Posting on Thenkalai-Vadakalai differences

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani,

 

Thank you for your prompt response and for taking time to locate an earlier

posting. I was told that the Pramanam for Vadagalais is the Vedas and for

the Tengalais is the Divya Prabandhams (Dravida vedam) but i find such a

simplistic division unacceptable because Azhwars were above such

distinctions and would have never agreed to, leave alone allow, anybody to

take their works exclusively for themselves.

 

Another reason i heard is that while vadagalai sampradayam requires an

intermediary in the form of acharya, tengalai advocate a direct approach

with Sriman Narayana. Which again is doubtful considering the postings of

the bhakti group that Acharyas are required irrespective of the subsects.

 

Another popular (but apocryphal) theme that floats around is that most of

the tengalais were converts from other non-brahmin sects and got initiated

by Sri Ramanuja. I have seen some vadagalai iyengars treating alliances

with Tengalais with disdain and would rather have an alliance with Vadamal

iyers! i shudder to imagine very learned and erudite scholars taking such

labels as Tengalai/Vadagalai and even going to courts (for the style of the

thirumaN).

 

The crux of all these above issues is this: IS there a fundamental

difference in approach between the two sub sects and if Yes, what is that?

I request the enlightened members of the group to post their opinions (or

send me a copy of earlier postings if they do not want to repeat themselves

in the forum).

 

Pranams

 

Badrinarayanan

>

V S Badrinarayanan Email: badri

Marketing Manager Ph :091-44-852-4154

Polaris Software Lab Ltd Fax:091-44-852-3280

713, Anna Salai, Chennai 600 006

INDIA

[Guest guest]

>Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:48:31

>Mohan Sagar <msagar

>Badrinarayanan V S <badri

>Re: Re: Posting on Thenkalai-Vadakalai differences

>

>Dear Sri Mohan,

>

>At the outset, my thanks and pranams to you for taking the effort and time

to send me a personal mail.

>

>Your caveat " For in actuality, we are all SriVaishnavas, humble sEshas to

Perumal and ThayAr, and dAsans to Sri Ramanuja. Consequently, we must

examine all sides of the tradition in the mood of humble disciples,

recognizing that every Acharyan or bhAgavatha, irrespective of kalai, is the

representative and example of Ramanuja Darshanam" succinctly answered more

than the question that i raised. how true indeed! All paths lead to

Bhagavan and while some might be different from others, they are all valid

and not inferior to the rest.

>

>i sincerely hope that this message is received in its proper spirit by all

regardless of their kalai or faith so that everyone feels that he/she is a

SriVaishnava first and last.

>

>I request your permission to submit this mail along with yours to the

Bhakti Group so that the discussions in future will be on the lines of how

to be a better SriVaishnava.

>

>Thanking you once again for your contribution and for providing clarity.

>

>adiYen Dasan

>

>

>Badrinarayanan VS

>

V S Badrinarayanan Email: badri

Marketing Manager Ph :091-44-852-4154

Polaris Software Lab Ltd Fax:091-44-852-3280

713, Anna Salai, Chennai 600 006

INDIA

[Guest guest]

>X-Sender: msagar

>V S Badrinarayanan <badri

>Mohan Sagar <msagar

>Re: Re: Posting on Thenkalai-Vadakalai differences

>Fri, 21 Nov 1997 05:00:37 +0000

>

>Dear Sri Badrinarayanan,

>

>This is in response to your question:

>

>>IS there a fundamental

>>difference in approach between the two sub sects and if Yes, what is that?

>

>Most books on the subject state that there are 18 fundamental differences

>between the two the branches of our religion. However, for me, the most

>interesting of these is one that has been the topic of some discussion and

>debate in this forum: the nature of prapatti.

>

>There is an excellent book by the noted professor of religious studies, Dr.

>Patricia Mumme, called The SriVaishnava Thelogical Dispute which goes into

>great detail on the differences in interpretation of prapatti, and some

>possible reasons for this. I would highly recommend this book if you want a

>more thorough understanding of the issue. But in a nutshell, the whole

>thing seems to revolve around how formal this "act" of prapatti is.

>

>The Vadakalai School regards prapatti to be a formal act in that it requires

>the devotee to wholeheartedly and formally surrender before the Lord, or

>submit him/herself to an Acharyan in order that he may perform this

>surrender on his behalf. The ritual that expresses this act of surrender is

>known as bAranYAsam, and is considered by the followers of this tradition to

>be the pretext, the sAdhyopayam, that the Lord uses to bless the devotee

>with mOksham. Indeed, the Vadakalais believe, the very desire for mOksham,

>or uninterrupted servitude to the Lord, is one of the important

>qualifications that one should have in performing this ritual. Along with

>this, as with any act, several qualifications on the part of the aspirant

>are required, which once again, are covered in much detail in a number of

>books. (Please note that there may some incorrect assumptions made on this,

>based on my limited readings on the Vadakalai view of prapatti)

>

>The Tenkalais do not regard prapatti to be an act, or even a pretext, but a

>spiritual and emotional transformational experience in which the devotee

>consciously recognizes and affirms SrimanNarayana to be the sole upAyam and

>upEyam. Such a transformation is not dependent upon any qualification and

>does not require the devotee to be seeking mOksham specifically. It is, as

>one author describes, the rejection of the idea that one is without a

>Protector, or that one can survive without Him. It most certainly requires

>the wise teachings of an Acharyan to understand completely, but since it is

>an individual experience, an Acharyan generally does not perform prapatti on

>behalf of an individual.

>

>It should be noted though that while prapatti is required in the sense that

>the Lord Himself prescribes it, it should not be regarded as the pretext for

>the Lord's Grace. According to the TenAcharyans, the Lord's Grace is

>spontaneous and causeless, and it alone can bring about one's salvation.

>Consequently, because the Lord is so kind, He finds even the slightest of

>inclinations towards Him, even ones that are unknown to the devotee, to be

>enough of a pretext for Him to work to bring the devotee to Him. So, the

>bhAgavatha's experience of prapatti is in reality the fruit of the Lord's

>own effort.

>

>Please note that the above is only just a sampling of the subtle levels of

>difference between how the two schools view prapatti. It really requires

>much more intense study, perhaps even a lifetime's worth, to even come close

>to experiencing what our pUrvachAryan's had experienced as prapatti.

>

>I must make one other caveat on this matter. The person who comes closest

>to being my Acharyan, Sri Tridandi SrimanNarayana Jeear, has recently

>written to me that while such subtle differences are very much a part of our

>religion and do define what it means to be Vadakalai or Tenkalai, they

>should not bias us towards being for one branch of Acharyans or bhAgavathas,

>and against the other. For in actuality, we are all SriVaishnavas, humble

>sEshas to Perumal and ThayAr, and dAsans to Sri Ramanuja. Consequently, we

>must examine all sides of the tradition in the mood of humble disciples,

>recognizing that every Acharyan or bhAgavatha, irrespective of kalai, is the

>representative and example of Ramanuja Darshanam.

>

>I have sent this to you by personal e-mail, as it is a summarized

>reiteration of a number of previous discussions in this forum.

>

>Please feel free to write to me if you require any clarifications on the above.

>

>adiyEn,

>

>Mohan

>

V S Badrinarayanan Email: badri

Marketing Manager Ph :091-44-852-4154

Polaris Software Lab Ltd Fax:091-44-852-3280

713, Anna Salai, Chennai 600 006

INDIA

[Guest guest]

> Badrinarayanan V S <badri

> Dear Sri Mani,

>

> Thank you for your prompt response and for taking time to locate an earlier

> posting. I was told that the Pramanam for Vadagalais is the Vedas and for

> the Tengalais is the Divya Prabandhams (Dravida vedam) but i find such a

> simplistic division unacceptable because .....

>

> The crux of all these above issues is this: IS there a fundamental

> difference in approach between the two sub sects and if Yes, what is that?

> I request the enlightened members of the group to post their opinions (or

> send me a copy of earlier postings if they do not want to repeat themselves

> in the forum).

 

There is partial truth in each of the differences you mentioned.

The key word is "partial". Because of that, there is absolutely

no reason for any one to claim racial purity or superiority.

The intermarriages have been common through out the 900 years

after Ramanuja. I know personally of cases 2/3 generations ago,

when the differences were most felt.

 

Long ago, it was probably just an "Achaarya" allegience difference.

 

Mani could perhaps cite a reference to the earliest reference

which "explicitly" acknowledges the two kalais. I do not believe

such a reference is very old.

 

Best wishes

 

K. Srinivasan