Sri Agnihotram swamy and Srivaishnavism- by sri Dileepan

[Guest guest]

Sri Parthasarati Dileepan has suggested to me to post this on Bhakti net.

The following article was written by Sri Parthasarati Dileepan in reference

to the srimukham by Sri Agnihotram Swamy for the Dallas NAMA conferenence.

 

adiyen

 

Krishna Kalale

 

 

Parthasarati Dileepan )

Sri Agnihothram Swami on Sri Vaishnavam

:

:

 

Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Parabrhmane Nama:

Srimate Ramanujaya Nama:

Srimate Nigamantha Mahadesikaya Nama:

Srimate Athivan Satakopa Yathindra Mahadesikaya Nama:

Srimate Srivan Satakopa Sri Vedantadesika Yathindra

Mahadesikaya Nama:

Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Dhivya Padhukasevaka

Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yathindra Mahadesikaya Nama:

 

The recent Nama conference on Sri Vaishnava

Philosophy was filled with most enjoyable spiritual

experiences. The opportunity to associate with

Bhagavathas, witness divine thirumanjanam to

Lord Sri Rama, recite Azhvaar SrI SukthIs, Panca

Sukthas, recite Sri Vishnu Sahasranama, and many

more such activities is the reason we ask for

mOksham at the end of this life time as against

immediately after Prapatti. In this respect Smt.

Vimala and Sri Rajaji's kainkaryam is praise worthy

and fit for emulation by all of us.

 

At the beginning of the conference several Sri

Mukhams from Acharyas and eminent scholars

were read out. In all there were 10 Sri Mukhams,

the most received for a conference held in U.S. so

far. Sri Rajaji's initiative and Sri K.G. Krishnan's

tireless efforts to get these Sri Mukhams need to

be recognized and appreciated. Sri Srinivasan

must also be recognized for his part in getting Sri

Srirangam Andavan swami's Sri Mukham containing an

exquisite venpaa in Tamil. For the benefit of those

with Tamil knowledge this venpaa is reproduced below:

 

"nameththaa luyyumaa RenRingE eNNungaal

naamaththaa luyyalaa menRanar - kaamaththaal

yaamaththum naatkaalum naaraNan pErpaadi

EmaththE inbuRumiv vaiyam."

 

Sri Andavan Swami's word play with "nama" is most

enjoyable.

 

Besides the ten collected by Sri Rajaji, there was one

Sri Mukham that was presented by Sri S. Kirshnaswamy

of Dallas. This one was different from others in the

sense that its message seemed to be incongruent to the

teachings of our Acharyas and Azhvaars. This was the

Sri Mukham from Sri U. Ve. Agnihothram Ramanuja

Thathachariar Swamigal (Sri ART Swami).

>From the past posts made in this forum and others

it is clear that Sri ART Swami is a vEdic scholar

with few equals. However, adiyEn is quite

unsettled with Sri ART Swami's views presented in

the Sri Mukham. Almost every other sentence in

the Sri Mukham raised one question or another.

Only a few are highlighted below. The entire text

of the Sri Mukham is given at the end for your

information. AdiyEn has requested Sri S. Krishaswamy

of Dallas to get clarifications for these

questions directly from Sri ART Swami.

 

1. The Sri Mukham repeatedly uses the phrase

"South Indian Vaishnavism". Is Sri ART Swami

referring to "Sri Vaishnavism" by this phrase? If so,

is there any valid reason for choosing this phrase

not in vogue in our Sampradayam?

 

2. Phrases such as "primitive religious thinking",

"evolved", and "new religion", seem to negate

some of the fundamental beliefs of Sri Vaishnavam,

namely, Vedas are eternal and completely true,

Visihtadvaitam is the only religion that

satisfactorily explains both the bhEda and abhEda

sruthIs of the vEdas, and Sri Vaishnavam is not

founded by Sri Ramanuja, but is the true _old_

religion enshrined in the vEdas.

 

3. Sri ART Swami says:

"Vaishnavism of South India is the

latest child of Vedic religion. "

>From our Sampradaya texts, and even some that are

outside our Sampradayam, one can see that

Vaishnavasim (sic) existed in South India long

before many of the other religions. The existence

of Vaishnavam is seen in Silapathikaram and

Manimekalai dated around 2nd century C.E.

Paripadal dated around the 2nd century B.C.E. is

full of exquisite references to various forms and

avatharas of Sriman Narayana. Even a cursory

reading of these passages by someone with nominal

Tamil and Vedic knowledge is enough to convince

the antiquity of Vaishnavam in Tamil Nadu. For a

small taste consider the following from Paripadal

#3 by kaduvan iLaveyinanAr:

 

"thIyinuL theRal nI

poovinuL naaRRa nI

kallinuL maNiyu nI

sollinuL vaaymai nI

aRaththinuL anbu nI

maRaththinuL mainthu nI

vEthaththu maRai nI

boothaththu madhalu nI

vencudar oLiyu nI

thingaLuL aLiyu nI

anaiththu nI

anaiththinut poruLu nI"

 

(Note: The above is easy to understand even with

limited Tamil knowledge. The last line

"anaiththinut poruLum nI" is an important concept

unique to Sri Vaishnavam. More about it below.)

 

Even Tholkappiyam, the earliest known Tamil text,

is said to contain references to MayOn, the favorite

name by which Sriman Narayana is referred to by

Tamil bards. In all, the most compelling of all

these is the reference to the unique principle of

Sri Vaishnavam, namely the concept of body/soul

relationship elaborated in detail by Sri Ramanuja,

seen in Paripadal #2 by kIranthaiyAr. Please

consider the following:

 

"keduvil kELviyuL naduvaaguthalum

innilaith theriporuL thErin innilai"

 

"thErin" = if you understand the deep meaning of

"kedu il kELvi" = blemish less vEdhas

"naduvaaguthalum" = entering the core of

"theri poruL innilai" = sentient entities

"innilai" = is your true nature

 

Please note that this same concept was already

presented above in Paridpadal #3 with

"anaiththinut poruLu nI", i.e. you are the

in-dweller of all entities.

 

Thus, it is extremely clear that Sri Vaishnavam is

the first and only legitimate child of the Vedas (sic)

in South India. Why would Sri ART Swami consider

it to be "the latest child of Vedic religion " is

quite puzzling.

 

4. Sri ART Swamy says:

"... Their development is a most wonderful

and good one. They captured a common

religious thought, giving place to six

varieties of God. Worshipping God in the

form of Muruga, Siva, Ganapathy, Vishnu,

Devi and Surya is most advanced religious

progress not found in any other work. All

are independent, but equally valued, getting

equal place in the line of God. This

wonderful progress of religion was an

independent one. It was not influenced

by religious thinking of other people.

In Alwar songs, we find the wonderful

reference of six fold religion (Aarusamayam)

giving freedom to people in thinking of

religious peace."

 

Some in Tamil Nadu, and other places, do claim

equality of status for the six gods and their

respective religion, i.e. "arusamayam". However

this notion has been squarely rejected by our

Azhvaars and Acharyas. There is no place for such

equality among Sri Vaishnavas. To start with, one

of the Thaniyan for Thirumangai Azhvaar says the

following about the Azhvaar's paasurams.

 

"para samaya panjukku analin poRi"

 

(spark of fire for the cotton that the

other religions are)

 

Swami Sri Desikan, who was not only an unparalleled

Vedic scholar during his own time and ever since,

but also an unmatched Tamil scholar to this day,

rejects all religions that propound theories that do

not accept the unique supremacy of Sriman Narayana.

 

Some Azhvaars do talk about "aru samayam" in the

context of Sriman Narayana being the one who

bestows the demi-gods of the other religions such

as Siva, Muruga, Ganapathi, Devi, et al., with their

respective powers. But, there is no Azhvar verse

that says that all of these demi-gods are equal to

Sriman Narayana. Any doubt in this regard will be

cleared if one reads and understands Nammaazhvaar's

Thiruvaaymozhi 4.10. where he expresses astonishment

at those who chose other dEvathas when there is

AthippirAn standing eagerly to bestow all that one

desires including mOksha that only He can give.

 

In addition to the above, please permit me to quote

some passages from Iramaanusa nooRRanthaathi.

Please note that these verses were composed during

the life time of Sri Ramanuja, and the great

Acharyas himself blessed them personally.

 

Verse # 46: koorum samayangaLellaam kulaiya

(destroying all other religions)

 

Verse # 49: poymai arusamayam pOnathu

(the six-fold false religions vanished)

 

Verse # 54: naattiya nIsa samayangaL mANdana

(the established base religions died)

 

Verse # 63: arusamaya sediyaith thodarum maruL

soRinthOr sithainthOda

(those who are deluded with the six-fold

religion were routed)

 

It is clear from these that Sri Vaishnava Acharayas

and Azhvaar do not give equal value to "aru

samayam". It is true that we do not force our

religion upon others. As Nammaazhvaar says in

Thiruvaaymozhi 1.1.5,

 

"avar avar thamathamadhu"

 

each by his own choice. We do recognize that

individuals make choices based on their individual

karma. We also recognize that:

 

"vaikundhampuguvathu maNNavar vidhiyE"

 

-- Thiruvaay mozhi 10.9.9

 

That is, at one time or another each soul will

make the right choice and enter Vaikuntam. The

one and only choice for this, i.e. mOksham - the

true "religious peace" (sic), is Saranagathi

to ONLY Sriman Narayana's lotus feet. This is

clearly stated by Azhvaars and Acharyas. As Sri

Vaishnavas, then, there is only one choice. That

choice is Sriman Naryana's lotus feet. In other

words, the culmination of worship of other

deities, if such worship is free of hostility

towards Sriman Narayana, is Sri Vaishnavam and

total surrender to our Lord. Thus, Sri

Vaishnavam's stand on "aRu samayam" is not

equality among them.

 

5. Sri ART Swami says:

"Nammalwar also talks of this spirit,

adopting vedic and puraanic thoughts.

In his last song, he says that by loving

the three moorthis, he got moksha. "

 

All Sri Vaishnavas will be saddened to read the

above from someone who is respected as a Ubhaya

Vedanthathin. First and foremost, it is well known

even among upstarts such as adiyEn that

Nammaazvaar performed Saranagathi to the lotus

feet of Lord of ThiruvEngadavan in the "agalakillEn

iRaiyum" verse, Thiruvaaymozhi 6.10.10. Further,

the Azhvaar never says that he got mOksham by

loving the three moorthIs any where in all his

1,296 verses.

 

What he says in Thiruvaaymozhi 10.10.1 with,

 

"muniyE, naanmuganE, mukkaNNappaa"

 

is that Sriman Narayana is the in-dweller of all

sentient entities including these demi-gods. This

is abundantly clear from the very second line of

this verse where the Azhvaar says,

 

"thaamaraik kaN karumaaNikkamE, en kaLvA".

 

Who else but Sriman Narayana is the lotus eyed

one? Thus, the Azhvaar sees Sriman Narayana as

the ensouler of all the others. It is indeed

astounding that a Sri Vaishnava scholar would

quote this verse to equate demi-gods with the

one and only supreme Lord, Sriman Narayana!!!

 

6. Sri ART Swamy says:

"... The Saranagathi principle, which the

South Indian aachaaryas explain uniquely

well, comprises service to whole humanity

to become God in this birth itself."

 

".. to become God..."??? Is this not Advaitham?

It is indeed incredulous that Sri ART Swami wrote

this.

 

In addition, no Azhvaar says anywhere that service

must be to _whole_ humanity. Wherever service is

emphasized, it is service to only Vaishnavas.

Azhvaars use phrases such as:

 

"thiru nAraNan thoNdar",

"enthaipirAn thanakku adiyAr",

"chakkaraththaNNal maNivaNNaRku AL", etc.

 

Thus service is only to Sri Vaishnavas, not to whole

humanity. Further, Sri Ramanuja himself directed us

from his deathbed to:

 

(i) recoil away from those who are opposed to

Sriman Narayana,

 

(ii) treat those who are indifferent to the Lord

with contempt, and,

 

(iii) shower our best respect to those who hold

Sriman Narayana as the only supreme.

 

-- (from ArAyirappadi Guruparampara prabhavam)

 

Thus, Saranagathi to Lord Sriman Narayana does

not comprise indiscriminate service to the whole

humanity.

 

 

7. Sri ART Swami says:

"Saranagathi principle comes as the

culmination of maturing in bhakthi marga."

 

What adiyEn has heard from kalakshEbams is that

Saranagathi for mOksham is an independent upaya.

It is not a culmination of "bhakti marga" aka

Bhakti Yoga. It is true that Saranagathi is

an anga in Bhakti yoga. Likewise, pure bhakti

is an element of Saranagathi. However, mixing

these two concepts will lead only to unnecessary

confusion.

 

Those who are qualified and capable of Bhakti Yoga

in every way are required to seek mOksham only

thorough Bhakthi Yoga. They may perform

saranagathi for the successful completion of Bhakti

Yoga, but the Saranagathi is not for the sake of

mOksham. On the other hand, those who lack one

or more qualifications for Bhakti Yoga, i.e. those

who are Akinchinyas and Ananyagathithvas,

perform Saranagathi for mOksham at the lotus feet

of Sriman Narayana with the attendant angas.

Included in the Akinchinyathvam is the inability

to perform Bhakti Yoga. In other words, one must

first forsake Bhakti Yoga as a means for mOksha,

and only then does he become eligible for Prapatti,

i.e. Saranagathi, as the upaya for mOksham. Thus

Saranagati, as an upaya for mOksham, is not a

culmination of Bhakti Marga (Yoga).

 

AdiyEn shall stop with this. Please note that no

disrespect is intended towards Sri ART Swami.

AdiyEn is eager to hear Sri ART Swami's

clarifications regarding the points raised above.

 

 

srimad azhagiya singar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

 

-- adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

 

==================================================

Srimukham from Sri U. Ve. Agnihothram Ramanuja

Thathachariar Swamigal

 

I am very glad to note that Vaishnavas of South

India , living in North America, are assembling in a

conference to meet each other to do their kainkarya.

For Vaishnavas, discharging their duties is their

kainkarya. By sending this message, I also enjoy

my kainkarya.

 

Sree Vaishnavas are spreading throughout America

and are constructing number of temples. This

shows that South Indian Sree Vaishnavas, after

going to the States, follow their Vaishnavism with

great eagerness.

 

Vaishnavism of South India is the latest child of

Vedic religion. Here we find the essence of all the

vedas, puraanas, all the religious, philosophical and

mystical thinking. It includes Tamil traditional

religious principles, Alwar songs and thoughts on

aagamaas, both paancharaathra and vaigaanasa.

Out of the many Vaishnavism schools in India, the

specialty of the South Indian Vaishnavism is the

inclusion of Tamil tradition and aagamaas, both

paancharaathra and vaigaanasa, which give

importance to the idol worship in houses and

temples. Aagamaas hail from Kashmir and claim

distinction in creating a new class of Bhagavathaas,

in the unity of caste system, giving importance to

the "Vaasudeva Mantra" and importance to the idol

worship in Sanscrit tradition.

 

Vedas, which contain thousands of mantras and

brahmanas, establish the common aspects of all

religions, and talk about God, the soul and the

relation between both. It is very comprehensive

and evolved from the stage of primitive religious

thinking. The rituals are unique, very elaborate

and followed by only a few. Likewise, puraarnaas,

with great ambition, also develop thoughts about

God and soul in a big way. The Vaigaanasa and

Paancharaathra aagamas, on the other hand,

developed from the Vedic path and created a new

religion giving new thoughts about God, soul and

their relationship.

 

The Tamil people helped in the development of

South Indian Vaishnavism. Progressing out of the

primitive stage, they developed a new and

advanced religious system. It is interesting to note

that the Tamil people independently and steadily

developed their civilization with their own

language. This is a unique contribution by

Tamilians to the history of religion and culture.

Their religious and cultural thoughts have been

wonderfully recorded in "Sangam" literature and in

post "Sangam" literature. Their development is a

most wonderful and good one. They captured a

common religious thought, giving place to six

varieties of God. Worshipping God in the form of

Muruga, Siva, Ganapathy, Vishnu, Devi and Surya

is most advanced religious progress not found in

any other work. All are independent, but equally

valued, getting equal place in the line of God. This

wonderful progress of religion was an independent

one. It was not influenced by religious thinking of

other people. In Alwar songs, we find the

wonderful reference of six fold religion (Aar-

usamayam) giving freedom to people in thinking of

religious peace. Nammalwar also talks of this

spirit, adopting vedic and puraanic thoughts. In

his last song, he says that by loving the three

moorthis, he got moksha.

 

Alwars' idea of God worship involved simple

rituals and worshipping with flowers. Tamilians

built wonderful civilizations based on highest

morals. When the vedic people came to South

India, Tamiliains did not hesitate to welcome and

honor them. In the world history of religions,

vedic religion has only one allied religion, that of

Tamil people. In religious rituals and morals,

South Indian Vaishnavism is a most wonderful

religion, product of three traditions combined

(vedic, aagamic and Tamiliain). Only the study of

all three traditions can reveal the glory of Tamil

Nadu Vaishnavism. The ultimate message of

South Indian Vaishnavism is a very wonderful one -

love God and love your co-beings. To distill out

these ideas, the Achaaryas of both sects wrote

Rahasya scriptures. Here we find thoughts from

thousands of quotations of Sanskrit books and

Tamil scriptures. In South Indian Vaishnavism, the

love for God takes shape of some rituals because

rituals are nothing other than the translation of

religious thoughts in to actions. Likewise, loving

fellow human beings also takes shape in action as

doing service to humanity.

 

The Saranagathi principle, which the South Indian

aachaaryas explain uniquely well, comprises

service to whole humanity to become God in this

birth itself. Saranagathi principle comes as the

culmination of maturing in bhakthi marga. One

aachaarya says that doing service to humanity as a

whole is the effect of saranagathi. Another

aachaarya says that it is part of saranagathi.

Anyhow, aahaaryas are unanimous in underscoring

the importance of saranagathi principle. By this we

may understand that service to whole humanity is a

kainkarya. Everywhere, the divine outlook wants

to serve people. This is necessary and essential.

So, whole life is taken as a kainkarya to God. In

this way, professionalism, materialism and

commercialism of religion were taken out.

 

Vedic passages which are in thousands of smrithies

text, and puranic passages which are also in

thousands of texts and aagama texts which are

explained by aachaaryas in Rahasya Grandhas -

ultimately these find the wonderful Swami Bhava

of Narayana, Dasa Bhava of Jeeva and kainkarya

bhava for all jeevaathmaas in all actions.

 

In this birth itself, here, the worldly life creates

aanandaa amidst its miseries. So, in modem times,

Vaishnavaa must understand the quintessence of

Vaishnavism and its importance to the world. I say

that, in short, South Indian Vaishnavism is an

ethical religion and has universal importance.

 

Sri Narayana bless you all. Acharya also bless

you all.

 

(signed)

Agnihothram Ramanuja Thathachariar December 1998

 

============================================

[Guest guest]

Before we continue this discussion, I think we should pause

for a moment. Sri Agnihotram Ramanuja Tatachariar (ART) Swami's

words of blessing (srimukham) were sent to a different forum,

and were reposted here merely for the sake of disagreeing with

them. Do we want to publicly argue with the Swami, when he is

not here to defend himself?

 

Furthermore, several respected members of this List have

vociferously argued in the past that an Acharya's words should

be given utmost respect, especially in a forum for Sri Vaishnavism.

Sri Agnihotram Ramanuja Tatachariar is an outstanding Vedic

scholar with impeccable credentials. Even more important,

Sri ART comes from a distinguished acharya-purusha lineage

that can be traced back to Sri Ramanujacharya's uncle, and has

several disciples among Bhakti List members. Sri ART continues

to administer the sacraments of panca-samskAram and bhara-nyAsam

to his disciples today, and lives a very pure, orthodox lifestyle.

 

I have personally no problem with anyone taking issue with what

an acharya says. But those who are presently arguing publicly

with what Sri ART has written have severely criticized anyone

who has publicly disagreed with their own acharya in the past.

I want to make sure that they are adhering to the same standard.

 

Now, I don't agree with most of what Sri ART says; but I also

think it is okay to disagree now and then with what an acharya

says on some issues, whether that acharya be Sri ART, Srimad

Azhagiya Singar, or Sri Kanchi P.B. Annangarachariar Swami.

 

Are those who are presently arguing with Sri ART Swami prepared

to set such a precedent?

 

Mani

 

P.S. There is also no need for us to rehash what is already

part of the public record. For those interested in the controversy

over Sri ART Swami's opinions, they should read his book

"varalaaRRil piRandha vaiNavam", published in the early 1970s,

and the response of Puttur S. Krishnaswamy Iyengar, published

almost immediately after it as "agnihotramum vaiNavamum".

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimate Sri Lakshminrusimha Parabrahmane namaha

 

Dear devotees,

namo nArAyaNA. pranAmams.

 

adiyEn's father went to Sri ART's house and got the things clarified.

The

whole letter presented at the NAMA Dallas Conference was his writings

only and Sri ART believes in whatever he wrote as correct ( though

many a things are in absolute direct contradiction with sAstrAs ie.

Sri Vaishnavam ).

 

Sri ART then started talking to my father about his findings out of

his

own research (as he puts it) :

For Sri ART, Gadya Trayam is not a composition of rAmAnujar ;

rAmAnujar doesn't knew tamil it seems and he was from persia/kashmir

it seems; Nammazhwar performed Saranagathy to Sivan, Vishnu and

Brahma together it seems ; the list goes on and on.......

 

As a side note adiyEn wants to point out that Sri ART's "vedaththil

pengaL"

was severely criticized by the mahAtmA Abhinava Desikan Uttamoor

Swamy. During the Centenary Celebrations of Uttamoor Swamy(Jan 1997)

,

Sri ART told many things which were again contradictory to sAstrAs /

Sri

Vaishnavam. Ofcourse the AchAryA who spoke next thrashed all those

speculative ideas in a polished way.

 

One AchAryA expressed the view that Sri ART shouldn't talk about

his

own ideas/understanding of vedas, when he is speaking during the

Centennary celebration of Uttamoor SwAmy. At such instances, one

should speak only what is consistent with Uttamoor Swamy's writings

(ie.

according to sampradAyam) . That AchAryA also has the view that ,

when a Srimukham is given for a Sri Vaishnava Conference, it

shouldn't

contain messages that are contradictory to Sri Vaishnavam. If one

feels that

he can't write a Srimukham (letter) consistent with Sri

Vaishnavam, he

should refuse to write the Srimukham rather than filling it with

messages

that are not in accordance with Sri Vaishnavam.

 

adiyEn doesn't have anything against Sri ART as a person. Its pretty

 

obvious that adiyEn (or whomsoever who follows sampradAyam)

can't agree with many of Sri ART's views. So, the issue is only

regarding the views of Sri ART and not him as a person.

 

adiyEn doesn't know about the rules of the list properly . So Sri

Mani

can point out if something is contradictary to his own views on how

a

posting should be there on the list.

 

But according to adiyEn, Sri Dileepan's posting on this issue was

very balanced and composed and was written in a very good mood.

adiyEn appreciates Sri Dileepan's posting.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpanam