[Fwd: About Bhagavadgeetha and kainkaryam.]

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Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:59:17 +0530

B N SURESH 's ACCOUNT bnsuresh

bhakti-errors

About Bhagavadgeetha and kainkaryam.

sri Raamanuja tiruvadigale sarnam

 

Respected members,

I have two questions which i

would like to share with all of you,

 

1. According to Ramanuja's Gita bhashya, an aspirant of moksha has to

realise his own self or have an experience

of atmaavalokana through the process of either karma yoga or

jnana yoga before he starts bhakti yoga in the

real sense .

Now my question is, " What is it that

factor that shifts the attention of an aspirant

having the experience of his own pure self towards God or

Isvara, so that he starts bhakti yoga

leading to para bhakti and so on, since the jnana, aananda(joy)

inherent in the self might itself

satisfy the self which has realised itself ".

 

2. At many places in books related to Visistaadvaitha, i have come

across sentences like " The real nature

of the jivatman is to do kainkaryam to Narayana" and "The jiva

exists solely for the pleasure of the Lord".

Now what exactly do the two statements mean, taking the

ontological definitions of jiva and isvara in

Visistaadvaita vedanta into consideration.

Thanking you.

 

with regards

B.N.Suresh.

[Guest guest]

BN Suresh wrote :

sri Raamanuja tiruvadigale sarnam

 

Respected members,

I have two questions which i

would like to share with all of you,

 

1. According to Ramanuja's Gita bhashya, an aspirant of moksha has to

realise his own self or have an experience

of atmaavalokana through the process of either karma yoga or

jnana yoga before he starts bhakti yoga in the

real sense .

Now my question is, " What is it that

factor that shifts the attention of an aspirant

having the experience of his own pure self towards God or

Isvara, so that he starts bhakti yoga

leading to para bhakti and so on, since the jnana, aananda(joy)

inherent in the self might itself

satisfy the self which has realised itself ".

 

******* Krishna Kalale :

 

I am happy to note that your questions are well thought out. Note that

jiva is similar in svarupa to paramatma and also ensouled by paramatma.

Kaivalya or just self realization is also a stage in the process of

paramatma realization. self is unmistakably ensouled by paramatma - ie.

supported, controlled, and does exist for the sole purpose of pleasing

paramatma (adhara, niyamaka, seshi). Initially just like how when a person

from far is approaching a mountain, in the beginning he sees a small hump;

then a large mountain, then details of trees, rocks etc on the mountain,

when a person's maturity of perception increases, he sees atman as

different from matter, realizes that the class of souls as distinct and

have unique properties by self realization, then realizes similarity of

different souls and similarity of God and soul.

 

why did God come here?... Note that even karmayoga or jnana yoga is

impossible without the help of GOD. For that matter even sense control is

impossible without trust in GOD and in a way surrender to GOD! - note the

verse in II chapter - "tani sarvani samyamya yukta asita matparah vase hi

yasyendriyani tasya prajna pratistita" - which means - " to get out of

cyclic dependency - " success in sense control is dependent on sight of

self and sight of self occurs only when senses are controlled" - One has

to meditate on Lord Krishna. Yamunacharya in gitartha samgraha says tribir

anyonya sangamaha - karma yoga, jnana yoga and bhaktiyoga, each of them

have an element of the other two!

 

That means that an aspirant does karmayoga and jnana yoga only after

learning the techniques by teachers and scripture - sruti vipratipanna te

yada stasyati nischala - chapter II. even before and while doing karmayoga

or jnanayoga, one is aware of GOD through srutis and God.

 

AFter attaining experience of similarity of souls and GOD, the aspirant

slowly finds out the unmistakable relation of GOD ensouling jiva jiva being

dependent on GOD. Note that if jiva just realizes the similarity of souls

(which include GOD, as another soul), then it will be just realization of a

limited aspect of truth. He then obviously think that why did he get into

matter if he were similar to GOD? atmapyanishah sukha duhka hetoh - this is

verse of from svetasvetara - even atma or self is not the boss, since self

got bound in matter. If it were the ruler, it would not have let itself be

bound in matter. Hence self realization cannot give complete satisfaction.

 

note in 3rd chapter, even while doing karmayoga, one does realize that this

karmayoga is to please GOD. to achieve success in karmayoga, one has to

rely on GOD's help. THis makes the aspirant realize his dependency on GOD.

Then he goes further and gets interested in meditating on GOD, seeing the

limitations of self. One could definitely get overwhelmed by the pristine

self. But However, Vedanta Desika contends that GOD who is all merciful

usually push such "self realised souls" to further levels by his mercy

taking a ruse of some devotion in that individual. Eventually he will

proceed to GOD realization. Note the verse from 5th chapter in the end,

"suhridam sarva bhutanam jnantva mam santim ricchati" - states "an

aspirant attains peace after knowing the friend of all - Lord Krishna".

This indicates that he is not completely peaceful in just self realization

and he attains peace only after knowing GOD. This inkling of interest in

GOD matures into - yoginam api sarvesam madgatena antaratmana sraddhavan

bhajate mam sa me yukta tamo matah - chapter 6 last verse. ie. the yogi

who meditates on vasudeva is of the highest order compared to "self

realization" type of yogis. Then the meditation of vasudeva opens up new

avenues to the aspirant and sees GOD as the immanent and transcendent all

powerful entity as explained in further chapters 7,8,.9 etc

 

 

QUESTION 2.

2. At many places in books related to Visistaadvaitha, i have come

across sentences like " The real nature

of the jivatman is to do kainkaryam to Narayana" and "The jiva

exists solely for the pleasure of the Lord".

Now what exactly do the two statements mean, taking the

ontological definitions of jiva and isvara in

Visistaadvaita vedanta into consideration.

 

Krishna Kalale ***********************

 

It means that " jiva " or jada are not independent entities. THeir very

existence is dependent on GOD; hence jiva and jada though eternal, their

nature, functions, properties etc are all willed by GOD for the purpose of

satisfying HIS plans or pleasures. Only limitations of knowledge is making

this jiva go after matter or self . If knowledge of jiva becomes pure and

infinite due to the mercy of lord, then it realizes that jiva does not

have anything else other than pleasing GOD serving HIM whole heartedly

with absolutely no selfish or any other agenda.

 

 

It is interesting that these questions strangely have been asked while

adiyen is dealing with these very issues in the bi-weekly bhagavadgita

tele-conference classes.

 

adiyen

 

krishna Kalale