen to siRiya thirumadal, as the recitation reaches the end, in a slow deliberate pace, the voice repeats, seeraar thiruvEngadamE, thirukkOvaloorE ... and reaches crescendo with "aaraamanj soozhndha arangam" and then continues, "kaNamangai ..." Azhvaar went against the Tamil tradition and portrayed a female performing "madal Urdhal" as expression of intense and insatiable love. Madal Urdhal is extremely painful and thus the target of this action, a damsel, and her family, acquiesces for the fulfillment of the man's love. Parakaala Nayaki risks public ridicule by venturing upon this "madal Urdhal" for it is forbidden for women. Perhaps there is a lesson for us when we seem to be subjected to the ridicule of modern rationalists, for they forget that their rationality is a product of the meat machine called brain. -- dhaasan parthasarati dileepan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 1996 Report Share Posted March 27, 1996 Parthasarati Dileepan (MFPD) wrote: * >Vijay Triplicane (vijayt) wrote: * * >* significance of the archaa moorthy in this earth. Could * >* this be bcos the aazhwaar takes the role of an innocent * >* bhaktha ( a girl) for whom all those concepts of mOksham * >* and everything is like greek and latin and hence chooses * >* the one easy maargam to reach HIM which is uncontrolled * >* love towards HIM. * Badri answers: * >This is a very common motif in aazhvaar paasuram. Compare * >this with 'ichchuvai thavira yaan pOy indhira lOgam aaLum * >achchuvai peridhum vENdEn aranga maa nakar uLaanE' by * >thoNdar adippodi aazhvaar. * * * Badri's observation is absolutely correct, but * the example is not right. Thondaradipodi aazhvaar * rejects just "indhiralOkam" here, but thirumangai * "rejects" mOksham in favor of the earthly archaa * moorthees. Others, as Badri points out, including * Swami Sri dhEsikar, have done this. This is just * a matter relative perception, and also a matter of * dhayai towards us who are unable to see beyond * the current realm. Yes. I made a mistake in the sense that the interpretations are very different. The very tone is different in each case. But the basic reasons why one rejects the 'indhra logam' and the other rejects the very 'moksha' itself (albeit mockingly), are nearly identical. thoNdar adippodi aazhvaar feels that the mere pleasure of staying in arangam and praising Him as "achyutha!", "dhEvaadhi dhEvaa" and "aayar kozhundhE!" are sweeter than the enjoyment one gets in indhra's abode. thiru mangai aazhvaar grabs our attention with a very beautiful simile and asks us, "muyal irukka kakkai pin pOvadhu En?" Of course, in both the cases, they teach us an easy way to reach that vaikuNdam! I would rather not show off my limited knowledge, and would wait for Sri Sadagopan's learned postings. In my humble opinion, among the entire works of thiru mangai aazhvaar, the two madals bring out the most, and are unquestionably his best. But then, any such comparison among his works is as futile as comparing the beauty of thiru naagai azhakiyaar and thiruk kudandhai amudhanaar or thiru arangaththu aravaNaip paLLiyaar! * Azhvaar went against the Tamil tradition and portrayed * a female performing "madal Urdhal" as expression of * intense and insatiable love. Madal Urdhal is extremely * painful and thus the target of this action, a damsel, * and her family, acquiesces for the fulfillment of the man's * love. Parakaala Nayaki risks public ridicule by venturing * upon this "madal Urdhal" for it is forbidden for women. * Perhaps there is a lesson for us when we seem to be subjected * to the ridicule of modern rationalists, for they forget that * their rationality is a product of the meat machine called * brain. I wish I can get hold of periya vaachchaan piLLai's commentary on the madals. Unfortunately all I have got are a few excerpts here and there in a secondary book. The range of emotions expressed by parakaala nayaki including a dry humour, the novelty of expressions and concepts, the complete mastery of the language and prosody etc. have simply no equal anywhere else! I do hope there is a good English translation (preferably in the form of a free verse, capturing the kali veNpaa meter) for the sake of those who can not read and enjoy the original. --badri ----------------- S.Badrinarayanan Graduate Student Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Cornell University ----------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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