Guest guest Posted December 6, 1998 Report Share Posted December 6, 1998 Respected Devotees, I am member of this forum, who joined very recently(by the very grace of Sri Emperumaanar). I would like to have a few very long desires of mine satisfied through this forum. if possible. They are: 1. What is meant by Santhyavadanam? Why it is done? What is the exact ritual to be followed? What are the slokas to be recited? 2. What is Gayathri Mantra? Can anyone of you give a text form of it, so that I can learn. To say the truth, no one revealed me these things as I am a non-brahmin (allegedly Sudra, at that!). I came from a brahmin dominated school and I was forsaken from my childhood by many of them who think that the Lord is a property of themselves alone. Please do not mistake me, as I am just mentioning the sheer fact and I am not intended to hurt anyone's feelings. But thanks to the Lord who time to time teach these trivias, by many events for instance those happened to SRI THIRUPAANAZHVAAR. I hope that I could get a good response to my above queries from this elited forum, as all members are following the foot prints of SRI RAMANUJA, who by himself pronounced the(esoteric) mantra of SriMan Narayanan from a high temple tower. As you may be knowing, he did so mainly to benefit all people and to emphasize that the Lord is common to all, from a begger to a king. This arised much of anger among the brahmins at that time and they even tried to kill our Ilaiyazhvaar. However they could not succeed as the Lord himself stood by Sri Ramanuja. Hope to hear from any of you. Sri Mani Varadahrajan, if you are reading this, please enlighten me. Azhvaar Thiruvadigale Saranam Emperumaanaar Thiruvadigale Saranam Achaaryan Thiruvadigale Saranam Adiyen, Sathyanarayana Ramanujadasan. ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 1998 Report Share Posted December 7, 1998 "Sathyanarayanan K" <k_sathya writes: [...] > I hope that I could get a good response to my above queries > from this elited forum, as all members are following the foot > prints of SRI RAMANUJA, who by himself pronounced the(esoteric) > mantra of SriMan Narayanan from a high temple tower. As you may > be knowing, he did so mainly to benefit all people and to > emphasize that the Lord is common to all, from a begger to a > king. This arised much of anger among the brahmins at that time > and they even tried to kill our Ilaiyazhvaar. However they > could not succeed as the Lord himself stood by Sri Ramanuja. Sriya:patayE nama: Contrary to the popular belief, SrI rAmAnujAcArya only spoke about the glories of the mantra-s to inspire ardent devotees (mumukshu-s) to approach sadAcArya-s and to get samASrayaNam, kAlakshEpam and prapatti so SrIman-nArAyaNa would grant them mOksham. (ie complete brahmAnubhavam and uninterupted eternal service to SrIman-nArAyaNa.) -aDiyEn, Ram > [...] > Hope to hear from any of you. Sri Mani Varadahrajan, if you > are reading this, please enlighten me. > Azhvaar Thiruvadigale Saranam > Emperumaanaar Thiruvadigale Saranam > Achaaryan Thiruvadigale Saranam > Adiyen, > Sathyanarayana Ramanujadasan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 1998 Report Share Posted December 8, 1998 Sri Ram Gopalaswamy wrote: > "Sathyanarayanan K" <k_sathya writes: > > I hope that I could get a good response to my above queries > > from this elited forum, as all members are following the foot > > prints of SRI RAMANUJA, who by himself pronounced the(esoteric) > > mantra of SriMan Narayanan from a high temple tower. As you may > > be knowing, he did so mainly to benefit all people and to > > emphasize that the Lord is common to all, from a begger to a > > king. > Contrary to the popular belief, SrI rAmAnujAcArya only spoke about the > glories of the mantra-s to inspire ardent devotees (mumukshu-s) to approach > sadAcArya-s and to get samASrayaNam, kAlakshEpam and prapatti so > SrIman-nArAyaNa would grant them mOksham. Dear Ram: Actually, Sathya's opinion is closer to Ramanuja's intent, according to the traditional biographies of Ramanuja, and acharyas' works that I have heard and read. While there is no doubt that Sri Ramanuja emphasized the need of the grace of an acharya and the relevant samskaaras such as samASrayaNam, etc., Ramanuja's revolutionary act of broadcasting the secret teaching of Tirukottiyur Nambi to others was intended to directly and immediately take them to the highest of all states. Such was the unbounded compassion of Ramanuja for the common person. Let me first quote from the oldest biography (13th century), Pinpazhagiya Perumal Jiyar's "aaraayirappadi" (6000) guru paramparaa prabhaavam. This passage is so inspiring that it is worth quoting in full. Ramanuja approached Tirukkottiyur Nambi 18 times to learn the most esoteric teachings of Sri Vaishnavism. When Tirukkottiyur Nambi was finally convinced that Ramanuja was deserving of this teaching, and that Ramanuja would further keep this teaching in confidence, Jiyar writes: Tirukkottiyur Nambi, out of supreme compassion, graciously imparted the inner meaning of the great and most sacred of mantras, which gives everything good, as described in the verses: praNava (OmkAra) first, "namas" in the middle, the word "nArAyaNa" at the end -- one should know this mantra of eight-syllables which confers all gifts to people. This mantra gives wisdom and liberation, and should be constantly chanted by those desiring liberation; it promotes devotion and knowledge and should be constantly chanted by Vaishnavas. [Prasna Samhita?] This mantra of eight holy letters, consisting of three words, is recommended for daily meditation by Sri Vaishnavas who desire liberation because it generates knowledge, wisdom, and dispassion in them. Ramanuja, having gotten what he desired, went the very next day to the temple [thiruvOlakkam?] of Terkaazhvaan, the PerumaaL of that town, and gave that very meaning of the highest of esoteric mantras to many Sri Vaishnavas. Having heard what Udaiyavar [Ramanuja] had done, Nambi summoned him and said, "Didn't I tell you to keep the inner meaning of the highest mantra to yourself, and not to tell a single soul? I heard that you forgot this instruction of mine and repeated the meaning to many Sri Vaishnavas." "It is true; keeping Your holy feet in mind, I told them", replied Udaiyavar. "Wasn't it my order that you not repeat this to anyone else? What do you think your fate is for having ignored this and told others?", asked Nambi. "For someone such as myself who ignored the command of his acharya, Hell alone is the result," replied Ramanuja. "But will I not be the only one to enter Hell? * I repeated your teaching to others with your sacred * feet in mind, and because of that, all these tens of * millions of individuals will flourish [attain moksha] * through connection with those sacred feet. This is why I said it." Overjoyed at Ramanuja's compassion for his fellow beings, Nambi exclaimed, "Oh my, this sort of compassion I simply do not have! O 'Emberumaanaar' [one greater that the Lord]! Please come here!" Embracing and lifting him, Nambi went on, "Are You the Lord Himself? Until now this system of thought was known as Parama Vaidika Siddhantam, the Supreme Vedic Philosophy. From now on, let it be known as the Philosophy of Emberumaanaar [Ramanuja]." Thus Nambi instructed everyone. Jiyar goes on to record that Nambi was so impressed with Ramanuja's unbounded compassion that he taught him the meaning of the carama sloka (Bhagavad Gita 18.66) as well. With respect to this, Sri Manavala Mamunigal writes: It is very hard to to find those who are qualified for [receiving the inner meaning of the carama sloka]. For this reason, and because of the venerable importance of its meaning, Ramanuja's predecessors had kept it a secret, without making it public. But Ramanuja's overwhelming compassion made him unable to bear seeing the distress of those in samsaara. Thus, regardless of the preciousness of the carama sloka's meaning, when he saw their suffering, he publicized it. [Translation of the Introduction to Mamunigal "carama sloka adhikaaram", Mumukshuppadi, by Patricia Mumme. Unfortunately, I do not have the original.] It is clear from the writing of these two acharyas that Ramanuja wished to broaden the net to encompass essentially all those within earshot. To say otherwise would be to undo what he quite clearly did, and make Ramanuja's legacy no different in this regard from the acharyas before him. [Note I am not making a comment here on Gayatri or Sandhavandanam -- that will have to be discussed later separately.] emberumaanaar thiruvadigaLE SaraNam thirukkacci nambi dhaasan Mani ------------- [Original from 6000 guru paramparaa prabhaavam] .... [thirukkOttiyUr nambi] paramakrupaiyaalE praNavAdyam namo madhyam nArAyaNapadAntimam | mantram ashTAksharam vidyAt sarvasiddhikaram nRNAm || mumukshUNAm sadA japyam buddhimuktiphalapradam | vaishNavANAm sadA japyam bhaktijnAna pravartanam || engiRapadiyE ettuth thiruvaksharamaay padhathrayamaathmakamaay, jnaanabhakthi vairaagya janakamaakaiyaalE mumukshukkaLaana SrIvaishNavargaLukku "naaththaazhumpezha sadhaa anusandhEyamaay" nalantharum collaana periya thirumanthraarththaththai prasaadhiththaruLinaar. iraamaan^usanum kruthaarththaraay, adhin maRRainaaL avvUril emberumaanaana theRkaazhvaar thiruvOlakkaththilE an^Ekam SrIvaishNavargaLukku ap paramarahasyaarththaththai aruLicceydharuLinaar. icceydhiyai nambi kEttaruLi udaiyavarai azhaiththu, "indhap paramarahasyaarththaththai vERoruvarkkum collaadhE koLLum enRanRO naam umakkuc connOm; aththai maRuththu neer an^Ekam SrIvaishNavargaLukkuc conneerenRu kEttOm" enRu kEttaruLa, udaiyavarum, "uLLadhu; dhevareer thiruvadigaLai munnittukkoNdu connEn" enRu viNNappam ceyya, nambiyum, "oruvarkkum collavENdaavenRu niyamiththanRO connOm; aththai maRuththuc conna umakkup phalam Edhu?" enRu kEttaruLa, udaiyavarum, "aacaarya niyaman^aththai maRuththa enakku narakamE phalam" enRu aruLicceyya, iraamaan^usanum " adiyEn oruvanEyanRo narakam puguvadu? dhEvareer thiruvadigaLai munnittukkondu collukaiyaalE ivv aathmakOtigaLellaam dhEvareer thiruvadi sambandhaththaalE ujjIvipparkaL enRu connEn", enRu viNNappam ceyya nambiyum, "indhap parasamrudhdhi namakkuk koodiRRillaiyE!" enRu ivar parasamrudhdhikkuppOra ugandharuLi, "emberumaanaarE! vaarum", enRu eduththu aNaiththukkondu, "avarO neer?" enRu aruLicceydhu, "idhu varaiyil idh dharSanam paramavaidhika sidhdhaantham enRirundhadhu; inRu mudhal 'emberumaanaar dharSanam' ennungoL" enRu ellaarkkum aruLicceydhadhu. -------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 1998 Report Share Posted December 8, 1998 Mani Varadarajan wrote: > > > With respect to this, Sri Manavala Mamunigal writes: > > It is very hard to to find those who are qualified > for [receiving the inner meaning of the carama sloka]. > For this reason, and because of the venerable importance > of its meaning, Ramanuja's predecessors had kept it a > secret, without making it public. > > But Ramanuja's overwhelming compassion made him unable > to bear seeing the distress of those in samsaara. Thus, > regardless of the preciousness of the carama sloka's meaning, > when he saw their suffering, he publicized it. > > [Translation of the Introduction to > Mamunigal "carama sloka adhikaaram", > Mumukshuppadi, by Patricia Mumme. > Unfortunately, I do not have the > original.] > > It is clear from the writing of these two acharyas > that Ramanuja wished to broaden the net to encompass > essentially all those within earshot. To say otherwise > would be to undo what he quite clearly did, and make > Ramanuja's legacy no different in this regard from the > acharyas before him. Thank you, Mani, for clarifying this very important incident from our community's rich history. There are three words from above, "... Ramanuja's overwhelming compassion..." which repeatedly catch my attention. To me, these are words for constant meditation whenever we look upon a picture or vigrahan of Sri Ramanuja. I can almost picture our dear emperumAnAr looking at all of us with his compassionate eyes and feeling for our sufferings. How much better we all would be if we could only experience a fraction of what emperumAnAr felt for humanity. emperumAnAr thiruvadigalE saranam, Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 1998 Report Share Posted December 9, 1998 SrI Mani Varadarajan writes: | > Sri Ram Gopalaswamy wrote: | > "Sathyanarayanan K" <k_sathya writes: | >> I hope that I could get a good response to my above | >> queries from this elited forum, as all members are | >> following the foot prints of SRI RAMANUJA, who by | >> himself pronounced the(esoteric) mantra of SriMan | >> Narayanan from a high temple tower. As you may be | >> knowing, he did so mainly to benefit all people and to | >> emphasize that the Lord is common to all, from a begger to | >> a king. | > Contrary to the popular belief, SrI rAmAnujAcArya only | > spoke about the glories of the mantra-s to inspire ardent | > devotees (mumukshu-s) to approach sadAcArya-s and to get | > samASrayaNam, kAlakshEpam and prapatti so SrIman-nArAyaNa | > would grant them mOksham. | > Dear Ram: | [...] | > Let me first quote from the oldest biography (13th | > century), Pinpazhagiya Perumal Jiyar's "aaraayirappadi" | > (6000) guru paramparaa prabhaavam. This passage is so | > inspiring that it is worth quoting in full. | [...] | > Ramanuja, having gotten what he desired, went the very | > next day to the temple [thiruvOlakkam?] of Terkaazhvaan, | > the PerumaaL of that town, and gave that very meaning of | > the highest of esoteric mantras to many Sri Vaishnavas. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | > Having heard what Udaiyavar [Ramanuja] had done, Nambi | > summoned him and said, "Didn't I tell you to keep the | > inner meaning of the highest mantra to yourself, and not | > to tell a single soul? I heard that you forgot this | > instruction of mine and repeated the meaning to many Sri Vaishnavas." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | [...] | emberumaanaar thiruvadigaLE SaraNam | thirukkacci nambi dhaasan | Mani Dear Mani: I thought SrI K. Sathyanarayanan ,in his original message, was saying that SrI rAmAnujAcArya just shouted the rahasya-mantras LITERALLY to arbitrary people. My reply was based on that assumption. Your quote from SrI Pinpazhagiya Perumal Jiyar's work is interesting. I am not sure how to understand it. Is the jIyar implying that SrI rAmAnujAcArya revealed _only_ the inner meanings of the mantra-s, that too to SrI vaishNava-s _only_ ? (ie to devotees that were already instructed the rahasya-mantra-s by a sadAcArya through initiation? ) In other words, is the jIyar implying that SrI rAmAnujAcArya did not loudly shout the mantras (literally, in the exact word order) to non-SrI-vaishNavas ? [ if there is there is a difference beween saying just the mantra-meaning and loudly saying the mantras literally. ] [btw, is it not also said that SrIman-nArAyaNa Himself instructs the mantra-traya and their meanings, in the AvESa form of a sadAcArya ? That means if an ordinary person imitates what SrI rAmAnujAcArya did, they would be comitting a big offense ? ] Thanks for any clarification. - rAmAnuja dAsan, Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 1998 Report Share Posted December 9, 1998 Ram wrote: > Is the jIyar implying that SrI rAmAnujAcArya revealed _only_ the > inner meanings of the mantra-s, that too to SrI vaishNava-s _only_ ? > (ie to devotees that were already instructed the rahasya-mantra-s by > a sadAcArya through initiation? ) The significance of Ramanuja's act was to reveal publicly what heretofore was a closely guarded secret -- the inner meaning of the rahasyas. The mantras themselves were comparatively easy to get. There is not much required to have samASrayaNam. All that was required even in those days was desire, from what I understand. But far more significant than the mere words of the mantras (vAcaka) are the inner meanings (vAcya) of the mantras. This point is expounded in many acharyas' works -- see Jiyar's "vaarttaamaalai", Sri Desika's "rahasya traya saaram", and Maamunigal's "mumukshuppadi vyaakhyaanam". I cannot say for sure whether Ramanuja only revealed these heretofore secret teachings only to Sri Vaishnavas. The tendency of authors those days was to refer to all devotees of the Lord as Sri Vaishnavas, especially those gathered at a temple. I surmise that there may have been unofficial Sri Vaishnavas in the gathering as well (how can one check to be sure?) but this is just a guess. The other quote from Maamunigal suggests that Ramanuja publicized the meaning of the mantras to anyone whom he saw suffering, without looking at qualifications. > In other words, is the jIyar implying that SrI rAmAnujAcArya > did not loudly shout the mantras (literally, in the exact word order) > to non-SrI-vaishNavas ? [ if there is there is a difference beween > saying just the mantra-meaning and loudly saying the mantras literally. ] Jiyar clearly says that Ramanuja revealed the "rahasyArtham", the meaning of the mantras. Nowhere does he say that Ramanuja shouted out the mantras themselves ("mantram yatnena gopayet"). But once again, the text of the mantra (tirumantra and carama sloka) were easy to come by and were in vogue among non-Vaishnavas as well. In any case, as explained, the inner meaning of the mantra was and is far more important than the mantra itself. tirukkacci nambi daasan Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1998 Report Share Posted December 11, 1998 Mani wrote: > The other quote from Maamunigal suggests that Ramanuja > publicized the meaning of the mantras to anyone whom he saw > suffering, without looking at qualifications. Only that much should be understood from the incident, nothing more - that SrI rAmAnujAcArya is a very compassionate AcArya, who freely distributed the mercy of SrIman-nArAyaNa to any samsArin, regardless of their varNa. But the sanAtana varNASrama-dharma SAstric restrictions are also there. Since the ashThAkshara is of vEdic origin and contains praNavam, SrI rAmAnujAcArya would not have probably whimsically shouted it out, contrary to the popular belief nowadays. According Your other quote from SrI Pinpazhagiya Perumal Jiyar's "aaraayirappadi" (6000) guru paramparaa prabhaavam, shows that rAmAnujAcArya spoke only about the mantra-rahasyArtha-s. That is the point I have been trying to get at. > In any case, as explained, the inner meaning of the mantra was > and is far more important than the mantra itself. That is obviously true when one performs mantra-japa mentally (to oneself). But the situation in context is different, where SrI rAmAnujAcArya is allegedly addressing a crowd . > tirukkacci nambi daasan Mani SrI maNavALa-mAmunigaL tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam, -aDiyEn, Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1998 Report Share Posted December 11, 1998 In the ashtAkshara, I thought only the Pranavam is Veda Manthram. The rest of akshara can be recited by any varna. In Divya Prabandam, I see namo nArAyanA in Thirupallandu, also in "vAdinEn varunthinEn Manathal". dAsan. Govindarajan. Ram Gopalaswamy wrote: >Only that much should be understood from the incident, nothing more - that SrI rAmAnujAcArya is a very compassionate AcArya, who freely distributed the mercy of SrIman-nArAyaNa to any samsArin, regardless of their varNa. But the sanAtana varNASrama-dharma SAstric restrictions are also there. Since the ashThAkshara is of vEdic origin and contains praNavam, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SrI rAmAnujAcArya would not have probably whimsically shouted it out, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1998 Report Share Posted December 11, 1998 > Since the ashThAkshara is of vEdic origin and contains praNavam, > SrI rAmAnujAcArya would not have probably whimsically shouted it out, > contrary to the popular belief nowadays. > > According Your other quote from SrI Pinpazhagiya Perumal Jiyar's > "aaraayirappadi" (6000) guru paramparaa prabhaavam, shows that rAmAnujAcArya > spoke only about the mantra-rahasyArtha-s. > That is the point I have been trying to get at. With respect to your first point - that may be true. On the other hand, it may not be completely true that emperumAnAr did not give the thirumantram to those "prohibited" to receive the mantram. he may not have shouted out the thirumantram, but he did convert a number of people *not* in the male, brahmin varnam to srIvaishNavam. Obviously, samAsrayaNam was performed for these people and the thirumantram was taught to them. Your point is well taken. However, we all should be careful to interpret our AchAryA's teachings, especially emperumAnAr's life and teachings in a spirit of inclusion, *NOT* exclusion. That is the greatest mistake that we can make. AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam, adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan, thirumalai anandAnpiLLai Varadhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1998 Report Share Posted December 11, 1998 Dear Members, I want to apologize for and correct an inadvertent exaggeration in my previous posting. I had written: > In any case, as explained, the inner meaning of the mantra was > and is far more important than the mantra itself. Sri Bharat of Bangalore points out the following important correction, based primarily on Sri Vedanta Desika's SaraNAgati gadya bhAshya: In his BhAshya on Sri EmberumAnAr's SaranAgati Gadyam while explaining the phrase: " Dvayam-arthAnusandhAnEna saha.." he says: "uchhAraNam prAdhAnyEna stOtum, arthAnusandhAne saha Sabdah" When there are two words together ,"saha" is added to the less important word which will be in the third declension. Here it is added to "arthAnusandhAna" - hence it is less important than saying the mantra.So whether you know the meaning or not mere saying of the mantra has the full effect. But knowing the meaning and thinking about it keeps us in the correct wavelength to think about the Lord.There is a famous description of Sri MaNavALa MAmuni which states how he would all the time be found sitting in a corner with closed eyes,with his lips throbbing with the Dvaya mantra and with his hairs standing on end with joy as he simultaneously meditated on its meaning. Sri Bharat continues (the translations are mine): No Acharya has made a comparison and given them relative values.Both the Mantra and its meaning are considered equally important.It all depends on the purpose to which you put them. Otherwise Sri Desikan would not have produced Srimad Rahasya- traya -sAram. And Sri pillailokAchAriar and Sri MaNavALa Mamunigal would not have said the following in Mumukshup-padi and its gloss: MM-"TirumantrattinuDaiya SIrmaikku ppOrumbaDi premattODe pENi anusandhikkavENum." VY-"ittai anusandhikkumaLavil Sushka-hrudayanA-yirund-anusandhikkai- yanRikke,idin vailakshaNya-gjAnamaDiyAga idin pakkal tanakkunDAna prEmattODe...pENikkonD-anusandhikkai." [Rough translation: Sutra: One should reflect on the tirumantra with respect and love as befits its excellence. Comm: In meditating on it, one should not have an empty heart; rather, one [should be filled with] respect and love that arises from the recognition of its unique excellence. ] Also in the next SUtra: "Mantrattilum,mantrattukku uLLIDAna vastuvilum mantra-pradanAna AchAryan pakkalilum prEmam ganakka unDAnAl kAryakaramAvadu." [ If one has profound love for the mantra, for that to which the mantra refers, and for the acharya who imparts the mantra, it will have effect. ["that to which the mantra refers" is the Lord.] ] As to the meaning of the SaranAgati-gadya excerpt I'd given: The PradhAnatvam of the mantra is because it is complete in itself (nirapEksha) to do its work ,like fire or a medicine which will act irrespective of whether you know its composition. The Artha is dependent on the mantra (sApeksha) and hence apradhAna.The icing cannot exist without the cake.But when you have both you have the cake WITH the icing. Otherwise Sri EmberumAnAr in his text could have as easily said,"dvayArth-AnusandhAnena yAva-chharIra-pAtam".He has used the words "dvaya-m" and "vaktA" to emphasise the importance of reciting the mantra itself. These are very important points, and it was my mistake to have said that the mantra itself was of lesser value. What I wrote was driven by statements extolling the greatness of the tirumantra's inner meaning, and by the fact that our acharyas generally did not use the mantra itself as a "sAdhana" in its own right, in spite of its power. Rather, they concentrated on reflecting on its meaning and keeping the Lord always in mind as the means and the goal. adiyEn tirukkacci nambi daasan Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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