Sri Dileepan's posting..some explanations.

[Guest guest]

No doubt His grace is the prime cause for salvation, but not begging for it

(mOksham) seems a little, I am sorry to say, haughty to me. note that the

aazhvaars did not stop with just praising the Lord, but also pleaded for

His thiruvadi mOksham, "adikkeezh amarndhu pugundhEnEappOdhaik ippOthE

solli vaiththEn", etc., etc. So, it seems to me, pleading for it is quite

apt for us.

>From my personal experience I feel not asking for something that has

already occurred in my mind is a sign of pride. In this context I am

reminded of the Thiruppathi Goindhaa story posted here by Sri Sudarshan

where the bhaktha was not bashful proclaiming for all the world to hear

what he had asked the Lord to give him the previous year. After all is He

not "koLLak kuraivilan, vENdiRRellaam tharum vaLLal"?

 

 

Thank you, Dileepan

 

Dear Dileepan,

I understand your point. But you should perceive the vyaakyaanams

based on the context. Without getting into the details of whether

prapatti is an act or not...let me try to convey something.

 

Our srivaishNava sampradhaayam attributes great importance to a

bhaagavathaa (nammaazhwaars "un adiyaarkku adiyaarkku...so many

times, is one of many references) So at times when explaining the

bhaagavatha perumai (greatness) our poorvaachaaryaaLs have crossed

several conservative limits. (The level of conservatism is

subjective, though. )

 

In many of thirumaNGgai aazhwaar's paasurams, esp in the ones where

he takes the naayikaa bhaavam (as a lady love), she (aazhwaar) takes

a stance and never even consider Him some times.(oodal). And He is the

one who is so desperate to win his lady's love even though she

doesn't even look at him. Looking at

this from the point of view of explaining the bhaagavatha perumai we

won't say that thirumaNGgai aazhwaar committed an apachaaram against

the Lord or something like that. This is purely emotional aspect of

devotion. Who are we to commit even the apachaaram. Even if it is

so, I am his small kid, and i didn't salute my father

or whatever- My father being so compassionate and graceful is

NOT at All going to punish me. He is so passionate towards me and

considers my acquaintance to be so interesting and joyful (once

again this is to explain the bhaagavatha perumai) that he is not

going to punish me. If he does so then it marks a dent to his

kalyaaNa guNaas (his grace, that he is easy to reach -sulabhan

etc...) A true bhakthaa is always fearless. He strongly beleives

that the LORD is there to take care of him. (Like this innocent kid

having infinite faith in his father)

(This doesn't mean that a bhaagavathaa can do anything he wants just

because the Lord is so graceful. There is a thin line here...

Looking at this from the perumaaL's point of view, He considers

these as child's pranks and doesn't punish them. From the

bhaagavathaa's point of view he should not do anything that would

displease Him even a little bit)

 

 

Another of thirumaNGgai mannan's stories goes like this.

Aazhwaar goes to a dhivya dhEsam to sing a paasuram on that

perumaaL, but perumaaL didn't pay attention ( or the curtain was

closed - or something like that). Aazhwaar grew restless and decided

to quit without singing the paasuram. Thaayaar realises this and

sends (drives!) perumaaL behind aazhwaar to get a paasuram from him

which perumaaL does and meets aazhwaar in another dhivya dhEsam and

gets one single line in praise of Him in the new DD paasuram. So

goes the story. This story is not to convey the haughtiness of the

aazhwaar (which is how it looks superficially) but to explain how

perumaaL and thaayaar consider the bhaagavathaa to be so important

and how they long for getting a paasuram in praise of them from his

beloved bhaagavathaa.

 

We must definitely plead Him for mOksham. By nature our soul is a

slave to HIM.

I think the sriraNGgam aachaaryaas feel this way: ( I am not very

good at this intricate things. This is what i think. Probably

Mohan/Varadhan/Mani could throw some more light on this)

 

We should not think that it is because of our

pleading that he gave us the mOksham. The act of giving the mOksham

is by HIM. It is not that we do something and *attain* mOksham. It

is that he *gives* mOksham to us just because he feels immensely

happy being with his beloved bhakthaa.

 

In my effort to translate those portions of amalanaadhipiraan, i

haven't done a good job of explaining it in great detail along with

the context. My ignorance and poor knowledge is the prime reason for

it. If u get a chance to listen to the kaalakshEbam ( the one i

have) you will definitely be fascinated by the inherent meaning of

these verses as explained by a learned srivaishNavar. I am sorry if

i have conveyed something wrong. I can send u a copy of the tape if

i can locate the tape that contains this stuff.

 

 

adiyEn

Vijay Triplicane

(Viji)

[Guest guest]

Dear Viji,

I did not mean to object to anything that was said, only that I wanted to

highlight the view that asking for His grace is perfectly in line with our

nature and we must do so as have all our poorvacharyaas and aazhvaars. I

really enjoyed your posts and other posts from Mohan and Varadan. Please

do not think I was critical or anything. If my post seemed that way I am

really sorry and I will try to be more careful with my writing in the future.

 

-- Thanks, Dileepan

 

 

-- Dileepan