Guest guest Posted September 28, 1998 Report Share Posted September 28, 1998 Dear Sri Vaishnavas, Sri Mani wrote >> Even if one of the requirements gets unfulfilled , Prapatti is not >> complete & moksham won't be granted by Sriman nArAyaNA. >If, out of ignorance or unintentional error, someone falls short >of the ideal, is it not the greatness of the Lord that he still >accepts the devotee? Perfect prapatti a la Nammalvar is a very >difficult state to reach I understood Sri Anand to mean perfection to one's best of abilities. This is similar to saying "Only if you aim for 100% you will atleast get 70". To start with if we say since we are nitya bhadas and any way we are bound to make mistakes, we will continue to make mistakes taking the whole thing too leniently. I think such an approach smacks of insincerity. Despite our best efforts there will be mistakes and that will be accepted/forgiven by the Lord. Ignorance/Unintentional error etc is not and never an excuse.I suppose the ignorance arises out of past karma.Burn out the karma and there cannot be ignorance. >I think our AcAryas' tiruvuLLam >was that we should try our best to be perfect prapannas, True. >but our >very imperfection is the cause for our prapatti and consequently >for His acceptance of us. If this was completely true then prapatti should be the only way for moksham. But that is not the case. There are definitely other methods/ways though difficult they still exist. adiyEn, Sriram,Balaraman ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1998 Report Share Posted October 12, 1998 Sri Balaraman Sriram wrote: > Sri Mani wrote: > >If, out of ignorance or unintentional error, someone falls short > >of the ideal, is it not the greatness of the Lord that he still > >accepts the devotee? Perfect prapatti a la Nammalvar is a very > >difficult state to reach > > I understood Sri Anand to mean perfection to one's best of abilities. > This is similar to saying "Only if you aim for 100% you will atleast get > 70". To start with if we say since we are nitya bhadas and any way we > are bound to make mistakes, we will continue to make > mistakes taking the whole thing too leniently. I think such an approach > smacks of insincerity. On the contrary, I don't think it smacks of insincerity, but of true humility. To realize that no matter how hard we try we will still fall short of the mark is a realization of our essential nature in worldly existence as imperfect beings, as completely dependent on PerumaaL for everything (pAratantryam). It further signifies that all our efforts, no matter how great from our perspective, are completely irrelevant without PerumaaL's kataaksham. To this effect, we have Sri Vedanta Desika's sloka on aTTabuyakarattAn: tvayi pravRtte mama kim prayAsaiH tvayyapravRtte mama kim prayAsaiH If You act, of what good are my efforts? And if You do not act, of what good are my efforts? To admit one's imperfection _may_ lead to taking things "too easily", or being lax about one's service to PerumaaL; But the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. Or is humility (a la Swami Desika) always a sign of insincerity? > Despite our best efforts there will be mistakes and that will be > accepted/forgiven by the Lord. Ignorance/Unintentional error etc is not > and never an excuse.I suppose the ignorance arises out of > past karma.Burn out the karma and there cannot be ignorance. Prapatti is itself a prAyaScittam for all past karma. The Lord, the ever-existent fount of grace, is overjoyed at the jIvA's decision to accept Him as the means and completely wipes the slate clean [*]. If prapatti itself atones for all prior karma, one necessarily recognizes one's helplessness (kArpyaNyam) and ignorance when taking refuge with the Lord. If, on the other hand, lack of ignorance is taken as a prerequisite for taking refuge (i.e., demanding that taking refuge be done 100% "properly"), none of us would be qualified, as taking refuge itself is what in the end destroys our ignorance. [*] except for prArabdha karma for dRpta prapannas. > >but our > >very imperfection is the cause for our prapatti and consequently > >for His acceptance of us. > > If this was completely true then prapatti should be the only way for > moksham. But that is not the case. There are definitely other > methods/ways though difficult they still exist. Prapatti, whether as a limb of the discipline of bhakti-yoga or as a wholehearted, complete surrender of one's self to the Lord, is the _only_ way to moksha according to our acharyas. Sri Ramanuja explicitly says this in the Vedarthasangraha and this is explained in further detail by Sri Sudarsana Suri. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1998 Report Share Posted October 13, 1998 > Sri Mani wrote: > >If, out of ignorance or unintentional error, someone falls short > >of the ideal, is it not the greatness of the Lord that he still > >accepts the devotee? Perfect prapatti a la Nammalvar is a very > >difficult state to reach adiyen thought the "ideal" you are talking about is "performing sadhana" or service to the Lord and that we devotees are following short of that ideal.adiyen understood/misunderstood the "ideal" to mean the "Nitya karmanushtams" that we are instructed to do daily and as such any claims to fall short of that ideal can only smack of "insincerity". We are asked to perform certain duties. Definitely God will ask us to do only what we can do or what we are able to do and not something we cannot do. >Perfect prapatti a la Nammalvar is a very > >difficult state to reach Why is this so ?.Just because it is difficult doesnt mean we should not aspire for it nor is "aspiring to be perfect in the service of the Lord" a sign of "arrogance". We have to perform our duties as per scripture the "imperfection" of the act is very much acknowledged.For example ,we want to do japa or meditation and we are supposed to chant mantras concentrating on the Lord. We do it but we fail to concentrate properly. The act is being done but imperfectly.Sriman Narayana is nevertheless pleased with the act and forgives the imperfection in the act. He also helps us to achieve perfection in the act if we pray for it. The key here is persistence/Perseverence.Just so we are humble and we think that we are "imperfect in doing japa" is not a valid reason for not doing japa/meditation. >If, on the other hand, lack of ignorance >is taken as a prerequisite for taking refuge (i.e., demanding >that taking refuge be done 100% "properly"), none of us would be >qualified, as taking refuge itself is what in the end >destroys our ignorance. if there is a 100% proper way to take refuge then that is the way to do it.Lack of ignorance can be called as "Knowledge", I dont see how without the requisite knowledge one can perform prapatti and then maintain a clean slate after "prapatti".Even to know that "prapatti" is the only means requires knowledge about it. I do beg forgiveness for my "imperfection" in this act of expressing my thoughts. adiyEn, sriram,balaraman ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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