Different States of jiva

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Sri:

Om Namo Narayanaya.

AzhvAr tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam; emberumAnAr tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam

dEsikan tiruvaDigaLE SaraNam:Sri Andavan tiruvaDigale saranam:

 

Respectful Bagavathas of this wonderful forum,

Please accept my most humble obeisance at all your feet.

I am a regular reader of this forum and i am slowly trying to understand the

Sri Ramanuja philosophy through all of your wonderful mails.

I never tried to ask a question because I don't know anything much

and I am in my learning phase. one of my friend who is much interested in

understanding our vedic knowledge has sent me this question to present to

all of you. I hope some of you can give answers to his question.

adiyen

Narasimha dasan

 

Question from my friend L.Harikumar.:

 

 

This question is from the Mandukya upanishad.It talks about four terms

visva,taijasa ,prajna and turiya. Sripada Sankara interprets them as the

four states of the jiva.Turiya is considered as the state of self

realisation(in which the jiva realises its identity with the Supreme

Brahman) and prajna as the deep sleep state,taijasa as the dream state

and visva as the waking state in which the jiva enjoys gross

objects.Here the turiya stage is interpreted to convey that the jiva

realises himself as the all pervading impersonal Brahman.

Sripada Madhvacharya interprets them as the four forms of God(Vishnu),

with names visva,taijasa,prajna and turiya,controlling the jivas in all

these states,by residing in four different parts of the body of the

living entity.In the Brahmopanishad, visva(jagrata) is said to be

located in the neck,taijasa (svapna)in the eye,prajna(sushupti) in the

heart and turiya in the brahmarandra(topmost protion of the

skull).Madhva quotes this as reference in his mandukyopanishad bhashya.

In the Narasimha uttaratapani upanishad also there is description of all

these stages and the mantras from the Mandukya upanishad are repeated

and it is said that the Turiya which conveys the Omkara is to be

realised.Here the four stages are respectively called as the

jagrata,svapna,sushupti and turiya respectively. As I'm not having the

commentary on these upanishads as per vishishtadvaitic point of view, I

humbly request the members of this forum to enlighten me in the above

questions regarding these four states by explaining the vishishtadvaita

coception of these four terms.I've come across a term in vishnu sahasranama

"chaturatma". Is there any connection between this name and

the four terms mentioned above?

Your humble servant,

L.Harikumar.

 

 

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SrI:

SrI Lakshminrusimha ParabrahmaNE namaha

SrI Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrIvaNN-

SatakOpa SrI nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESikAya namaha

 

Dear SrI Narasimhan and SrI Harikumar,

namO nArAyaNA.

> Question from my friend L.Harikumar.:

>

> This question is from the Mandukya upanishad.It talks about four terms

> visva,taijasa ,prajna and turiya. Sripada Sankara interprets them as the

> four states of the jiva.Turiya is considered as the state of self

> realisation(in which the jiva realises its identity with the Supreme

> Brahman) and prajna as the deep sleep state,taijasa as the dream state

> and visva as the waking state in which the jiva enjoys gross

> objects.Here the turiya stage is interpreted to convey that the jiva

> realises himself as the all pervading impersonal Brahman.

> Sripada Madhvacharya interprets them as the four forms of God(Vishnu),

> with names visva,taijasa,prajna and turiya,controlling the jivas in all

> these states,by residing in four different parts of the body of the

> living entity.In the Brahmopanishad, visva(jagrata) is said to be

> located in the neck,taijasa (svapna)in the eye,prajna(sushupti) in the

> heart and turiya in the brahmarandra(topmost protion of the

> skull).Madhva quotes this as reference in his mandukyopanishad bhashya.

> In the Narasimha uttaratapani upanishad also there is description of all

> these stages and the mantras from the Mandukya upanishad are repeated

> and it is said that the Turiya which conveys the Omkara is to be

> realised.Here the four stages are respectively called as the

> jagrata,svapna,sushupti and turiya respectively. As I'm not having the

> commentary on these upanishads as per vishishtadvaitic point of view, I

> humbly request the members of this forum to enlighten me in the above

> questions regarding these four states by explaining the vishishtadvaita

> coception of these four terms.

 

As such, adiyEn doesn't have the mANdUkya upanishad bAshya of

a SriVaishnava AchArya. But, "abhinava dESikan" Uttamoor T.

Veeraraghavacharya swAmi's "Upanishadartha Sangraha" <as the

name suggests> contains the gist / important messages of many

upanishads. It is composed of 220 sanskrit verses, for which Uttamoor

swAmi Himself has given a translation/ <brief> commentry in sanskrit

and tamizh.Verses 37 to 45 deals with mANdUkya upanishad.

 

Uttamoor swAmi's "vEdAnta pushpAnjali" is a stotram composed

on thirupathi SrInivasa PerumAL. It has 216 sanskrit verses,

in which Uttamoor swAmi takes upanishad after another <as flowers>

and by mentioning the cardinal messages of each upanishad,

salutes/worships the Parabrahman SrInivAsan as the one glorified in

all these upanishads. Uttamoor swAmi Himself has provided sanskrit

notes and its tamizh translation. Verses 22 to 26 of this work is

concerned with mANdUkya upanishad.

 

Since Uttamoor swAmi has packed many invaluable details in these

works, its better to read the originals with His blessings. These books

can be had from adiyEn's father Sri K.G.Krishnan at 11, Hasthigiri St,

West Mambalam, Chennai 600 033. Tel: 483 4676.

------------------------

Brief notes from these works for the question in hand:

 

jIvAtma has four states viz.jAgrat (waking) etc ; VaisvAnara (having

visva rUpa), taijasa etc refers to paramAtma mUrthIs presiding over

these states. The connection with pranava ( its four pAdAs linked with

these four mUrthIs etc) has to be learnt from an AchArya or at the least

from the original text. Upabrahmanas like Ahirbudhnya Samhita (51st

adhyAyam) and SrImad BhAgavatham (12.11.21-23) elaborates on

the fact that the words visva-taijasa-prAj~nya- turIya refers to

SrIman nArAyaNA alias Parabrahman in various forms. Someone

can kindly post the relevant translations from the SrImad BhAgavatham.

-------------------------

 

Current Villivalam Azhagiyasingar, in His RahasyatrayasAra Vivarnam,

( Tattvatraya chintanA adhikAram) explains very clearly about the

four mUrthIs in connection with the four states of jIvAtma.

This has been described in Ahirbudhnya samhita , Lakshmi tantra

and SAtvata Samhita as well. In SrI VaikuNTam, SrIman nArAyaNA

has taken a special form in the shape of a huge pillar ( ofcourse filled

with suddha sattvam) called ViSAkha yoopa alias Brahma yoopa.

It has four parts ( jAgratsthAna, svapnasthAna, sushupti sthAna and

turIya sthAna) with four vyUha forms ( vAsudEva, Sankarshana,

Pradyumna, Aniruddha) in each part. The activities, form, weapons

etc of the Lord in each of these parts are comparable to the four

stages of a upAsaka ( bhakti yOgi) viz.

a. preliminary stage with less meditation and no full control of the

external senses and mind ;

b. Next advanced stage with full control of the senses, but not

of the mind ;

c. Next advanced stage with full control of the senses and the

mind; but breaths in and out ;

d. Most advanced stage in which the yOgi is not even breathing

in and out ; He is like one in a swoon.

 

These four stages of a upAsaka is like the four states experienced

by normal human beings viz. jAgrat (waking state) , svapna (dream),

sushupti (deep dreamless sleep), turiya ie. swoon. This is just an

analogy given from our day to day experience, to understand

about the four stages of the upAsakAs, who constantly meditate

on SrIman nArAyaNA according to a Brahma vidya.

 

Azhagiyasingar explins these facts using the slokam composed

by bhattar in Sri RangarAjasthavam ( UttarakhAndam, 39) , which

in turn is cited by SwAmi dESikan in His Srimad Rahasyatraya sAram :

 

" O Lord Ranganatha ! Of those (upAsakAs) who meditate upon You,

some are like those in the waking state, some are like those dreaming

in their sleep ; some are like those sleeping without dreams ; some

are like those in a swoon. In the same way, O Lord, you have taken

four forms <in an analogy to these four states/stages> and divided

Yourself into four vyUha mUrthIs in each such forms <reference to

ViSAkha yoopa> for the purpose of meditation (upAsana), with

appropriate attributes ( difference in color etc) and weapons, suited

to each form"

 

note : BAdarAyana discusses the four states of a jIvAtma in chapter

three, section two of Brahma sUtrAs.

> I've come across a term in vishnu sahasranama

> "chaturatma". Is there any connection between this name and

> the four terms mentioned above?

 

The name "CaturAtmA" for Lord Vishnu, occurs in two

places in the Vishnu SahasranAmam.

 

1. 139th name :

( _caturAtmA_ caturvyUha: caturdamStra: caturbhujaha .....) :

 

Lord has four forms viz. vAsudEva, Sankarshana,

Pradyumna and aniruddha.

 

2. 775th name :

(_caturAtmA_ caturbhAvaha caturvEdavit yEkapAt)

 

Lord in the four forms ( corresponding to jAgrat, etc states)

reveals Himself to upAsakAs.

 

Hope this helps.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpaNam

[Guest guest]

Sri B. Narasimhan, a new member of our group, has posed

a question concerning the Mandukya Upanishad and its

meaning according to Visishtadvaita.

 

It is indeed a pleasure to have this question before us.

This Upanishad is likely to boggle the mind, no matter

what one's philosophical persuasion is. It is extremely

cryptic, as it is shorter than any other Upanishad. The entire

text can easily fit on one page; yet volumes have been written

about it by scholars over the years.

 

I want to first make a few brief comments, and then followup

in a later post with something more substantial.

 

a) As Sri Narasimhan and Sri Anand have mentioned, the

Mandukya refers to the four states of consciousness

of the self, and their corresponding relation

to the highest reality, Brahman.

 

The four states are:

 

a) awake -- when we are normally conscious

b) dreaming -- when we are conscious of things

in our dream

c) deep sleep -- when we are apparently

conscious of nothing

d) fourth (turIya) -- exact meaning is debated by

various philosophers, but generally

refers to moksha or moksha-like state

 

These four states are discussed several times in the

Upanishads and other texts.

 

[ Note: As Anand mentioned, the Pancaratra texts associate

four forms of Narayana with four states. However, in

some Pancaratra texts, the fourth state is taken to

be 'mUrchcha' or swooning, leaving moksha as yet

a further state not included in this classification.

 

These classification that includes 'mUrchcha' is

different and should _not_ be confused with the

Mandukya classification. I think Anand may have

done so; Sri Uttamur Swami himself writes,

"AtmA tAvat catushpAt sphuTabahiranubhUH suptisushvApa-

moksha-sthAnaH..." (Vedanta Pushpanjali) and

translates in Tamil that moksha is the fourth state. ]

 

The exact relation between these four states and Brahman is

what is debated by the different philosophical schools.

 

 

b) Ramanuja's position

-------------------

 

Since the Mandukya is not discussed by Badarayana in the

Brahma-Sutras, Ramanuja has not left us any direct thoughts

on the text. However, the Mandukya very closely parallels

a section of the jyotir-brAhmaNa of the Brhadaranyaka Upanishad.

In fact, some have held that the key to understanding the

Mandukya is first understanding the jyotir-brAhmaNa. Ramanuja

has left some thoughts on this text and we can draw parallels

therefrom.

 

c) Post-Ramanuja commentators

--------------------------

 

Since Ramanuja did not author any direct commentaries

on the Upanishads, and the works of earlier Visishtadvaita

philosophers such as Tanka and Dramida were no longer

extant, it was left to later acharyas to explain the

Upanishads word for word.

 

Vedanta Desika would have been ideally suited for the task,

but for reason not quite clear, he chose to comment only

on the Isa Upanishad.

 

We do however have two Visishtadvaita commentaries on the

Mandukya by outstanding scholars. The first is by Kuranarayana

Muni, grandson (?) of the legendary Kurattalvan. The second

is by Ranga Ramanujacharya (16th century), who wrote commentaries

on all the principal Upanishads and is therefore known as

"Upanishad Bhashyakara" in our sampradAya. These two

commentaries differ here and there, but their overall trend is

the same.

 

 

I will elaborate further based on what little I know in a

future post.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mani

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SrI:

SrI Lakshminrusimha ParabrahmaNE namaha

SrI Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrIvaNN-

SatakOpa SrI nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESikAya namaha

 

Dear SrI Mani,

namO nArAyaNA.

>

> These classification that includes 'mUrchcha' is

> different and should _not_ be confused with the

> Mandukya classification. I think Anand may have

> done so; Sri Uttamur Swami himself writes,

> "AtmA tAvat catushpAt sphuTabahiranubhUH suptisushvApa-

> moksha-sthAnaH..." (Vedanta Pushpanjali) and

> translates in Tamil that moksha is the fourth state. ]

 

Thanks for your clarification. This is one of the points which

adiyEn didn't mention clearly. Since there were so many intricate

details, adiyEn just gave a brief notes from the works of

Uttamoor swAmi and referred to His original texts for those

who want to know more precisely. But, adiyEn then moved

onto the description of ViSAkha yoopa and its connection

with caturAtma.

 

adiyEn doesn't have the bAshya on mANdUkya Upanishad and

hence couldn't get hold of the exact philosophical problem in hand

and its relationship with the question posed. adiyEn merely

touched upon some of the things from Uttamoor swAmi's works

on this issue.

 

Thanks once again for pointing out the actual crux of the

question. Awaiting your future posts on this thread.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpaNam