SRI MANI'S REQUEST

[Guest guest]

SALUTATIONS TO BHAGAVATHOTHAMAS

 

Some time ago Sri Mani requested that the Bhakti contributors consider spacing

out their postings to allow time for study and comprehension. Some people

thought that it was a little strange coming from the host. Some others thought

it was justified. Lest people should lose sight of the significance of this

development, I thought I would humbly present my point of view.

 

To me, the request did not sound strange. I thought it was long time coming, if

not from Mani, from some member who is familiar with the group's activities and

postings on various subjects for any period of time.

 

Frankly, when I joined the group, I was very enthusiastic about being able to

participate productively and felt being privileged to be in the good company of

so many erudite people. Now and then, I was able to express my voice about a

topic under discussion. The enthusiasm has now worn off however, partly because

time and again I have felt out of place with the group's objectivity. If there

was one, I think the group has lost it. I have tried but unsuccessfully, to

get some of the youth members of our society to to the group. They

came forward but backed off after a short while. The reason given to me was that

the postings were too lengthy, repetitive, too abstract and at times too

outdated in some ways. Though I do not totally agree with this point of view, I

surely think that there is more truth to it than meets the eye.

 

The discussions and parables that figure in the discussions do not seem to have

a message for them. It might be argued that only if one is interested and stays

long enough will appreciate the depth of information being put out. The purpose

of the discussions does not seem to focus on winning new followers but for some

of us to savor and regurgitate the information that we already have or come to

grow with. There is no emphasis on how and when one can actually adopt the

moral, philosophical or religious import that a story or an event in the life of

an Alwar or Acharya, in our own lives on this earth and how the same can be

passed on to the progeny. It may also be claimed that the information is out

there for anyone to take advantage of but it is not the responsibility of the

information giver to find out if it has an effect if any on the receiver. The

information being put out however, will have to deserve attention before anybody

can really take advantage of it. If the format or the material is the same as

or similar to what can be found in any book, we do not need a mailing list such

as this. On the other hand, if the postings can focus on showing how the ways of

our religion can carry us through our lives as mortals, it will be not only of

practical help but more interest can perhaps be generated and we can expect more

lively discussions of contemporary relevance from many more members than now.

 

Adiyen.

 

Keshava Prasad

[Guest guest]

This turned out to be a long mail - so please excuse me.

 

Dear Sri Keshava Prasad,

 

I am not sure what age group you refer to by "youth members", but I

am in my late twenties, and I believe I am on the younger side of

this wonderful forum dedicated to discussions on our sampradayam.

Being almost an "illiterate" in Sri Vaishnavam and Vedanta, I prefer

to keep silent and listen to some of the great teachers on this

list. However, your e-mail has prompted me to write this, and I hope

you will take this in the right spirit.

 

I went back and checked Sri Mani's first mail announcing the

creation of this bhakti-list (17 May 1994 -

http://www.best.com/~mani/sv/bhakti/archives/all94/0000.html), and

to quote him

 

""...discussing items relevant to Sri Vaishnavism, Alvars,

and our Acharyas."

 

This objective has clearly remained in focus throughout these last

three years. Occasional discussions on *sensitive* topics,

are bound to crop up, and these, in mho, tend only to improve one's

clarity in the long run.

 

I am not sure if this forum or any other forum that discusses

profound issues such as bhakti and philosophy can take up the

exclusive task of trying to "convert" uninterested people (youth or

otherwise) into bhakti mArgA. However, if one has even a

"seed" of interest, the discussions on this list provide ample

opportunities for one to begin to understand the bhakti mArgA, and

more *importantly*, give one the courage (to a youth for e.g.) to

to pursue such a path - there are numerous teachers on this list,

old and young, who provide these by their erudition, humility,

sincerity, and above all, bhakti.

 

I did not intend to write this - but to provide you with a concrete

example - until a few years back, I was agnostic in my views of

religion and such (due to my bad karma, I am sure!), and fortunately

for me, by Lord's grace, things turned around in these last few

years. Now, the entire bhakti list is like a University for me, with

unpaid teachers sharing their wealth of knowledge, experience, and

above all their wisdom, and I for one, would be a loser if not for

the current level of articles from SrimAns Sadagopan, Sudarshan,

Anbil Ramaswamy, K. Kalale, S. Rengarajan, M. Rangaswamy, T.S.

Sundararajan, N. Krishnamachari, Mani Varadarajan, S. Vidyasankar,

Ramakrishnan, and Smts. Prof. Vasudha Narayanan,

K. Krishnamachari, and several others. My sincere thanks goes to

all of them.

 

The issues discussed here have far more relevance than anything

contemporary - however, if you suggest that the style of writing

should include contemporary examples - several of the people above

indeed keep this in mind - for example, Sri Sudarshan's

articles on PPS and bhishma-stuthi are stellar examples.

 

To conclude, I think this group is growing stronger day by day, and

some of the "younger" members I know throroughly enjoy the current

level of postings, and indeed feel blessed to be part of such a

group.

 

adiyEn,

---

govind rengarajan

 

On 27 Jul 1997, KESHAVA PRASAD wrote:

> Frankly, when I joined the group, I was very enthusiastic about being able to

> participate productively and felt being privileged to be in the good company

of

> so many erudite people. Now and then, I was able to express my voice about a

> topic under discussion. The enthusiasm has now worn off however, partly

because

> time and again I have felt out of place with the group's objectivity. If there

> was one, I think the group has lost it. I have tried but unsuccessfully, to

> get some of the youth members of our society to to the group. They

> came forward but backed off after a short while. The reason given to me was

that

> the postings were too lengthy, repetitive, too abstract and at times too

> outdated in some ways. Though I do not totally agree with this point of view,

I

> surely think that there is more truth to it than meets the eye.

>

> The discussions and parables that figure in the discussions do not seem to

have

> a message for them. It might be argued that only if one is interested and

stays

> long enough will appreciate the depth of information being put out. The

purpose

> of the discussions does not seem to focus on winning new followers but for

some

> of us to savor and regurgitate the information that we already have or come to

> grow with. There is no emphasis on how and when one can actually adopt the

> moral, philosophical or religious import that a story or an event in the life

of

> an Alwar or Acharya, in our own lives on this earth and how the same can be

> passed on to the progeny. It may also be claimed that the information is out

> there for anyone to take advantage of but it is not the responsibility of the

> information giver to find out if it has an effect if any on the receiver. The

> information being put out however, will have to deserve attention before

anybody

> can really take advantage of it. If the format or the material is the same as

> or similar to what can be found in any book, we do not need a mailing list

such

> as this. On the other hand, if the postings can focus on showing how the ways

of

> our religion can carry us through our lives as mortals, it will be not only of

> practical help but more interest can perhaps be generated and we can expect

more

> lively discussions of contemporary relevance from many more members than now.

>

> Adiyen.

>

> Keshava Prasad

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 04:30 PM 7/27/97 EDT, Sri.Keshava Prasad wrote his long post titled

> SALUTATIONS TO BHAGAVATHOTHAMAS

 

 

AT LAST we seem to have some serious feed-back from the list !!

 

Sri.Prasad starts by asking the right questions :

What is the bhakti-list all about ?

Is it a "chat-group" ?

Is it a "mutual-admiration club" ?

Is it a cyber-community ?

If so, what sort of community ? "Networking" relationships ? Community of

sects/groups ---- advaitins, thengalais, vadagalais, this mutt, that mutt ?

 

Anyway, what does Sri.Prasad want it to be ? And what has he personally done

about it ?

 

************************************

He goes on to write :

>The enthusiasm has now worn off however, partly because

>time and again I have felt out of place with the group's objectivity. If there

>was one, I think the group has lost it.

 

Mr.Prasad, I am myself a relative new-comer to this group. But I think the

group's objectivity is very clear and it is given in the

BHAKTI-INFO-RESPONSE. I quote from it :

 

"The Bhakti list is dedicated to discussing Visistadvaita Vedanta

philosophy and the Sri Vaishnava religion. Sri Vaishnavism is

one of India's principal religious traditions, with a long and

colorful philosophical, literary, and social history, dating

back at least 1500 years. Its accompanying philosophy, known

as Visistadvaita, continues to be one of the dominant schools

of Vedanta, the orthodox philosophy of Hinduism."

 

The above, Mr.Prasad, was written by Sri.Mani Varadarajan and the key words

are:

"Sri Vaishnavism (has).... a long and colorful philosophical, literary, and

social history, dating back at least 1500 years....It is the orthodox

philosophy of Hinduism..."

 

Given the above facts, Mr.Prasad, you must understand that discussions in

the group are bound to be "long", "colourful" (not to your tastes, perhaps),

"literary" (even long-winded) and with a little bit of "history", dreary

"philosophy" and a wide variety of "social" comment thrown in for effect.

 

But that's exactly what a "community of minds" is all about ! That's exactly

the "objectivity" of the Bhakti-group ! Its "free-for-all" environment is

what makes the Bhakti mailing-list so different ! It is such a wonderful

barometer of what contemporary SriVaishnava minds on the verge of the

21st-century think about themselves, their religion and their lives !

 

If Mr.Prasad can define the "Objectivity of the group" more clearly perhaps

it might help. He should perhaps also ask himself what has he personally

done to shape and influence the "objectivity" of the group all these years ?

 

I am personally amazed at the energy and sweat that young members like Vijay

Srinivasan, Sempath Rengarajan, Mohan Sagar, Sri and Smt.Kalyani

Krishnamachari, Sri.Bharadwaj, Sri.Dileepan, Sri.Varadan,Sri.P.B.Anand,

Sri.Seshadri, Sri.Kalale, Sri.Rangaswamy, Sri Sundaresan and many others

bring to the wide variety of subjects they discuss on this list. The sharp

questions they ask, the comments, the insights, the repartees they come up

with now and then are all so interesting. Senior members like Sri.Sadagopan

and Sri.Anbil of course flood us with so much that is useful and nourishing.

 

As a group the above members have indeed done such a lot to define what

Sri.Prasad calls the "objectivity" of the mailing list.

 

So what is Mr.Prasad talking about ? I don't understand.

>I have tried but unsuccessfully, to

>get some of the youth members of our society to to the group. They

>came forward but backed off after a short while. The reason given to me was

that

>the postings were too lengthy, repetitive, too abstract and at times too

>outdated in some ways. Though I do not totally agree with this point of view, I

>surely think that there is more truth to it than meets the eye.

 

 

What do these "youth members" Mr.Prasad spoke to expect from the list ?

Great jokes, gags, one-liners, tit-bits and punch-lines ?

 

I recommed Mr.Prasad's "youth-brigade", if they want something less

"abstract", they should all go to a MacDonald's outlet and have a

"burger".... Bye the way, let me warn you, Mr.Prasad, MacDonald's burgers,

too, are hopelessly "repetitive" in size, shape, taste and content !

 

>The discussions and parables that figure in the discussions do not seem to have

>a message for them.

 

 

Let me take up this point of Mr.Prasad as I consider myself the biggest

narrator on this list of "parables", "short-stories", "grandma-yarns" and

"apocrypha".

and maybe I'm right in thinking that Mr.Prasad directs this remark to me.

 

Mr.Prasad, Sir, the many abstruse matters of SriVaishnavism cannot often be

grasped by ordinary people like us without the aid of "parables". One can

listen to the story of the Ramayana all one's life, ad nauseaum, ad

infinitum, and still fail to fully understand its essence.

 

Sri.Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was probably the biggest "story-teller" of all

times. He was also one of the greatest saints of India this millennium.

 

If stories irk the likes of Mr.Prasad on the list there's always the "trash"

button on your PC ! Use it.

 

>The purpose of the discussions does not seem to focus on winning new

followers

 

What gave Mr.Prasad the idea that we are all mighty crusaders and

proselytizers for the cause of SriVaishnavism ?!! We have no need for fresh

acolytes, Mr.Prasad, thank you, but I now get an idea of what your own

"objectivity" really is !

>There is no emphasis on how and when one can actually adopt the

>moral, philosophical or religious import that a story or an event in the

life >of an Alwar or Acharya, in our own lives on this earth and how the

same can be

>passed on to the progeny.

 

 

At least many of us on the list are trying to do so, Mr.Prasad. We may be

failing in our efforts but we are not professional philosophers or saints.

But we are still trying, and damned hard too ! We aren't sitting back and

passing judgment on or "pooh-poohing" those who do.

 

>It may also be claimed that the information is out

>there for anyone to take advantage of but it is not the responsibility of the

>information giver to find out if it has an effect if any on the receiver.

 

Mr.Prasad, how can you be so naive as to think that "feed-back" is received

from members only through the "main-list" ? Do you know how many

private-mails I personally get from members --- some "loving" and also a

few, what you may call, "hate-mail" ! Do you know how many private mails

Sri.Sadagopan, the biggest contributor to our "list", receives ?

 

In any case, can you possibly appreciate the fine concept of humble

"nishkAmakainkaryam"? Have you ever in your life stopped to give

"feed-back" to the lowly sweeper who clears rubbish in the front-yard of a

temple and washes it with cow-dung ?

>If the format or the material is the same as

>or similar to what can be found in any book, we do not need a mailing list

>such as this.

 

Pardon us humble folks, Sir Prasad, some of us are deficient in

book-learning ! Anything humbly offered thorugh the mailing-list is good

enough for us. What we do not savor we ignore. What is good we absorb.

>On the other hand, if the postings can focus on showing how the ways of

>our religion can carry us through our lives as mortals, it will be not only of

>practical help but more interest can perhaps be generated and we can expect

morelively discussions of contemporary relevance from many more members than

now.

>>Keshava Prasad

 

Why don't you show us how to do it ? Why don't you show us all the Great Way

yourself, Sri.Keshava Prasad, we'd be much obliged and follow you implicitly !

 

I am waiting, Mr. Prasad !

 

sudarshan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Prasad,

 

I am at a loss to understand why you have made such comments. It seems to

me that Mani's request was intended to reduce multiple postings from the

more erudite members of this forum to give all of us time to thoroughly read

the material. I do not at all think that it was to be used as a pretext to

complain about the members of this forum or the subjects that they are

writing about.

 

I would concur with the comments of the others that the focus of this forum

is - and should always be - SriVaishnavism. For it is this very religion -

and the wondrous Deity who is at the center of it - that has brought

together people from around this nation and the world and transformed them

into a unique extended community. Yes, our discussions may sometimes become

heady, and at times long winded. But, from these, we have found a sense of

comaraderie and support in our spiritual interests, and a source of

knowledge to further us in our path.

 

Be that as it may, however, there is one point that you made that caught my

attention:

>I have tried but unsuccessfully, to

>get some of the youth members of our society to to the group. They

>came forward but backed off after a short while. The reason given to me was

that

>the postings were too lengthy, repetitive, too abstract and at times too

>outdated in some ways. Though I do not totally agree with this point of view, I

>surely think that there is more truth to it than meets the eye.

>

 

Perhaps, the "youth members" of your community would find some comfort in

knowing that the very founder of this forum, Sri Mani Varadarajan, being in

his mid-twenties, is a "fellow youth member," if that's how you define it.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised to know how many members of this

forum are under the age of thirty. Indeed, their level of dedication and

interest in our religion should be an inspiration to their counterparts,

both in India and the US. As for myself, I am 32, and really do not

consider myself a "youth" anymore. But, I should state that I have had

interest in understanding our sAmpradayam for over a decade. I do not wish

to sound boastful of this interest, it is only be due to the Grace of Sriman

Narayana who gave me the gift of pious parents, and more recently, a

tradition-loving wife.

 

Having been US raised, however, I share your concern that much of our

emerging Asian Indian American Community is losing touch with the strength

and solace that a healthy sense of religion can provide. I was saddened to

read the above and hope that you will continue in your efforts to encourage

these young people to discover their religious and cultural heritage -

whether or not they find interest in this forum. Perhaps, one day, by His

Grace, these young people will recognize the wisdom of our ancient religion,

or at least, will appreciate the hard work of the erudite members of this group.

 

adiyEn,

 

Mohan