Thirumangai Alwar and Thirujnanasambhanda Nayanar

[Guest guest]

> I have a particular question regarding the meeting between Thirumangai

> Alwar and Thirujnanasambhanda Nayanar at Seergazhi. I have read that the

> Alvar defeated jnanasambhandar in debate and received the title

> 'Nalukavi perumal' from him.

 

This meeting, while mentioned in some traditional biographies,

is recognized by most authorities as being anachronistic.

The great Saiva saint tiru-jnAna-sambandhar postdates tirumangai

AzhvAr by at least a century.

 

Nonetheless, the story is an interesting one. Tirumangai had

already been reputed as "nAlu kavi perumAL" (master of four-fold

poetry) before he had a chance meeting with Sambandhar at

Sirkazhi, where the latter was then at residence. The AzhvAr

proposed a debate with the Sambandhar, but soon discovered

that there was no temple to PerumaaL in that area. This being

the case, he refused to enter the disputation in such a place.

 

By chance, a Vaishnava woman passed by, and Tirumangai asked

to borrow an image of Vishnu. She gladly lent him her Lord

taaDalan (Krishna?). Recharged, he then began his debate

with Sambandhar. The latter composed a poem which Tirumangai

criticized. Sambandhar asked Tirumangai to compose one in

return, and the story goes that Tirumangai then composed the

10 verses in praise of kAzhic cI rAmar (Sri Rama at Sirkazhi). [*]

 

[*] It may strike the reader as strange that the story

declares that Tirumangai composed a poem to Rama at Sirkazhi

when it was just stated that no Vishnu temple existed in

that area. It is, however, very much in the style of the

AzhvArs to not stick to singing of a particular manifestation

of Vishnu at any particular shrine. For example, in tirukkaNNa-

puram, reputed to be a temple to Krishna, kulasekhara AzhvAr

praises the god there predominantly as Rama. Similarly,

it would not be out of character for Tirumangai to praise his

idol of Krishna also as Rama.

 

The story continues that Sambandhar was delighted at hearing

this, confessed that he was beaten, and declared that the AzhvAr

fully deserved the title of nAlu kavi perumaaL. As a tribute,

he presented Tirumangai with his spear (vEl), which is why

Tirumangai is invariably depicted with this weapon in Vaishnava

temples.

 

Not a story to be taken very seriously, but still charming in

its own way.

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

Dear bAgawathALs,

 

On the eve of holiest of all sravanams, purattasi sravanam, i do my

maRu pravEsam in this forum, as promised to the two elderly bAgwathALS of this

and SDDS group. Sri Anbil Ramaswamy and V Sadagopan have persistantly requested

me to start contributing in addition to several others who also wrote by

personal mails. My exile was a self imposed vratham for, last a month and odd.

I promised to Sri VS and Sri AR that i will start contributing only from

Srvanam the star, i was born. At their request i have written several posts in

these days and I have submitted a 12 part series on sravana viratha mahAthmiyam

at the feet of Sri Anbil Ramaswamy and Sri V Sadagopan for them to review it.

This was written as part of oppiliappan thala purANam which also has several

other parts to come.

 

Happy purattAsi srvana vratham (start this evening and goes until tomorrow

evening) to all who sincerely pray to Lord Oppiliappan and Lord

Venkatachalapathy.

 

Sri Booma dEvi thAyAr samEtha Sri Oppiliappan thiruvadikaLE charaNam

adiyEn

Kadagakudi Sampath Rengarajan

 

***************************my first post this month********************

On Oct 9, 1:05pm, Mani Varadarajan wrote:

> Re: Thirumangai Alwar and Thirujnanasambhanda Nayanar

>

> > I have a particular question regarding the meeting between Thirumangai

> > Alwar and Thirujnanasambhanda Nayanar at Seergazhi. I have read that the

> > Alvar defeated jnanasambhandar in debate and received the title

> > 'Nalukavi perumal' from him.

>

> This meeting, while mentioned in some traditional biographies,

> is recognized by most authorities as being anachronistic.

 

Historians by and large in Tamil Nadu agree that this inicident did take place

and they did live in the same era. There is absolutely no doubt about this and

a biograpgy on thirumanagai mannan provides much more details.

> The great Saiva saint tiru-jnAna-sambandhar postdates tirumangai

> AzhvAr by at least a century.

>

 

saint Thiru -jnAna-sambandhar and thirumangai lived during the same time. This

has been established again and again. Besides, they both respected each other

so much for their knowledge in Tamil and in fact they both longed to see each

other. This has been established by Tamil Historians again and again. In fact

this has been explicitelyt explained in their tamil works itself. ie Both

thirumangai and saint Thiru -jnAna-sambandhar expressed their eagerness to see

each other whom each other held in high esteem as a fellow Tamil poet.

I will try to post these works when i get some time later, may in this weekend.

 

I wouldnot even call this episode as a "vAtham". VAtham can be meant as

"Argument" directly in tamil. They never argued with each other and in contrary

held each other in high esteem. They had a debate as promoted by their

disciples. The debate was not on whether Saivam or Srivaishnavam was great. At

the request of saint Thiru -jnAna-sambandhar, thirmangai delivered the pAsurams

on Lord thAdALan at HIS sannithi and saint Thiru -jnAna-sambandhar accepted the

pulahAngitham and Tamil poetic skill of thiru mangai even after the very first

pAsruam in which he stacked numbers 1 to 10 in Tamil poetry and indirectly

cited them as the 10 avathArams of Lord Vishnu. After this saint Thiru

-jnAna-sambandhar presented his own holy spear (vEl) that he rever and keeps

with him as a reward and and as an acknowledgement of thirumagai's winning the

so called debate.

 

> Nonetheless, the story is an interesting one. Tirumangai had

> already been reputed as "nAlu kavi perumAL" (master of four-fold

> poetry) before he had a chance meeting with Sambandhar at

> Sirkazhi, where the latter was then at residence. The AzhvAr

> proposed a debate with the Sambandhar,

 

The debate was proposed by their disciples.

 

> but soon discovered

> that there was no temple to PerumaaL in that area. This being

> the case, he refused to enter the disputation in such a place.

 

Thirumangai was adorned with *enormous recognition* as a tamil poet and fame

after this debate *even among saivite circles* and was adjudged as the

extradinary Tamil poet of his time. THIS IS THE EPISODE THAT

BROUGHT THE ADDITIONAL FEATHERS to his crown. In fact among all the 1300 and

odd pasurams thirumangai calls himself with so many adaip peyar ie special

names given to him by many. But at the 10 th pAsuram on this lord (delivered

during the debate) he states all the 8 adaippeyars he has so far ie all in all

in one pAsruam and this can never be seen anywhere else inthe other 1300 and

odd pAsurams. it was said that the saint thiru -jnAna-sambandhar was

overwhlemed by these deliverance of thirumanagai and praised him so much.

>

> By chance, a Vaishnava woman passed by, and Tirumangai asked

> to borrow an image of Vishnu. She gladly lent him her Lord

> taaDalan (Krishna?).

 

 

ThAdALAn in Tamil means ThAL ALan or ALanthavan or ALanthu ALbavan

 

ThAL means feet.

ALAnthavan means who measured.

ALbavan means who still rules.

 

ie Lord thiru vikraman who measured all these worlds by HIS FEET and claimed

the ownership of them fro mking mahAbali and by virute of it who rule them to

day.

> Recharged, he then began his debate

> with Sambandhar. The latter composed a poem which Tirumangai

> criticized. Sambandhar asked Tirumangai to compose one in

> return, and the story goes that Tirumangai then composed the

> 10 verses in praise of kAzhic cI rAmar (Sri Rama at Sirkazhi). [*]

>

> [*] It may strike the reader as strange that the story

> declares that Tirumangai composed a poem to Rama at Sirkazhi

> when it was just stated that no Vishnu temple existed in

> that area.

 

 

In fact this kshEthram has been praised in brahmANda purANam. It is believed

that during thrEtha yugam this site was wahsed away. The woman stored the

ursavar alone in her husk (not dust) storage bin and worshipped HIM all the

time handed over it thirumangai. thirumangai installed the moolavar and ursavar

here. Since thirumangai saw only the ursavar first , this ursavar is praised

even today. Infact when i arrived in this temple i happened to see the ursavar

first and only the moolavar later. The arcahgAL explained to me that I am lucky

as this is the same routine that is considered very holy and followed as a

protocol by some ardent srivaishnavaL. The so much reverred ursavar is Sri

Ramar then. Currently there is west facing sannithi where this Sri Ramar ursavr

is situated inside the temple. There are many temples that have the ursavar and

moolavars differently in the 108 DD's and i donot see why this cannot have

different moorthis.

 

Another interesting observation is such that thirumangai sang on all avathArams

in first pAsuram itself and his reference to Rama is explicitely seen in few

pAsurams though. In fact one of these 10 pAsuram explicitely refers to the

thala purANam explained in brahmANda purANam as to how urOmasi muni sought the

blessings from Lord that when each one HIS hair is fallen one brahma's life is

over. ie when Lord Brahma had some ahangAram and argued with this muni this

muni replied that "your life is equal to life of my one urOmam or thread of the

hair" grown in his body and was so blessed. This is explained in the pAsuram

and as well as the thAdALan or Lord thiruviokraman pAsuram on this temple by

thirumangai.

 

 

> It is, however, very much in the style of the

> AzhvArs to not stick to singing of a particular manifestation

> of Vishnu at any particular shrine. For example, in tirukkaNNa-

> puram, reputed to be a temple to Krishna, kulasekhara AzhvAr

> praises the god there predominantly as Rama.

 

 

Thiruk kaNNa puram is also a similar story. It has been established by

historians that the ursavar of this temple was Sri Ramar, who is now

currently in Sri VAdivoor, known as the famous vaduvoor Ramar. thirumangai

himslef confirms this in his decade and the last of the 11 pasuram explaiaing

the whole dasAvathAram as the creation of Sri Rama of thiru kaNNa puram. In

fact when Sri Mani asked for references to Sri Parasuramar avathram in 4000, i

have not only presented this pasuram 2 years back but also mentioned that there

is one pasuram for each avatharam in this decade which is not present

anywhereelse in 4000, and this decade is equivalent to the dasavatha sthothram

of Swami deiskan. The last pAsuram on Sri Ramar ursavar of thiruk kaNNapuram by

thirumanagi says

 

munnum rAmanaay (as a parusraman who appeared prior to HIM in this chthuryuga)

thAnaay (as Sri Rama HIMself0

pinnum rAmanaay ( as a Sri Bala ramar who appeared after HIS Sri Rama avatharma

in this chthur yugam)

thAmodharanAAy (as moolavat Sri Krishna HIMself)

kalkiyum ( as kalki avathAramm)

 

.....

 

 

> Similarly,

> it would not be out of character for Tirumangai to praise his

> idol of Krishna also as Rama.

 

 

Thus it is stated that thirumangai praised the Sri Ramar vigraham as Sri Ramar

vigraham only in seerkAzhi thAdALan sannithi.

>

> The story continues that Sambandhar was delighted at hearing

> this, confessed that he was beaten, and declared that the AzhvAr

> fully deserved the title of nAlu kavi perumaaL. As a tribute,

> he presented Tirumangai with his spear (vEl), which is why

> Tirumangai is invariably depicted with this weapon in Vaishnava

> temples.

>

> Not a story to be taken very seriously, but still charming in

> its own way.

>

 

Since this is not a mere story, I humbly submit this at the feet of Sri Mani

and all the bAgawathALs and request them as azhwar bhakthALs to take this very

seriously as a true incident and plead that they must learn more from this

episode. Stay tuned for more on the actual debates and the relevant poems.

 

parakAla nAyaki thiruvadikaLE charaNam

adiyEn

kadagakudi Sampath Rengarajan

 

 

> Mani

>

>

>-- End of excerpt from Mani Varadarajan