A CHALLENGE

[Guest guest]

Dear Bagavathothamas:

 

I want to thank Murali for his quick review of the SDDS

sponsored Srivaishnava conference in Pomona NY which, I also had the privilege

to be a part of. I shall however defer posting my impressions until after Sri

A.R. has had a chance to publish the proceedings which, I think he is planning

on doing.

 

In the mean time, I have a challenge posed to me by a

young relative of mine whom I inadvertently provoked for a discussion on

religion. I don't believe that he is an athiest. But his question was a shocker

and I am still recovering from it, let alone try and answer it. I thought I had

an easy task of weaning some of these youth to Srivaishnaviam. But I don't think

that I am quite upto this task I can think of a couple of answers. However, I do

not want to jeopardize this only chance perhaps, of making the right argument to

get his life on track. And hence, I want to be doubly sure of my answer. I have

reproduced below our brief conversation that we have had so far.

 

Invitation.................................

 

"....................... How is school ? You said that you didnt give much

importance to religion

.. and its ways. If you have a few moments, can you tell me why. I would like to

.. engage you in a dialog if you will, and try to learn about your perspective on

.. such matters. That is, if you dont mind going into a discussion with me.

...................................."

 

Response

>

 

"........................................I would love to have this dialog with

you. It will give me an opportunity to understand another perspective. As for

time, (what does a grad student do other than have his beauty sleep? )

 

My basic attitude is that I cant bring myself to believe that there is a "God"

whom we can look towards for guidance, comfort or to fear. All my experience has

been to suggest that there is no influence that can be attributed to this "God".

I am using the quotes as I am using God in the context most people understand as

- as someone who is in charge of the universe, who takes care of his "devotees"

and who punishes people who "sin". Let me know if we are on common terms here

when we refer to God or if you mean God in a more inclusive sense and if so what

it is.

 

I think of God in a more general sense as someone/something we dont know about

and because our minds need some explanations to the processes that go on around

us, we *need* somebody to be the cause of this. I cant crystallize the concept

beyond this.

 

However, I recognize that believing in a God in the conventional sense is very

satisfying to the human psyche to attribute the cause of all the weird processes

to this person and relieves the mind of excessive search for answers and brings

some semblance of order and purpose to this chaos we see around us. But this

benefit I reckon can be got only by total belief in the presence of God and I

cant bring myself to believe in this God for the simple reason that as soon as I

want to do this my mind asks: how do you know that there is this person?

 

As for religion, I can only appreciate the social benefits and nothing beyond

that.........................................................."

 

I have chosen to post this as a direct challenge to our members because we have

all signed on to an unwritten agreement to educate wherever ignorance is

encountered. Also I see some similarity here to a recent posting by Krishna

Praba which, curiously enough was not responded to if I remember correct.

I am seeking help from the Bhagavatas in making the right argument. Or I woud

like to hear if any of you thinks that any argument may be futile. Is there an

instance in our ithihasas or mythology which could throw some light in this

direction? Would Sri A. R., Mhan Sagar, Murali, P. Dileepan, Sampath Rengarajan

or any other Bhagavata care to comment? In order to keep the attention of some

of these restless minds, I suggest that if you care to answer, the answer be

rather brief and to the point. The last remark is made without any malice or

reference to any of the past transactions on this list, is definitely not

directed to anyone in particula and hence, shuld not offend anyone. If you

detect some arrogance and disrespect in the young man's note which I think may

even be considered an apacharam, hope the Bhagavatas will forgive him.

 

Adiyen Dasan.

 

Keshava Prasad.

[Guest guest]

On 2 Sep 1997, KESHAVA PRASAD wrote:

> benefit I reckon can be got only by total belief in the presence

> of God and I cant bring myself to believe in this God for the

> simple reason that as soon as I want to do this my mind asks: how

> do you know that there is this person?

>

 

Dear Sri Prasad,

 

I can identify easily with the questions raised by your young friend.

Here's my two-cents worth, and hope this helps.

 

It is clear that there are a lot of opposites around us (birth and

death, pleasure and pain, etc.), and there must be a

constancy/substratum on which everything is happening. This constancy

is Sriman Naaraayanaa. But, this is a mere intellectual statement. How

to realize Him? There are two ways as indicated by our teachers. One

is prapatti, which imho, is very difficult. People who have taken this

mArgA are indeed truly blessed. The other way is bhakti, which also

goes hand in hand with our visEsha dharmA. This approach is almost

akin to focus/dedication/effort that one would require in any

scientific effort. Indeed, this approach to realize Him is an

experiment guided by the overwhelming statistical evidence of

our Alwars, AchAryAs, and other great saints. Sincere practice of

our visEsha dharmA, and say atleast, ten minutes of meditation

in the morning and evening, leads to chitta suddhi, and slowly, one

begins to perceive His presence.

 

To summarize, I think conviction of His existence immediately is

difficult, reserved perhaps only for truly great souls. However,

a conviction to find Him/Truth is a necessary step, and this will

slowly lead us to Him. And conviction to find the truth comes from

merely looking at ourselves, our lives, and the universe, and

wondering what is going on?

 

adiyEn,

govind rengarajan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Prasad

 

It was wonderful meeting you and getting to know you in

person during the SDDS meet. The challenge you have thrown

to all of us is most important and timely (give that

we had a panel discussion on similar topics during the SDDS

meet). Not many learned member in this forum have taken up

this challenge yet, and i hope it is not presumptuous on my

part to do so. However, i would like to share with you a

short story, a true story, which i hope will answer atleast

part of the question raised by your nephew.

 

I had my Upanayanam when i was 12 and was regularly doing

Sandhayavandanam (SV) et al. till my 12th grade (when i was with

my parent). After i got into IIT and moved to a hostel, i

slowly started to default on this. Thinking back, i

feel this was because i did not understand the mantras in

SV. I thought it was a pointless ritual that was out of

context in this "scientific" age. Maybe the other reason

was that i was learning to be more "rational" and "logical"

in my outlook. I was taught to believe only that which

i could see and quantify. Anything that exists out

of this realm, was fictitious and thus inconsequential.

 

So i felt that GOD was just an concoction of the mind to

satisfy some of the inherent fears we all have.

Just as your nephew has stated, GOD to me

was just a defeatist escape route to some of the

fundamental questions such as "What is this Universe?",

"Why are we here?", "What will happen to us after we die?".

And i could not bring myself to believe that a PERSON I

DID NOT KNOW FOR SURE WAS THERE, was actually the

primal cause (as all our scripture have stated).

 

When i used to go home for vacation, i would bring up these topic

during dinner time. However hard my father tried to explain to

me, he just could not convince me that GOD existed. If it were

just his failed attempt to prove to me the "theoretical" existence

of GOD, maybe my father would not have been that worried. But slowly

things started to change and I started to indulge in things

that my father did not approve.

 

So with a heavy heart he brought this to the attention of

H.H. 45th Jeer of the Ahobila Muth (BTW, this was during the

Jeer's poorvashrama days and my father was his student, doing

Rahasya-Traya-Sara kalakshepum under him). Immediately

Azhagiyasinger asked my father to bring me to the next kalakshepam

and said he would talk about what as Sri Vaishnavas we are

supposed to do, what we should not do and why we should do

a few things and not others. When my father asked me to

come, i bluntly refused. When this news went back to Azhagiya-

singer, all that he said was," Don't worry Sarangapani, I

will PRAY TO SRI MALOLAN to show your son the right path."

 

It was the earnest wish of this mahan that

brought a total change in my life. Because just a few month

after this incident, i went to Ahobilam (by shear providence

i should say). I had never planed on this trip, but at the

last minute my father's friend fell ill and could not make the

trip. Since my father did not want to waste the ticket, he asked

me to fill in. Although i actually had other plans (like a

trip to Otty with my batch mates), this got canceled and

i made the trip to Ahobilam instead.

 

In Ahobilam it was the "Sathi" festival, when H.H. Azhagiya-singer

takes the Utsava Murthy of Sri Malolan to the Mula-Vigraham and

does Aradhanam to the both of them. Here my father asked me to get

my Samashrayanam and i agreed (for the first time i did what my

father wanted me to do!!). After this i came to this country and

started learning more on our Sampradayam (i still don't know

what made me go in this direction). Around 2 years back,

thanks to Sri Dileepan, i was introduced to the bakthi list. Since

then i have learned quite a bit about our Sampradayam and have

made some wonderful friends. Infact i recently also had my

Prapatthi from H.H. 45th Jeer of the Ahobila Mutt. To me the

question you nephew has raised is no more a stumbling block.

Perumal and Thayar that we see in the temple are not just a

piece of rock any more. They are an " Archa Avathara" in the true

sense of the word, waiting to be associated with and enjoyed

by all of us.

 

I apologize for going at a tangent, but the point i am trying to

make is the following. No amount of "mental speculation" can

make one believe that Perumal exists. This knowledge can come

only though "Perumal's kataksham" and the only sure way to get this

is by your "Acharya's Kataksham". So Sri Prasad, if you are

serious about answering the doubts that your nephew has, you

should make a trip to India and get these clarified from you

Acharya directly. And you should do a Divya-Desa yatra in India.

This is my humble opinion.

 

SRIMATHE SRIVANSATAKOPA SRI VEDANTADESIKA YATEENDRA MAHADESIKAYA NAMAH.

SRIMATHE SRI LAKSHMINRSIMHA-DIVYAPADUKA-SEVAKA SRIVANSATAKOPA

SRI NARAYANA YATEENDRA MAHADESIKAYA NAMAH.

 

dasan

ramesh