Guest guest Posted October 5, 1996 Report Share Posted October 5, 1996 It is true that there are certain kramas for meditating/reciting (for want of a better word in english - 'anusandhiththal' in tamizh). I will quote from some of the relevant portions of mumukshupadi here. Anything with double flower brackets {{....}} is my attempt at translating the Thirumanthraartham (MaNavaaLa MaamunigaL's commentary on mumukshupadi). Other stuff is my comments. mumukshupadi 3 says {{ 'thirumantraththinudaya seermaikkup pOrumpadi prEmaththOdE pENi anusandhikkavENum' One should meditate on the thirumantram with the love & devotion that is appropriate to its greatness ('seermai') One has to meditate on the thirumantram, not with an empty heart, but with an understanding of its greatness & with love towards. One should take care that one meditates on it without the thirumantram being heard by the non-adhikaaris ('anadhikaarikaL') }} It is important to note who the adikaaris & the non-adhikaaris are. Mumukshupadi sutram 1 deals with who a mumukshu is & what a mumukshu must know. Mumukshupadi 1: {{ 'mumukshuvukku aRiya vENdum rahasyam moonRu' There are three rahasyaas that a mumukshu must know. One who has a desire towards moksha is a mumukshu. i.e one who desires samsaara vimochanam. Even though aatmapraaptikaamas (people who have a desire to attain an understanding of their souls) have mumukshutvam they are not the adhikaaris addressed here. One who desires samsaara vimochanam as a result of bhagavath praapti kaamam (a desire to attain the Lord) is the mumukshu that is being addressed here. }} One need not understand the meaning of the thirumantram to meditate on it. The thirumantram does not lose its svaroopam even if it is recited in any other way than it is supposed to be. mumukshupadi 17: {{ 'sollum kramam ozhiyach chonnaalum than svaroopam keda nillaadhu' As in Bhagavatham 6-2-14, Uttering the name of the Lord through calling somebody by their name or making fun of someone named after the Lord will lead to the removal of all sins. (SaankEthyam paarihaasyam cha sthObham hELanamEva va| vaikuNtanaamaGrahaNamasEshaaGaharam vidhu: ||) Reciting the thirumantram even in ways that are not prescribed as the kramam will not result in any lessening of the svaroopam of the thirumantram (which is rakshakam for those who meditate on it) }} So, in my understanding, the thirumantram can be meditated upon (or recited or written, in our case) as long as it is within a community of the adhikaaris as defined above i.e. mumukshus. The people in this mailing list, I would assume, fit the above definition of adhikaari. Even if it were to be picked up by someone who is not an adhikaari, it does not lose its greatness(mahimai). In fact, if a non-adhikaari picks up the thirumantram, the mantram will do him/her/it good as it is said in mumukshupadi 18,19 & 20. Our poorvaachaaryaas were concerned with the thirumantram being misinterpreted & misused by people who are not concerned, and that I think is the reason for the qualifier. Daasaanu daasan, Varadhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 1996 Report Share Posted October 6, 1996 Thirumalai Anandanpillai wrote > >It is true that there are certain kramas for meditating/reciting (for want >of a better word in english - 'anusandhiththal' in tamizh). I will quote >from some of the relevant portions of mumukshupadi here. Anything with >double flower brackets {{....}} is my attempt at translating the >Thirumanthraartham (MaNavaaLa MaamunigaL's commentary on mumukshupadi). > Other stuff is my comments. > > >mumukshupadi 3 says >{{ 'thirumantraththinudaya seermaikkup pOrumpadi prEmaththOdE pENi > anusandhikkavENum' > > One should meditate on the thirumantram with the love & devotion that is > appropriate to its greatness ('seermai') > > One has to meditate on the thirumantram, not with an empty heart, but > with an understanding of its greatness & with love towards. One should > take care that one meditates on it without the thirumantram being heard > by the non-adhikaaris ('anadhikaarikaL') >}} > > It is important to note who the adikaaris & the non-adhikaaris are. > Mumukshupadi sutram 1 deals with who a mumukshu is & what a mumukshu > must know. > >Mumukshupadi 1: >{{ 'mumukshuvukku aRiya vENdum rahasyam moonRu' > > There are three rahasyaas that a mumukshu must know. > > One who has a desire towards moksha is a mumukshu. i.e one who desires > samsaara vimochanam. Even though aatmapraaptikaamas (people who have a > desire to attain an understanding of their souls) have mumukshutvam > they are not the adhikaaris addressed here. > One who desires samsaara vimochanam as a result of > bhagavath praapti kaamam (a desire to attain the Lord) is the mumukshu that > is being addressed here. > >}} > > One need not understand the meaning of the thirumantram to meditate on it. > The thirumantram does not lose its svaroopam even if it is recited in any other > way than it is supposed to be. > > mumukshupadi 17: >{{ 'sollum kramam ozhiyach chonnaalum than svaroopam keda nillaadhu' > > As in Bhagavatham 6-2-14, Uttering the name of the Lord through > calling somebody by their name or making fun of someone named after > the Lord will lead to the removal of all sins. > (SaankEthyam paarihaasyam cha sthObham hELanamEva va| > vaikuNtanaamaGrahaNamasEshaaGaharam vidhu: ||) > > Reciting the thirumantram even in ways that are not prescribed as the kramam > will not result in any lessening of the svaroopam of the thirumantram (which > is rakshakam for those who meditate on it) >}} > >So, in my understanding, the thirumantram can be meditated upon (or recited or >written, in our case) as long as it is within a community of the adhikaaris as >defined above i.e. mumukshus. The people in this mailing list, I would assume, >fit the above definition of adhikaari. Even if it were to be picked up by >someone who is not an adhikaari, it does not lose its greatness(mahimai). >In fact, if a non-adhikaari picks up the thirumantram, >the mantram will do him/her/it good as it is said in mumukshupadi 18,19 & 20. > >Our poorvaachaaryaas were concerned with the thirumantram being misinterpreted & >misused by people who are not concerned, and that I think is the reason for >the qualifier. > > >Daasaanu daasan, >Varadhan > The contents of your mail are valid comments. The reason I stated earlier for "un-controlled" usage of tirumantram on the net are as follows: 1. In this group, there are several folks who have not yet undertaken prapatti whichever form you may want to think (the vadagalai way or the tenkalai way of "sambandha jnana") or even samasrayanam. The tirumantram and other rahasya mantras are taught by a Acharya to a disciple during initiation. In fact the disciple is supposed to learn the meanings of the mantras also. If one talks about this mantram on the phone, probably it is ok since it is from a person to person. If such mantrams are published on the net. Say some one knows about this mantram. Say he goes to an Acharya and gets mantropadesam. He (by chance) may think "well I knew of this mantra earlier. Why did I have to travel all the way to India to get mantropadesam? Anyway I did not have the time to really understand the meanings of this mantra clearly. In fact I dont need an acharya, I have several of them on the network!". This is a little exageration but you never know with the human mind. What gaurantee do you have, that such mantras will be honored when you put them on the net. do you know how many people are on this group and do you know all of them personally very well? do you know that all of us are mumukshus? if so there are two possibilities ( one set of people should have done prapatti long time back as soon as they become mumuksus or the other set of people should have mentally understood the sambandha jnana (sharanam vraja) correctly). Is this true. Are you sure? and not all of us (including me) understand the value of this mantra completely. Please remember that this group is not a closed group of only srivaishnavas. This group is open to all who have interest in srivaishnavism or even have a reasonable "short time" interest. In fact can you gaurantee that everyone on this network would be theists forever? what if one of us (say me) becomes an atheist later and then start questioning and even demeaning the mantras? why cant people just keep the norms which are easy to follow? . We may get into arguments with some one and start quoting and saying half cooked perceptions on this mantra to others. that will be apacharam to the mantra. "mantram yatnena gopayet" is a dharmashastra issue. one should protect the value and respect of mantras with great effort. As you have quoted mumukshuppadi, it is fine, the mantra does not lose value or even the person who utters it without interest may get the benefit. But all said and done, I would appreciate if you or anyone can talk to your Acharya personally and clearly explain the issue and let us know whether tirumantram can be put on a network. I know from that from the vedanta desika point of view it is clearly a NO. I would not be comfortable using a commentary on mumukshuppadi or srivachana bhusana to take a position on this because there are lot of hidden meaning in such rich texts which are understood only during kalakshepam under an acharya for some reasonable amount of time (not jut couple of lectures). I would like to know from the practising Acharyas what the right methodology is. If such Acharyas feel that it is fine. then I guess I understand that this issue also is a point which is understood differently from different acharyas of the post Ramanuja period. then I have no argument, but will follow what I feel is right. Dasan Krishna Kalale Krishna Kalale 619-658-5612 (phone) 619-658-2115 (fax) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1996 Report Share Posted October 7, 1996 Krishna Kalale was correct in warning people to be restrained about the use of Thirumantram. Some of the reasons are: The person giving out the mantram should be qualified to do so. The person receiving the mantram should have the lakshanas of a disciple and the person giving out the mantram should be aware of such qualifications. Proper "madi" has to be observed while uttering (or writing) this mantram. Swami Desikan has also given an easy way out. The mantram with all effects can be chanted as "namo nArAyaNa" by those without upadesam, those without yajnopavitam, and those who are not in proper "madi" or correct state of "AchAram". Namo Narayana. Jaganath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1996 Report Share Posted October 7, 1996 The recent discussion about the esoteric nature of the Tirumantram and the need to control or inhibit unfettered usage in this group brings up several relevant philosophical issues. As a mumukshu or one who is desirous of being a mumukshu, I have felt that it is wrong to disqualify any human being from practicing his or her way of being that on the basis of an outsider's pereception (i.e., perception of another person in determining whether I am qualified to even utter something as divine as the thirumantram), which is an entirely subjective state. One of the cornerstones for the inherent value of Sri Vaishnava sampradayam as propounded by Emberumaanaar and some of our foremost Acharyas (Sri MaNavaaLa Maamunigal, Sri PiLLai Lokacharyar, Sri Parasara Bhattar, Sri Azhagiya MaNavALa perumAL nAyanAr to name a few) is the spirit of open-ness and the inclusive nature of the philosophy, the fact that no human being is precluded from participating in the joy of uttering the Lord's names. In Mumukshupadi, it is stated that every one desirous of pursuing the ultimate goal of Moksham at the feet of our lord has to know three rahasyangal: Mumukshuvukku aRiya vENDum rahasyam moonru adil prathama rahasyam thirumantram ..... The other two rahasyas in turn are contained within the Tirumantram (dvayam and Charama slokam). Now, at the surface, these divine sayings are accessible to any human being. There is not and there ought not to be any restriction on uttering or meditating on these. The rahasyam components above stems in the meanings that our pooravacharayaLs have given us that is a virtual pathway to understanding the relationship of the jeevatma wrt paramaatma. Now, this knowledge can be obtained only at the feet of a qualified Acharya. There is a definite difference between the states of uttering the Tirumantram with no cognisance of its deeper meaning and its anusandhaanam with a complete knowledge of the deeper meanings. However, it would be wrong to sideline another human being as an anadhikAari because x or y thinks so. Who are we to decide someone is or is not an adhikaari? In fact there is no support in mumukshuppaDi for Sri Varadhan's following statements: *****begin Sri Varadhan's quote****** > One should take care that one meditates on it without the thirumantram being > heard by the non-adhikaaris ('anadhikaarikaL') ....... > in fact, if a non-adhikaari picks up the thirumantram, the mantram will do > him/her/it good as it is said in mumukshupadi 18, 19 & 20 > ******End Sri Varadhan's quote******* Mumukshuppadi 18 - 20: idhudaan kulam tharum engira paDiye yellaa apekshithangaLaiyum koDukkum Iswarya kaivalya bagavallabhangaLai aasaippattavargaLukku avattrai koDukkum karma gnyana bhaktigaLile izhindavargaLukku virodhiyaippokki avathai thalaikkatti kkoDukkum It is extremely important to be accurate when quoting our poorvacharyaars because there cannot be a greater bhAgavathApachAram than ascribing narrow, regressive notions (clearly stemming from our ignorance) to their utterances. Comments by Sri Kalale in this context brings to fore the futility of going around in circles in defining qualifying requirements for being able to discuss these issues, and it is important to remember something that Sri periyaazhwaar says in periyaazhwaar thirumozhi (fourth shathakam-pathu, sixth thirumozhi): kaasum karaiyuDai: maNNIl piRandu maNNahum maaniDa pEriTTu angu eNNam onRinRirukkum ezhai manisargaal karumuhil kaNNan naamame naNNumin naaraNan tham annai naraham puhaaL In Sri vachana BhooshaNam, Sri PiLLai lokacharyar very eloquently points the need for recognizing our own thazhmai (state of inferiority) thus: manassukku theemaiyAvadu swaguNathaiyum bhagavat bhAgavatha doshathaiyu ninaikkai dOsham ninaiyAdozhigiradhu guNambOle uNDAyiRukkavonnu doshamuNDenRu ninaikkil adhu paradosham anRu swadosham To think of oneself in superior terms is a dosham. Further, to find fault or even non-qualifying states in others is not paradosham, rather it is swa-dOsham. When time ought to be spent in ridding one of one's own state of nescience (and the Acharya feels there is not enough time in a lifetime to achieve this), it is hardly meaningful to indulge in wondering about the states of evolution (or lack of them) for others. Aazhwaar Emberumaanaar Jeeyar ThiruvadigaLe SharaNam Sridhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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