Prakruti Body ?

[Guest guest]

A member of Bhakthi group had asked me to

comment on a central doctrine of

Sri VisishtAdvaitham .There were two Questions .

I thought some of you might be intersted

in these information points .

 

V.Sadagopan

>Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:52:59

>Sadagopan <sgopan

>Re: Prakruti Body ?

>

:

>

Response to Question 1 by a BhakthA :(AdiyEn)

>

>This doctrine of the Universe being

>the body of the Brahamn is central to

>VisishtAdvaitham . Universe consists of

>Chith ( Jeevans ) and Achith ( insentient

>prakruthi). When ChaandhOgya Upanishad

>declares : Sarvam kalvidham Brahman ( all

>this Brahman) , it is related to the earlier

>sruthi vAkhyam (Rg Vedam , the oldest Vedam ),

>in Purusha Sooktham : purusha yEvatham SARVAM ..

>

>Dr.Chari quotes VishNu purANam in support of

>the same view :jyothImshi VishNur , BhuvanAni VishNur ,

>VanAni VishNur girayo disAsccha ; nadhya: samudrasccha

>SA YEVA SARVAM .

>

>Our theology accepts that the entire universe

>is pervaded by VishNu ( Sarvam VishNu mayam

>Jagadhth) .The Universe ( Chethanams and Achethanams )

>is as real and eternal as Brahman ( Isvaraa) and that

>Universe is the SarIrA (Body) of BhagavAn,

>Sriman NaarayaNan .Therefore , the statement

>that this Universe is VishNu mayam recognizes

>Him as a VyApaka Brahmam , Sriman NaaraayaNaa ,

>who pervades the entire Universe , which becomes

>His body or SarIram .

>

Response to Question 2 (By AdiyEn):

 

BhagavAn's Body as Suddha sathvam and

>therefore how can it be part of Universe , which is

>not Suddha Sathvam ?

>

>Suddha sathvam is the most important concept

>for VisishtAdvaithins and is a complex one

>to understand. This concept is rather difficult

>to explain in a brief note . I wonder whether you

>have a copy of Dr.S.M.SrinivAsAchAri's book on

>VaishNavism. He explains beautifully the

>interelated concepts of Universe being the Body

>of Brahman and the Lord of Parama Padham

>having Suddha Sathvam body and yet having

>the Jata Prakruthi as His body undergoing

>changes due to admixtures of the thriguNams

>because of His sankalpam or IcchA .

>

>That sankalpam or IcchA is of two kinds:

>Nithya Sankalpam , the will to make some entities of

>His body etrnal ( like the Jivans) and

>the anithya Sankalpam , which

>permits the creation of certain things endure for

>limited periods .This is applicable to Vibhava

>mUrthys , who have existence until their

>avathAra Kaimkaryam is completed and then

>they return to the para VasudEvA form made

>up of Suddha Satthvam .The Vibhava mUrthys

>are made up of Suddha Sattvam .

>

>Same is true for Nithya SUris like Jaya and Vijaya ,

>who have taken a descent due to Para Vaasudevan's

>sankalpam .The Universe existing in avyakthA form inside

>the Lord during PraLayam is made manifest ( Vyaktham )

>by BhagavAn's Sankalpam and gets name and form

>after creation .They return to Him at the time of

>PraLayam as a part of His body .The Nithya Vibhuthi

>does not undergo any change like Prakruthi and

>stays without VikAram ( change).AprAkrutha in

>this context refers to non-material (spiritual)

>made up of Pure Or Suddha Sattvam .PrAkruthi

>objects are made up of five elements (pancha BhUthA )

>in His leela Vibuthi or His stage for play .

>

>Our Lord in Sri Vaikuntam is therefore saluted as

>Ubhaya VibhUthi Naathan ( the master of both kinds

>of Isvaryam : mundane and supra-mundane worlds ).

>A consecrated metallic Vigraham worshipped in

>the Divya Desams becomes under this context

>an AprAkrutha Vigraham , a suddha sattvA

>entity appropriate for Worship by us .

>

>In describing the important concept of

>Suddha Satthvam , One is touching upon the central

>doctrine of VisishtAdvaitham , which forms the basis

>of the philosophical and theological infrastructure.

>

>Additional elaborations on Suddha satthvam Concept

>***************************************************

>We refer often to three GunAs ( SatthvA ,

>Rajas and Tamas ). That Sattva has nothing

>to do with Suddha satthvam associated intimately

>with BhagavAn and His Nithya VibhUthi , Sri Vaikuntam .

>The Physical Universe and the material substance ( Jata

>Prakruthi)associated with it is known as LeelA VibhUthi

>( divine wealth for the Lord's leelAs ).

>

>The trascendental spiritual Universe existing

>outside the above definition is called Nithya

>VibUthi full of Suddha Sattvam without

>admixture of the three guNAs . Prakruthi is

>made up of the different proportuions of

>the three guNAs .The existence of Nithya

>VibUthi has many Sruthi PraMANams . This

>nihtya vibhUthi constituted by Suddha Satthvam

>is self-luminous (Svayam JyOthi) as opposed

>to Prakruthi .Isvara and Jivan are self luminous

>in contrast to Prakruthi .

>

>Hope this helps some what .I will not be surprised

>if additional questions arise due to the complexity of

>the concepts covered in many works of our AchAryAs .

>I strongly recommend the acquisition of the book

>by Dr.Chari for a clearer understanding of these

>difficult concepts , if you are interested in the

>deeper metaphysical concepts.For the enjoyment of

>ParamaathmA , we do not need to worry about these

>subtle and difficult concepts.

>

>V.Sadagopan

>At 08:27 AM 8/26/98 PDT, you wrote:

>>

>>>Dear Sriman V.Sadagopan

>>

>>>In the KumKum artilce , you write Our body is formed

>>>of Prakrithi , which forms also the body of the Lord in

>>>Sri VisishtAdvaitha SiddhAntham .>How is this so ?

>>> I thought the Lord is body is formed of

>>Suddha Sathva only.

>>

>>Please clarify.

>>

[Guest guest]

Sri Sadagopan wrote:

> A member of Bhakthi group had asked me to

> comment on a central doctrine of

> Sri VisishtAdvaitham.

> Response to Question 2 (By AdiyEn):

>

> Question: BhagavAn's Body as Suddha sathvam and

> therefore how can it be part of Universe , which is

> not Suddha Sathvam ?

 

If I may offer a few thoughts here, there is a difference

in the "bodies" BhagavAn has. When the Upanishads say

that the entire universe including all matter and each

and every living being is the body of Brahman, they mean

that the universe is pervaded, controlled, and supported

by Brahman. Brahman exists as the innermost self of

everything. Just as our body would be lifeless if our

self left it, the universe would cease to exist in any

meaningful way if Brahman were not its innermost

controlling self.

 

This is how the universe is Brahman's SarIra or body.

 

Secondly, for the delight of his manifold devotees who

meditate on him, Brahman manifests a supremely auspicious,

unimaginably beautiful, exhilarating supernal form. This

form, known as the "divya-mangaLa-vigraha" in Sanskrit or

"tirumEni" in Tamil, is also a "body" of Brahman, because

it is a true manifestation of him. These manifested forms

of Brahman are five-fold [*]:

 

(a) para-rUpa -- the form taken to delight the

liberated souls in SrI vaikuNTha

(b) vyUha -- a four-fold form taken for the purpose

of cosmic creation, and for the purposes of

progressive meditation by the upAsaka

© vibhava -- the descents such as Narasimha, Rama,

Krishna, taken to delight devotees in samsAra

and to reestablish dharma

(d) arca -- the form taken at the devotee's desire

for personal and immediate worship in an icon or

picture

(e) antaryAmi or hArda -- the form taken within the

human being's heart for yogic meditation and

assurance that the Lord's personal presence is

always there

 

These five forms are not material manifestations, even

though they may appear to be so. They are made of what

is known as Suddha-sattva, or "pure goodness" -- akin

to knowledge itself. The concept of Suddha-sattva has

been set forth to show that these five-fold forms

of BhagavAn are entirely different in nature from our

bodies.

 

The difference between these two types of "bodies" should

now be clear. The first represents the philosophical

reality that Brahman is the universal producer, sustainer,

and retractor. The second represents manifestations

taken for the delight of the bhaktas. The two types of

bodies of Brahman are very different.

 

Therefore, there should be no confusion about the composition

of the universe. The universe is made of prakRti, the

Vedic term for matter, which is entirely different from

Suddha-sattva.

 

adiyEn,

Mani

 

 

[*] There are many verses in the Vedas and supporting SAstras

which discuss this five-fold manifestation. The clearest

one is the first verse of the mahAnArAyaNa upanishad:

 

ambhas-yapAre bhvanasya madhye nAkasya pRshTam mahato mahIyAn |

sukreNa jyotI:mshI samanupravishTaH prajApatiS carati garbhe antaH ||

 

para rUpa:

mahato mahIyAn -- higher than the highest

nAkasya pRshTe -- spans the highest heaven (SrI vaikuNTha-loka)

vyUha

(one manifestation of which is kshIrAbhdi or the milk ocean):

ambhas-yapAre -- on the great ocean

vibhava:

bhuvanasya madhye -- on this very earth

arca:

SukrENa jyotI:mshi -- luminous images

antaryAmi:

carati garbhe antaH -- he moves in the inner

recesses of creatures

 

The vyUha forms are generally unfamiliar to us. They are

described in detail in the Mahabharata and in the Pancaratra

Agamas.

[Guest guest]

Sri :

Srimate Sri Lakshmi Nrusimha Para Brahmane Namaha

Srimate Sri Lakshmi - Nrusimha Divya PAdukA Sevaka -

Srivan Shatagopa Sri NArAyana Yateendra MahAdesikAya Namaha

 

Dear devotees,

Namo NArAyanA . kindly accept adiyen's pranAmams.

> Sri Sadagopan wrote:

> > Question: BhagavAn's Body as Suddha sathvam and

> > therefore how can it be part of Universe , which is

> > not Suddha Sathvam ?

 

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Mani Varadarajan wrote:

>

> If I may offer a few thoughts here, there is a difference

> in the "bodies" BhagavAn has. When the Upanishads say

> that the entire universe including all matter and each

> and every living being is the body of Brahman, they mean

> that the universe is pervaded, controlled, and supported

> by Brahman. Brahman exists as the innermost self of

> everything. Just as our body would be lifeless if our

> self left it, the universe would cease to exist in any

> meaningful way if Brahman were not its innermost

> controlling self.

>

> This is how the universe is Brahman's SarIra or body.

> ---- cut ---

> The difference between these two types of "bodies" should

> now be clear. The first represents the philosophical

> reality that Brahman is the universal producer, sustainer,

> and retractor. The second represents manifestations

> taken for the delight of the bhaktas. The two types of

> bodies of Brahman are very different.

 

adiyen would like to add more to this discussion.

 

Qtn : What is sarIrA (ie.body) ? Who is sarIrI ? What is the

SarIra sarIrI relationship ?

If one says , "sarIrA"(body) implies something which has two

eyes, two ears , two legs etc , then there are many animal &

insect bodies which doesn't fit into the definition .

Upanishad says "yasya pruthvi sarIram" ie. "World is sarIrA

of Brahman ". The question is what does this "sarIrA" mean ?

There must be one definition of "sarIrA" which applies

universally . What is that definition ?

 

Ans : There are three conditions that needs to be satisfied for

an entity to be a sarIrA (body) of another entity which

becomes the corresponding sarIrI.

 

< following is from the view point of sarIrA>

 

a. AdheyatvA (ie.being supported by a sarIrI) : Existance of

the sarIrA(body) is due to the sarIrI ie. sarIrI supports

the sarIrA. In other words , if sarIrI ceases to exist ,

sarIrA also ceases to exist.

 

b. niyamyatvA (ie. being controlled by a sarIrI ) : Not only

that sarIrA derives its existance from a sarIrI, it is also

being controlled by the sarIrI. So , sarIrA acts as per the

will/desires of sarIrI.

 

c. seshatvA (ie. existing for the pleasure of sarIrI ) : Not only

that sarIrA is supported & controlled by sarIrI , it exists

only for the pleasure of sarIrI ie. sarIrI is sarIrA's Master.

 

From the point of view of sarIrI , it supports , controls &

acts as the master of sarIrA.

 

Thus , "sarIra - sarIrI bhAvA" is a _relationship_ (bhAvA)

that fulfills the above 3 conditions. Moreover , sarIrI is

always a chEtanA , while sarIrA can be either a chit or

achit.

 

Bhagavad rAmAnujA's exposition is elaborated by Sri Sudarsana

sUrI in this way .

 

It is to be noted that the "sarIrI" needn't be physically

present inside a "sarIrA". This is not a condition to be met

out for the sarIra-sarIrI bhAvA.

 

example 1 : jIvAtmA is sarIrI & the material body housing it is its

sarIrA . All the 3 conditions are fulfilled .

Additionally , jIvAtmA(sarIrI) also resides inside

the material body (sarIrA) .

 

example 2 : Sriman nArAyaNA is sarIrI & prakruti is His sarIrA

("yasya pruthvi sarIram ") . All the three conditions

are met out. Additionally , Sriman nArAyaNA also resides

inside prakruti ie. divyAtma swaroopam of nArAyaNA

pervades everything that is material.Hundreds of

pramAnams are there for this .

 

One may have a doubt as to how come then nArAyaNA is

not affected by the changes in the prakruti , if He is

physically inside it (as a jIvAtmA, its dharmabhoota

jn~Anam is affected by prakruti viz.animal body,plant

body,human body,old aged body, youthful body etc ,

eventhough its swaroopa jn~Anam is unchanged.similarly

,won't the dharmabhoota jn~Anam of nArAyaNA be affected?)

 

Ofcourse one knows that prakruti can't affect nArAyaNA

because He is the Supreme God."prakruti" acts as

"prakruti" only because of His sankalpam. "Fire" acts as

"fire" as we know , because of nArAyaNA's sankalpam .

When PrahalAd was pushed into "fire" nArAyaNA changed

His sankalpam to make the "fire" behave oppossite to its

nature, which was set by His sankalpam previously. So,

prakruti can't affect nArAyaNA .

 

The following analogy is usually told to drive the point

in. After a person eats some halwA which had excessive

ghee in it , he uses some powder/solution to remove the

ghee sticking to his hands. But , the ghee also had

contact with his tongue which he never botherd to clean

with the powder/solution since ghee didn't stick to it.

Similarly , though nArAyaNA is present everywhere , the

changes in prakruti doesn't affect Him.

 

example 3 : nArAyaNA is sarIrI & His suddha sattvam body is His

sarIrA . All the three conditions are met out. Also ,

nArAyaNA is present inside the "divya mangaLa vigraha".

"Suddha Sattvam" as a material is made up of "jn~Anam"

similar to how a jIvAtmA is. But , "Suddha sattvam"

doesn't possess the "dharmabhoota jn~Anam" & thus can't

percieve anything outside. Thus , it doesn't belong to

the category of "chEtanA" because a "chEtanA" is an

entity which can "know"/"percieve" ie. a chEtanA must

necessarily have "dharma bhoota jn~Anam" .

 

example 4 : Sriman nArAyaNA is sarIrI & jIvAtmA is His sarIrA

(upanishad : "yasya Atma sarIram" ). All the three

conditions are met out. But , swAmi Desikan explains

that nArAyaNA is physically not inside a jIvAtmA ,

though the sarIra-sarIrI bhAvA exists between them.

 

In virOdha parihAram (*) swAmi Desikan asks the

following question & answers it by himself :

 

Qtn : A jIvAtmA is aNu (atomic) in nature to the extent that there

is nothing which is smaller than that.There is nothing like

"inside a jIvAtmA" since by nature it is aNu. Similarly , kAlA

(ie.time) is vibhu (all pervading). So, there is nothing like

"outside the kAlA" since by nature it is all pervading. When

these are the facts , How can the Lord be said to be present

inside & outside of everything ? How can He be told to be

inside a jIvAtmA & outside the kAlA ?

 

Ans : Scriptural statements which say that Lord exists in & out of

everything simply means that He is present everywhere alongwith

all the entities.This is the purport of such statements. They

doesn't mean that Lord is literally in & out of everything.

 

adiyen's comments : Wherever either "in" or "out" of some entity exists ,

Lord is there. Whenever either "in" or "out" of some entity can't

be defined (ie.non existant) the question of Lord's presence

out there doesn't arise at all. This will clarify the meanings of

"antarvyApti" & "bahirvyApti".

 

nArAyaNA is the "antaryAmI" of jIvAtmA means that He controlls

it as if someone inside it will control it.He needn't be

physically inside an entity for Him to function as "antaryAmI" .

 

Namo NArAyanA

Adiyen

Anantha PadmanAbha dAsan

 

P.S.:

(*) "VirOdha parihAram" by the most merciful SwAmi Desikan

answers 108 anticipated brilliant questions/doubts

that might arise in a mumukshu. Its an excellent

rahasyA treatise & even the answer to a single question

in that set of 108 is a testimony to swAmi Desikan's

exaltedness & unparalleled mastery over all sAstrAs.

Sriman Sadagopan is covering this most precious

rahasyA in the SaranAgati journal , for the benifit

of all mumukshUs .

 

 

(*) Sri Mani : kAlA is also vibhU similar to how nArAyaNA

is . Just because something is vibhU ,

doesn't neccassarily make it the Ultimate

Supreme entity. Hope that you get what adiyen

is up to.

 

Sarvam Sri KrishnArpanamastu