Instructions for the neophyte

[Guest guest]

Dear VaishNavas,

 

Mind has a tendency to speculate on its own; it does not seem to want to

just accept the authority of sadaacaaryas, bhaagavatas, zaastras and

the Supreme Bhagavaan.

 

Are there instructions from vaishNava aacaaryas to help the neophyte ?

 

Thanks,

 

-Ram

 

PS:- Please feel free to send me private email

[Guest guest]

dear sir,

 

in this connection, i draw attentrion of upadesa ratnamali of sri

manavala mamuni where he says like

 

"munnor mozhintha murai thappamal kettu....

 

 

there he says, follow those things that are told to you by the acharyas.

 

for those who say anything that there mind feels fit enough are those

who are moorkhas.(tham nenjil thondirinathe solli....)

 

regards

 

km narayanan

>

 

____

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[Guest guest]

Ram Gopalaswamy wrote:

> Dear VaishNavas,

>

> Mind has a tendency to speculate on its own; it does not seem to want to

> just accept the authority of sadaacaaryas, bhaagavatas, zaastras and

> the Supreme Bhagavaan.

 

But I ask in turn, is speculation in and of itself

an evil? By speculation, I do not mean daydreaming, but

informed speculation based on intelligence and

investigation. Is this so wrong?

 

Are not the inspired musings of Yajnavalkya or Tirumazhisai

Alvar themselves types of speculations?

 

All are requested to respond.

 

Mani

 

P.S. Please do not simply quote some text as an answer

to this question. That defeats the purpose of this

discussion!

[Guest guest]

> for those who say anything that there mind feels fit enough are those

> who are moorkhas.(tham nenjil thondirinathe solli....)

 

One of our other correspondents has replied in a similar vein.

While this may be true, I believe Ram in his original post is

asking a more psychological question. If I may rephrase it as

follows: "I know that I should believe in Bhagavan and the

shastras, and Bhagavan's messengers such as the acharyas. But

my mind continues to wander and speculate about all sorts of

things. What am I to do?"

 

You see, merely stating that the acharya's words are to be

followed begs the question.

 

How would one answer Ram?

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

namo bhagavate vaasudevaaya,

 

Dear vaishhNavas,

 

Thanks to shrii.Mani for rephrasing my original query to make it simpler to

understand. Also thanks to everyone who responded.

 

BTW, I happened on an interesting shloka in vedaanta-sutra (2.1.11):

 

"tarkApratishhThAnAdapi anyathAnumeyamiti chedevamapyavimokshaprasaN^gaH"

 

Would vaishhNavas please shed light on the shloka ?

 

 

-Ram-

[Guest guest]

At 11:13 PM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:>

>namo bhagavate vaasudevaaya,>

>Dear vaishhNavas,>

>BTW, I happened on an interesting shloka in vedaanta-sutra (2.1.11):>

>"tarkApratishhThAnAdapi anyathAnumeyamiti chedevamapyavimokshaprasaN^gaH">

>Would vaishhNavas please shed light on the shloka ?

 

-Ram-

 

Dear Sri Ram Gopalaswamy and Fellow students of Brahma sutrAs :

 

The above sutras you quoted are two adjoining ones :

 

2.1.11 tarkhAprathishtAnAdhapi

2.1.12 anyathAanumEyamithi chEth , yevamapyavimOkshaprasanga :

 

They belong to the dhvitheeya Paadham of Dhvitheeya adhyAyam

of Bramha SutrAs that have been heavily commented upon by

the BhaashyakArAs and elaborated by Swami Sri Desikan

in SarvArtha Siddhi .

 

The First One deals with the concept that

reasoning without the help of the scriptures is not

dependable in Brahma vichAram .Here , AchArya RaamAnujA

in his Sri Bhaashyam refers to the Saankhya system view

based on reasoning can not topple the VedAnthic view based

on the scriptures .

 

The SaankhyA system is elaborated in Kapila SutrAs

attributed to Sage Kapilaa . The commentary ( kaarikhA )

for those sutrAs were written by Isvara KrishNA ,

who lived around 250 AD . The SaankhyA system , originally

theistic , deals with prakrithi ( matter ) and "its evolutes" .

YogA system evolved out of it.

 

The soul(Jeevan ) is a passive witness of the happenings in

the matter in this system , particularly in the physical body ,

which is a product of matter that provides a home for the Jeevan.

Kapila darsanam argues that ignorance of the nature of matter

and of the Self (soul ) leads to worldly suffering .The true

understanding of the two leads to final release from bondage

in this system .It points out that a mere knowledge of

matter and self would release one from worldly sufferings .

 

AchArya RaamAnujA intreprets this Sutram and states that

the Lord Can not be proved by Inference .Swami Sri Desikan

in his PradhAna sathakam has commented in this context

about the three PramANams :Prathyaksham , anumAnam and

Saasthram and has pointed out that Saasthram ( Vedam )

is the most important among the three and then he went

on to point out that VedAntham (Upanishads ) is most

prominent among Saasthrams and Purusha Sooktham is

the most prominent among VedAntham .

 

The Second Suthram (2.1.12 ) , the suthrakAra

according to Sri RamAnujA points out that

arguments given by one system (saankhyA )

are capable of being defeated by another

( Bauddha here ) "intelligent " and

fallacious set of arguments that does not

take into account the scriptures (sruthis ).

He establishes the primacy of the scriptures

as authority and that the reasoning going against

them is NO PROOF of knowledge and such reasoning

can not be successful in contradicting

the scriptural texts .

 

The 14th sutram in this paadham is very important ,

where the suthrakAra points that Brahman with

the sentient ( Jeevans ) and the insentient(Prakruhti )

as its body does not experience pleasure or pain like

the individual jeevan .

 

AchArya RaamAnujA goes onto establish the great darsanam

of VisishtAdvaitham thru his Sri Bhaashyam with its

five central doctrines :

 

1. Brahman has attributes and is identical with Sriman

NaarAyaNA .

 

2 . World and souls are real .

 

3 .The relation between Brahman on the one hand and

the world of chethanams and achethanams on the other

is is that between body and soul .

 

4. Brahman is the ONLY ONE having the World as its

attribute leading up to the name of VisishtAdvaitham

to this darsanam .

 

5.Bhakthi and Prapatthi are the means of Moksham .

 

 

How can we discharge our debt of gratitude

to Sri Bhagavadh RaamAnujA ? The only way is

by studying Sri Bhaashyam and other 8 granthams

blessed by him and the great aruLiccheyalgaLs

of AzhwArs and other achAryAs .

 

The AchArya RaamAnujA CD ROM project is a modest

effort in that direction particularly aimed at the

younger generation and their parents .Hence , Please

join in and make it happen . Those in India can

contribute in Rupees directly to Professor Alwar

and those abroad can help with their currencies

and help us accomplish a kaimkaryam of the kind that

has hitherto not come into focus .

 

PLEASE PARTICIPATE TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY .

 

Thanks to you all ,

 

V.Sadagopan

[Guest guest]

shrii V. Sadagopan writes:

> 2.1.11 tarkhAprathishtAnAdhapi

> 2.1.12 anyathAanumEyamithi chEth , yevamapyavimOkshaprasanga :

>[...]

> The First One deals with the concept that reasoning without the help of

> the scriptures is not dependable in Brahma vichAram.

> [...]

> AchArya RaamAnujA intreprets this Sutram and states that

> the Lord Can not be proved by Inference .

> [...]

>

> AchArya RaamAnujA goes onto establish the great darsanam

> of VisishtAdvaitham thru his Sri Bhaashyam with its

> five central doctrines :

>

> 1. Brahman has attributes and is identical with Sriman

> NaarAyaNA .

>

> 2 . World and souls are real .

>

> 3 .The relation between Brahman on the one hand and

> the world of chethanams and achethanams on the other

> is is that between body and soul .

>

> 4. Brahman is the ONLY ONE having the World as its

> attribute leading up to the name of VisishtAdvaitham

> to this darsanam .

>

> 5.Bhakthi and Prapatthi are the means of Moksham .

>[...]

 

 

Thanks to shrii.Sadagopan svaamin for sharing raamaanujaacaarya's

shrii-bhaashhya on the suutras.

 

So the aspiring neophyte could instruct his wandering mind to not waste time

speculating and but to just accept and start practising (to the best of

his abilities?) shaastra as already explained by sadaacaryas like

shrii.raamaanuja, shrii.vedaanta-deshika and shrii.shrii.krshhNa-mahaa-deshika

Himself (ie. brahmanyo devakii putra) in His bhagavad-giita ?

 

-Ram-