Guest guest Posted August 16, 1998 Report Share Posted August 16, 1998 Sri : Srimate Sri Lakshmi Nrusimha Para Brahmane Namaha Srimate Sri Lakshmi - Nrusimha Divya PAdukA Sevaka - Srivan Shatagopa Sri NArAyana Yateendra MahAdesikAya Namaha Dearmost Sri VaishnavAs , Namo NArAyanA . kindly accept adiyen's pranAmams. ----------- -- cont--- Everyone knows that it is the same NArAyanA who has taken different forms as RanganAthar , SrInivAsar , PeraruLALan etc. But each archAvatAram is unique on its own . Though the ultimate reason for PerumAL to take various archAvatArams is to please His devotees , the leelAs employed by the PerumAL from various Divya Desams are different . It is similar to how eventhough KrishnA & RAmA are the same NArAyanA in different forms , their leelAs were different . So , the debate boils down to the discussion on these lines . NArAyanA cannot be limited to say 50 or 100 kalyAna gunAs. It is countless . Infinite are His ways also in which NArAyanA deals with His devotees . It is this variety of exhibition of His kalyAna gunAs to His devotees that makes even the dry samsAric life (ie. association with a material body) also to be as good as a life in Sri Vaikuntam . Infact the very reason for NArAyanA to take various avatArams is to make the jIvAtmAs get attracted in any one of His forms/leelAs etc. So, if a devotee strongly feels that PerumAL in one Divya Desam is the superior most in comparison with other Divya Desa perumALs , then NArAyanA is infact highly pleased , since the very reason for His archAvatAram in that particular form is to make His devotee have a strong personal relationship with respect to that form. Ofcourse , the answer to the debate is already known . Our AchAryAs have already clearly mentioned it . But the purpose of the debate is to experience the kalyAna gunAs of Sriman NArAyanA in a different way viz. friendly arguments & thereby bringing out the glories of different Divya Desams . ---------------------- Transgression of facts (during arguments concerning the superior perumAL ) , wherever it is made in the drAmA will be made evident in the form of a dialogue . So , one needn't be guessing whether the statements are either facts or not. The actual debate will start from the next posting . So this info is for the next posting basically . --------------- The great bhAgavathA Sage NArAdA goes to the kArya Vaikuntam (*) & offers mangaLAsAsanam to Sriman NArAyanA : NAradar : PallAndu pallAndu pallAyirathAndu pala koti NoorAyiram mallAnda thinthOL manivannA Un sevadi sevvi thiruk kAppu adiyomodum ninnodum pirivinri Ayiram pallAndu vadivAi nin valamArbinil vAzhginra mangaiyum pallAndu vadivAr sothi valaththurayum sudar Azhiyum pallAndu padai pOr pukku muzhangum ap pAnchajanniyamum pallAnde NArAyanA : Please come NAradA. I am highly pleased by your kind visit. NAradar : Oh my dear Lord ! adiyen is in this status by your mercy only . PallAndu to your infinite kalyAna gunAs . All Your bhAgavthAs faint while thinking about your Soulabhyam & Sowseelyam inspite of Yourself being the Para Brahman & Master of all . NArAyanA : Is there any special purpose for your visit ? NAradar : Eventhough You know whats going on in adiyen's mind , it is Your Wish to hear from adiyen itself . So, as a servant of Yours , adiyen will act as per Your desire . adiyen is not able to tolerate the aj~nAnam (ignorance) prevailing in the earth. kali yugA is very horrible . Earth is filled with so many athiests . Not only that they don't know about You , they also mislead so many other people . So called "Scientists" of the earth propagates non-sensical theories like Universe was born on its own with some big bang or something like that ; Life originated from matter etc . These people are glorified as the topmost intellectuals of the society & all the people blindly follow their dictations in all spheres of life. All the children are made to believe such things & brain washed from their childhood to develop athiestic attitudes . The limit to which the materialistic science can work or possibly yield fruitful results is not understood by the people . The most unfortunate part is that even the pure vedAs , IthihAsa purAnAs after getting into the hands of ignorant ones are heavily suffering . Many men in the name of modern philosophers , Indologists & researchers write hundreds of books on vedAntA , purAnAs etc with their own speculative ideas . They misinterpret them and causes much more confusions by forming their own individual philosophy derived out of vedAntA . Added to this confusion is the presence of many more philosophies that are not based on vedAs. IthihAsa purAnAs are branded as fictitious stories , mere employment of symbolism etc . All Your most merciful avatArams & leelAs are considered as some fairy tale for mere learning of some ordinary dharmA. Existance of demigods are not understood & are considered as some symbolic representations. The apaurusheyA vedAs are considered to be some speculative ideas written in the form of texts. You Yourself experienced how the asurAs & fools were ignorant about your supra mundane LeelAs during Your vibhava avatArams . In archAvatAram You are experiencing worser & worser apachArams. Many pseudo intellectuals think foolishly that ,since You are present everywhere (Divya Atmasvaroopam) , worshipping You specifically at Temples is mere sentimentalism. Many speculate that man created God & worship through Agama sAstrAs is some symbolism . Blood is oozing out of adiyen's eyes due to such blasphemies , O my Lord ! People hardly understand that as soon as the prathistA for the vigrahA is done , You make the sAnidhyam in it by mixing the suddha sattvam into the vigrahA & thereby making it Your divine body (divya mangaLa vigraham) & thus it is no more a mere stone or a wood or whatever it was before. Only Your dear devotees understand Your unlimited mercy in taking an archAvatAram by accepting whatever name & form they give and give them the oppurtunity to serve You with pure love , that being their svaroopam (nature). As long as the jIvAtmA is with material body , it has no scope of having the vision of You (DivyAtma svaroopam). It is only possible at Sri Vaikuntam. Thus , Your Divya MangaLa vigrahA (form) is the sole refuge for all the baddha jIvAtmAs. Also, only fortunate souls can have the sevai (vision/darSan) of Your Divya MangaLa vigrahA at Ksheera sAgarA, kArya vaikuntam , one's heart (hArdan) etc . Being not in the same timeperiod as that of Your Vibhava avatArams like NrusimhA , RAmA & KrishnA , Your sevai (darSan) at various Temples remains as the people's only refuge . Just reading the pramAnams here & there, boosts heavily the ego of many people & make them think that they are independent & not subservient to You ; while others due to ignorance foolishly equate You with all demigods like Lord BrahA, Lord ShivA & others . They don't understand that You being completelty free of all karmA eternally , the divya mangaLa vigrahA You posses in archAvatArams are of the combination of the suddha sattvA in matter and not like the vigrahAs of other demigods which doesn't have any connection with Suddha sattvA due to the connection of karmA with all jIvAtmAs that are given the post of some demigod . Parama BhAgavathOthamAs involved in the propagation of the Prapatti mArgA & the glorious Rahasya Traya mantrAs are being neglected & even rediculed as sentimentalists etc by many ignorant men. Thinking of all Your most merciful avatArams drive all Your devotees mad & how can adiyen forget the devotional outpourings of Your most beloved AzhvArs ? Hardly anyone understands the most important sarIra - sarIrI bhAvA which exists between jIvAtmA & You , as well as between achit & Yourself . Many think that by merely reading 5 or 10 books on vedAntA will make him a master of it & can know about all the tattvA , hitA & purushArthA easily , while actually being ignorant of the fact that it is actually You out of Your mercy rewards them according to their sincerity & qualification . The unfortunate part is that , most of the writers of such books are themselves in confused state who think that whatever they feel is the tattvA . Even the most precious gems amongst granthAs from Your sampradAyam , fiercefully preached by Bhagavad RAmAnujA, is read like a novel by many ,due to which they are also in confused state , since how will You benedict them the divine knowledge , when there is no expression of humility & submissiveness towards the SadAchAryA ,atleast as a token of respect for their unlimited mercy in blessing them through their granthAs , while actually no act of theirs can be thought of as a repay of their debts to their AchAryAs . Hardly one realizes the importance of a SadAchAryA & the SatsampradAyam . Your own Bhagavad sAstrA (pAncarAtrA) is unfortunately rejected by many because of their ignorance. Hardly one follows the Do's & Dont's of sAstrAs which are Your divine commands . Not only that many are indulging simply in materialistic things , they also committ excessive apachArams unto You & Your devotees . As soon as SisupAlan started deriding You , all the Rishis evacuated the place since their tapas will completely be destroyed by hearing such blasphemy . But now everywhere in the world , these type of blasphemies in various ways are present in various degrees . What can Your devotees do ? Many have already piled lots of sins & involve themselves in bhagavad apachArams. adiyen is not able to digest the amount of suffering they are undergoing now & will be undergoing in the future . Being unbiased as a IswarA , You are equal to all & reward according to their desires & karmA , thus not interfering with their free will. But Oh my Lord , please transfer all their sins unto adiyen & let adiyen suffer in various hells for thousands of years , while they all after realizing their svaroopA(nature) as Your eternal servant & thereby performing prapatti will be in bliss by performing kainkaryam unto You at Sri Vaikuntam . It is very rare to see those ParamaikAntins who being burdenless ,after their bhara samarpanam unto You, are engaging themselves in Bhagavad & BhAgavatha kainkaryam alone, with least botherations about the materialistic world. NArAyanA : Oh My dear NAradA ! I understand Your deep concern for the welfare of all the baddha jIvAtmAs . It is My sankalpam to not force any jIvAtmA & make them act contradictory to their wishes . As you know , I go by their acts (karmA) & reward accordingly . I give refuge to those who perform prapatti unto Me . The only way to turn their attention unto Me is the glorification of My kalyAna gunAs in various ways while particularly referring to My archAvatAra leelAs . If one listens to My avatAra LeelAs from a parama bhAgavathA he will atonce be purified . Such paramaikAntins are there near Thiru alli kEni divya desam , while actually performing kainkaryam unto Me present as Satya NArAyanan at West MAmbalam . NAradar : NArAyana ... NArAyana . adiyen understood Your thiru ULLam. Its adiyen's bhAgyam to be Your instrument in starting a LeelA of Yours . adiyen is atonce going there . NArAyana .....NArAyana . -- to be cont -- --- (*) kArya vaikuntam : Replica of Sri Vaikuntam (parama padam) within the materialistic world wherein great rishis , sages etc get the bhAgyam of performing mangaLAsAsanam to Sriman NArAyanA . All the incidents narrated in the purAnAs like Curse to JayA & VijayA, Visit of Bhrugu Maharishi & hitting Lord's chest etc took place in this kArya vaikuntam & not in the Sri Vaikuntam to which only jIvAtmAs released from bondage of samsArA can enter . In other words , those having materialistic bodies ( ie. those who are having association with karmA ) cannot enter Sri Vaikuntam . Sri Vaikuntam doesn't have anything associated with matter . All are made up of suddha sattvA out there . There is no more association with karmA (ie. taking up of materialistic bodies) for those who have attained moksham (ie. those who have entered Sri Vaikuntam) .Information on the life at Sri Vaikuntam is very difficult to explain since one can understand it only after reaching there . It is similar to how one can tell that Mango is very tasty & give some analogies for explaining it; but , the real taste can be understood only after practically eating it . Ofcourse Kaushiytaki upanishad , ThiruvAimozhi , Vaikunta Gadyam , Sri Vaikunta sthavam & other similar pramAnams explain the needful for us . ParamaikAntins can have the understanding of the bliss one will be having at Sri Vaikuntam. Namo NArAyanA Adiyen Anantha PadmanAbha dAsan Sarvam Sri KrishnArpanamastu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 1998 Report Share Posted August 18, 1998 shrii Anantha PadmanAbha dAsan writes: > [...] > NArAyanA : Is there any special purpose for your visit ? > > NAradar : Eventhough You know whats going on in adiyen's mind , it is > Your Wish to hear from adiyen itself . So, as a servant of > Yours , adiyen will act as per Your desire . > > adiyen is not able to tolerate the aj~nAnam (ignorance) > prevailing in the earth. kali yugA is very horrible . ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > [...] shriimad bhaagataM (12.2.1-16 & 12.3.24-44) contains descriptions of the Kali age. - Ram The following translation is by disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedaanta Svaami Prabhupaada. BEGIN_QUOTE "Sukadeva Goswami said: Then, O King, religion, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy, duration of life, physical strength and memory will all diminish day by day because of the powerful influence of the age of Kali. In Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered a sign of a man's good birth, proper behavior and fine qualities. And law and justice will be applied only on the basis of one's power. Men and women will live together merely because of superficial attraction, and success in business will depend on deceit. Womanliness and manliness will be judged according to one's expertise in sex, and a man will be known as a brahmana just by his wearing a thread. A person's spiritual position will be ascertained merely according to external symbols, and on the same basis people will change from one spiritual order to the next. A person's propiety will be seriously questioned if he does not earn a good living. And one who is very clever at juggling words will be considered a learned scholar. A person will be judged unholy if he does not have money, and hypocrisy will be accepted as virtue. Marriage will be arranged simply by verbal agreement, and a person will think he is fit to appear in public if he has merely taken a bath. A sacred place will be taken to consist of no more than a reservoir of water located at a distance, and beauty will be thought to depend on one's hairstyle. Filling the belly will become the goal of life, and one who is audacious will be accepted as truthful. He who can maintain a family will be regarded as an expert man, and the principles of religion will be observed only for the sake of reputation. As the earth becomes crowded with a corrupt population, whoever among any of the social classes shows himself to be the strongest will gain political power. Losing their wives and properties to such avaricious and merciless rulers, who will behave no better than ordinary theives, the citizens will flee to the mountains and forests. Harassed by famine and excessive taxes, people will resort to eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. Struck by drought, they will become completely ruined. The citizens will suffer greatly from cold, wind, heat, rain and snow. They will be further tormented by quarrels, hunger, thirst, disease and severe anxiety. The maximum duration of life for human beings in Kali-yuga will become fifty years. By the time the age of Kali ends, the bodies of all creatures will be greatly reduced in size, and the religious principles of followers of varnasrama will be ruined. The path of the Vedas will be completely forgotten in human society, and so-called religion will be mostly atheistic. The kings will mostly be theives, the occupations of men will be stealing, lying and needless violence, and all the social classes will be reduced to the lowest level of sudras. Cows will be like goats, spiritual hermitages will be no different from mundane houses, and family ties will extend no further than the immediate bonds of marriage. Most plants and herbs will be tiny, and all trees will appear like dwarf shaami trees. Clouds will be full of lightning, homes will be devoid of piety, and all human beings will have become like asses. At that time, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear on the earth. Acting with the power of pure spiritual goodness, He will rescue eternal religion." - shriimad bhaagavataM 12.2.1-16 ###### "In the age of Kali only one fourth of the religious principles remains. That last remnant will continuously be decreased by the ever-increasing principles of irreligion and will finally be destroyed. In the age of Kali people tend to be greedy, ill-behaved and merciless, and they fight one another without good reason. Unfortunate and obsessed with material desires, the people of Kali-yuga are almost all sudras and barbarians. When there is a predominance of cheating, lying, sloth, sleepiness, violence, depression, lamentation, bewilderment, fear and poverty, that age is Kali, the age of the mode of ignorance. Because of the bad qualities of the age of Kali, human beings will become shortsighted, unfortunate, gluttonous, lustful and poverty-stricken. The women, becoming unchaste, will freely wander from one man to the next. Cities will be dominated by theives, the Vedas will be contaminated by speculative interpretations of atheists, political leaders will virtually consume the citizens, and the so-called priests and intellectualls will be devotees of their bellies and genitals. The brahmacaris will fail to execute their vows and become generally unclean, the householders will become beggars, the varnaprasthas will live in the villages, and the sannyasis will become greedy for wealth. Women become much smaller in size, and they will eat too much, have more children than they can properly take care of, and lose all shyness. They will speak harshly and will exhibit qualities of theivery, deceit and unrestrained audacity. Businessmen will engage in petty commerce and earn their money by cheating. Even when there is no emergency, people will consider any degraded occupation quite acceptable. Servants will abandon a master who has lost his wealth, even if that master is a saintly person of exemplary character. Masters will abandon an incapacitated servant, even if that servant has been in the family for generations. Cows will be abandoned or killed when they stop giving milk. In Kali-yuga men will be wretched and controlled by women. They will reject their fathers, brothers, other relatives and friends and will instead associate with the sisters and brothers of their wives. Thus their conception of friendship will be based exclusively on sexual ties. Uncultured men will accept charity on behalf of the Lord and will earn their livelihood by making a show of austerity and wearing a mendicant's dress. Those who know nothing about religion will mount a high seat and presume to speak on religious principles. In the age of Kali, people's minds will always be agitated. They will become emanciated by famine and taxation, my dear King, and will always be disturbed by fear of drought. They will lack adequate clothing, food and drink, will be unable to properly rest, have sex or bathe themselves, and will have no ornaments to decorate their bodies. In fact, the people of Kali-yuga will gradually come to appear like ghostly, haunted creatures. In Kali-yuga men will develop hatred for each other even over a few coins. Giving up friendly relations, they will be ready to lose their own lives and kill even their own relatives. Men will no longer protect their elderly parents, their children or their respectable wives. Thoroughly degraded, they will care only to satisfy their own bellies and genitals. O King, in the age of Kali people's intelligence will be diverted by atheism, and they will almost never offer sacrifice to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the supreme spiritual master of the universe. Although the great personalities who control the three worlds all bow down to the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, the petty and miserable human beings of this age will not do so. Terrified, about to die, a man collapses on his bed. Although his voice is faltering and he is hardly conscious of what he is saying, if he utters the holy name of the Supreme Lord he can be freed from the reaction of his fruitive work and achieve the supreme destination. But still people in the age of Kali will not worship the Supreme Lord." - shriimad bhaagavataM 12.3.24-44 END_QUOTE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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