material pursuits

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Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namah:

 

Dearest Sisters and Brothers,

 

Sri Ravi Desikan, (A nice name!) wrote:

====

Unlike most other religions,sanatana dharma or the vedic religion,enjoins

one to live life with due emphasis on dharma ,artha and kama leading to

liberation or moksha

====

A good post from you! But your nicely intended writings may

be construed /misunderstood by lowly selves like myself, that here's a

Bhagawatha, who has asked me to go right ahead in pursuing material and

sensual pleasures; Let me jump into it happily.. NO! That's not you

intended, I guess.

 

As you rightly said: "the objective of this life is to live,enjoy all the

glorious things of life as enjoined in the karma kaanda of the vedas,go

through all the ashramaas the brahmacharya,the gruhasthasrama,the

vaanaprastha and finally the sanyasa

asramaa".

 

BUT... we don't go to the higher ashramam at all. Even while we are

performing "Gruhasthaashramam"?, (that too,.... wrongly..., against

saasthraas) and till death, we do that alone...How many of us

(except for few Great mahaans) go to even Vaanaprastham stage?

Though it is not necessary to take up sanyaasam, (like Swami Desikan),

BUT...Swami lived like a recluse with such Vairagyam... When he recited Sri

sthuthi, there is a heavy down pour of Gold coins, and he told that Brahma

chari boy "ambi! evLO vENumO edutthukkO.." (Whavever you need, take them..

").he simply walked off.. when he himself was poor (materially..), he

was not at all tempted.. How great is He!

 

Your mentioning of Dharma, artha, kaama, mOksham reminded me of

Ramanuja NooRRandhaadhi of Amudhanaar..(40th Pasuram!)

 

chEmanNal veetum poruLum tharumamum cheeriyan^aR

kaamamum enRivai naan_genpar; naan_ginum kaNNanukkE

aamathu kaamam aRamporuL veetuthaR kenRuraiththaan

vaamanan cheelan iraamaa Nnuchanintha maNmichaiyE

 

Emperumaanaar- Sri Ramanujacharya- whose qualities are only

equal to the Lord Vamanan, preached the world with great truthful, Vedic

philosophy without their even asking for it. He is so merciful. Moksham,

Dharmam, artham, and kaamam, are the four goals of life; so they say. But

Yathiraajaa, a celibate like Vaamanan, says Kaamam (Desire) for union with

KaNNan is the only worthy goal; The other three are just to support this

divine passion. Dharmam removes the sins that stand as a hurdle for this

kaamam. Artham is used for giving alms and thus aids for going towards the

goal. MOksham also aggravates the longing (Kaamam) for KaNNan. Thus, Kaamam

(for KaNNan) is the Best.(What an enjoyment of YathirAjar’s greatness by

Amudhanaar!.)

 

WE NEED MATERIALS, We NEED SENSES, WE NEED AAYUSH, AROGYAM-

all for SINGING, TALKING, PRAISING HIS NAME AND GLORY...

 

When we are married, have children, eran money, - all that we can do is: to

talk about Sriman Narayanan, AchAryAs, their glories, their greatness, to

our wife, our children, pray together, set an example to them (at least by

posing outwardly..) and allocate some money (again 5% at least of our

income) to any or all Kaimkaryams that we come to know !!)

 

again my another two cents worth..

 

Regards

 

Narayana Narayana

 

Narayana dAsan

 

 

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Sri Venkata Gurave Nama:

 

Dear friends,

 

I was not reading the bakthi mails last week as i was not in my desk.

I am very happy to see the question of Sri.Mani and the good responses from

our beloved members on the topic of Accuumulation of wealth.

 

I fully agree with Sri.Mani that accumulation of wealth even for a prapanna

is important in the current world.

 

we can trace back this situation to industrial revolution and the fallout of

varnasrama Dharma.

 

as per varnasrama dhrama a brahmin is not suppose to store any thing for the

next day. he should be interested only in learning,advising and teaching

others while upholding his dharma.

 

what is the situation now? even for a small ritual like conducting a Homam

or upnayanam, you have to save some money(atleast our middle class

bretheren) and spend. during olden ages, it was society which took care of

acharya's material needs and acharyas took care of sishyas philospical

needs.

 

Sri ManavalaMamuni says this well in Upadesa Ratnamalai that

"Sishyas look after acharyan's Body, while Acharyan looks after Sishya's

Atma"

 

after the advent of industrial revolution and mass production, whole things

changed. and any change is for good.

 

with this changed envirnoment, what we could adopt is that a prapanna should

accumulate wealth not out of avarice but to accumulate wealth for nitya

kaikaryam to emperuman.

 

this does not mean that you should not care of social obligations like

children's education needs, marriage, rituals etc. Go for money for all

this. perform all this obligations. then at some moment of time, you should

draw a line and start concentrating on the kaimkaryam.

 

of course, the money what you have so far accumulated will come handy in

managing some situations like buying a house in a divya desam at premium

price, or to take care of food and shelter expenses when you are in

kaikaryam and not in gainful employment.

 

this is what i perceive as to how a prpanna should react(not act) to the

challenging moderen times.

 

I welcome opinions on the above. i am sorry for related response.

 

regards

 

K.M.Narayanan

Hyderabad.

 

 

 

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srimathe ramanujaya namaha

srimathe thuppul vedantha desikaya namaha

srimathe srivan satakopa sriman narayana yateendra mahadesikaya namaha

 

 

lakshmi natha samaarambaam naada-yamuna madhyamaam

asmath acharya paryanthaam vandhe guru paramparaam

 

Dear bhagavathas,

 

 

I would like to respond to topic on material pursuits.

 

Unlike most other religions,sanatana dharma or the vedic religion,enjoins

one to live life with due emphasis on dharma ,artha and kama leading to

liberation or moksha.That is why the author of the "kama sutra" is venerated

as a maharishi.

 

In our own visishtadwaita, our beloved udayavar has enunciated that the

doctrine of visishtadwaita culminates in "naayaka naayaki" bhava,where

the whole world and its inhabitants are emberumaan's "naayakis" and

purushotomma,the one and only purusha is srimannarayana.Don't we find that

sriRama and srimathi sita devi exhibiting eternal love for each other in the

words of sriman valmiki "bhabuva drihtvaa vaidehi bhartaaram parishasvaje"

 

so, the objective of this life is to live,enjoy all the glorious things of

life as enjoined in the karma kaanda of the vedas,go through all the ashramaas

the brahmacharya,the gruhasthasrama,the vaanaprastha and finally the sanyasa

asramaa.

 

The medaa sukthaam,for instance prays that one should live in bounty,full of

prosperity.Only,the wealth ,prosperity earned through rightful and noble means

in accordance with the dharma sastraas,should be given in plenty as "dhaanam"

to the lesser priveleged in society.

 

would a citizen of ayodhya during ramarajya,yearned for "vaikuntam" ?Did not

swami desikan say that he would eternally be a nithyasuuri at perarulalan

sannidhi than be a nithya suuri at srivaikuntam.(tat visnoh paramam padagum

sada pasyanthi suruyaha).

 

Ofcourse,our brilliant acharya-sage,philospher ,poet above all "nammudayavar"

has given us the unparalleled path of "saranagati".One does

saranagati,whatever

be his status/order/gender in life.After prapatti,one feels that he is free of

this material bondage and still can keep living in this material world because

the prapanna is sure that he has surrendered everything to his acharya,who

in turn is chained to

udayavar-alvandar-uyyakkondaar-naadamunigal-nammazhwar-vishvaksenar-sri-srip

athi.Nothing can go wrong in this illustrious and irrevocable and luminous

list of acharya-guru-sishya parampara.

 

so let us live in this material world,keeping in ming the path tread by our

illustrious acharyaas in the parampara.

 

srimathe ramanujaya namaha..

 

 

regards and love

ravi desikan

 

 

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SrI:

SrI Lakshminrusimha ParabrahmaNE namaha

SrI Lakshminrusimha divya pAdukA sEvaka SrIvaN-

SatakOpa SrI nArAyaNa yateendra mahAdESikAya namaha

 

Dear Sri Ravi,

namO nArAyaNA.

 

Thanks for your note ; Already, some devotees have kindly

responded to this; adiyEn would like to add few more words

on this discussion topic (though not directly related to the

actual question raised by Sri Mani) .....

> Sri Ravi wrote :

> In our own visishtadwaita, our beloved udayavar has enunciated that the

> doctrine of visishtadwaita culminates in "naayaka naayaki" bhava,where

> the whole world and its inhabitants are emberumaan's "naayakis" and

> purushotomma,the one and only purusha is srimannarayana.Don't we find that

> sriRama and srimathi sita devi exhibiting eternal love for each other in the

> words of sriman valmiki "bhabuva drihtvaa vaidehi bhartaaram parishasvaje"

 

nAyikA bhAvam from a jIvAtmA wrt paramAtmA is the realization

of the "sarIra-bhAvam".

 

vEdAnta teaches us that, jIvAtmA is inseparably

united with ParamAtma, as an attribute to its substratum (ie.

just like the redness of a rose is an inseparable attribute

of the flower ; ie. the existence of redness on its own,

independent of the flower is not there ; it is fully dependent

on its substratum supporting it for its existence; similarly,

jIvAtma does not have its independent existence). vEdAnta

gives us insights that a jIvAtma is fully supported and controlled

by SrIman nArAyaNA and it exists solely for the pleasure of

SrIman nArAyaNA. This sarIra-sarIri bhAvam between the jIvAtma and

the Brahman leads to the fact that jIvAtma is an inseparable attribute

of Brahman. The nAyakA-nAyaki bhAva is used to experience this

constitutional position putforth in vEdAnta for a jIvAtma in

relation with the Supreme Lord SrIman nArAyaNA. jIvAtma being

an inseparable attribute for SrIman nArAyaNA is technically

called as "apruthak siddha" visESana(ie. inseparable relationship) to

Brahman. This apruthak siddha between the jIvAtma and PerumAL arises

from the sarIra-sarIri bhAva between them (supporter-supported ;

controller-controlled ; enjoyer -being enjoyed ). Thus, the

very existence of a jIvAtma is because of the support provided

by PerumAL (ie. just like how this body perishes if the

jIvAtma gets out of it , jIvAtma's existence has no meaning

without the support given by PerumAL ; This support by PerumAL

is given through His divyAtma-svaroopa, which is all pervading;

PerumAL through His sankalpam does the "controlling" of jIvAtma.

This is discussed in SwAmi dESikan's "tattva muktA kalApa" ).

Thus, devotion to PerumAL is a very natural propensity of a

jIvAtmA, being grounded in its very intrinsic internal

relationship with PerumAL as an inseparable attribute. Thus, a baddha

jIvAtmA's deep longing to fully comprehend/realize the sarIra-sarIri

bhAva / apruthak siddha visESana is very natural and infact, the

depth of devotion/intense love for PerumAL,the sarIri, becomes very

natural. This is the very important point to be noted as Dwaitins does

not accept jIvAtma as an inseparable attribute of Brahman. For

Dwaitins,

jIvAtma is separate and Brahman is separate ; the jIvAtmAs have the

external relationship with Brahman as its master ; So a jIvAtma has

to know that external relationship and perform devotion.

 

nAyaki bhAva is very appropriate to experience the relationship

between a jIvAtma and PerumAL ( a female having greatest longing

for her support viz. lover; she can't exist without him; she fully

makes herself being controlled by her lover ; she just accepts to

do whatever is pleasing to her husband/lover ; females < esp. of the

past, in India > genarally have these qualities inherent in them ;

they in general feel very happy in pleasing/serving others; These are

used to experience that relationship between jIvAtmA and PerumAL ).

Through nAyaki bhAva, one can bring out more of one's emotions etc to

get engaged in bhagavad anubhavam and in the realization of one's

relationship with PerumAL. There is nothing erotic to feel about; It

is the convertion of a mundane love in materialistic plane to

that of spiritual plane and this conversion is glorious in itself,

because of the unique anubhava it provides in realizing one's

sarIra-sarIri relationship with PerumAL. Its always good to understand

the implications of these things from vEdAnta, instead of simply

getting carried away by "mere" emotion. Our AchAryAs have commented

_extensively_ on these issues and from "bhagavad vishaya" kAlakshEbam

one can understand lots and lots more on this issue by the

blessings of a SadAchArya.

 

Also, this nAyaki bhAvam is very esoteric in nature and not to

be considered as something ordinary. Only highly pure and exalted

souls can experience such divine bhAva, with the fundamental

knowledge of the sarIra-sarIri bhAvam. Sexual pleasure gives the

higest mundane pleasure ; But when one places SrIman nArAyaNa in that

sthAna of a husband, one becomes completely pure and is not

attached to materialistic pleasures. Thus, only such great souls

can possibly experience nAyaki bhAva in its proper sense. Infact,

our AchAryAs have given such an exalted status to the nAyaki bhAva

that, they haven't composed such pAsurams/stotrams (only very rare).

This is to give the exalted status to the anubhavams of AzhwArs

(otherwise x and y will start writing stotrams/pAsurams in nAyaki

bhAva, as though they are experiencing it properly).

 

> so, the objective of this life is to live,enjoy all the glorious things of

> life as enjoined in the karma kaanda of the vedas,go through all the ashramaas

> the brahmacharya,the gruhasthasrama,the vaanaprastha and finally the sanyasa

> asramaa.

 

The objective of life is to serve the divya dampati SrIman nArAyaNA

uninterruptedly ( "kainkaryam" is the goal). If one has such a desire

for kainkaryam, there is no other alternative other than to be in

SriVaikuNTham, since the design of PerumAL is like that (ie. One can't

aspire for uninterrupted kainkaryam and simultaneously be in this

material world without crossing viraja river; as long as one has this

prakruti sambandha, uninterrupted kainkaryam/bhagavad anubhavam is not

possible). For this purushArtan to get realized, one has to look into

sAstrAs for the "hitam" (ie. means to attain the purushArtam). sAstrAs

teaches us that one can attain that uninterrupted kainkaryam/Bhagavad

anubhavam by completing either Bhakti yOga(upAsana) Or Prapatti Yoga

(nyAsa vidya / SaraNAgathi).

 

Thus, SwAmi dESikan explains that, if one has Akinchanya (bereft of

all qualifications to pursue bhakti yOga / jn~Ana yOga / karma yOga)

and ananyagatitva (no other refuge other than SrIman nArAyaNA), one is

fit for prapatti and by its adoption by completing the five angAs and

the angIs as a sAdhyOpAya, the most most merciful SrIman nArAyaNA, the

SiddhOpAya does a miracle of the greatest order due to His abundant

grace (+ most impotantly by the purushakAratvam of utmost merciful

pirAtti) and the divya dampati together as SaraNAgatha VatsalAs makes

the sankalpam to grant moksham on the time seeked by the mumukshu.

 

Thus, the Ashrama one is in, is irrelevant for a mumukshu to adopt the

"hitam" and attain the purushArtam. sannyAsa Ashrama has its own

glories and gruhastAshrama (when properly followed) has its own

glories. It is not a must that one has to finally take up sannyAsam

to attain the purushArtam of moksham ie. uninterrupted kainkaryam.

 

vEdic passages do occur, which say that sannyAsa is required to attain

moksham. advaitins take it be as sannyAsa-Ashrama and thus, for

them, sannyAsa-Ashrama is a must for to obtain their concept of

moksham viz. realization of nirvisEsha Brahman as everything.

But our AchAryAs have interpreted it appropriately and beautifully

that, sannyAsa here actually refers to the nyAsa vidya viz.

prapatti. SrI nadAdUr ammAL in His Prapanna pArijAta discusses

about this. Hitam only leads to the attainment of the purushArtam

viz. moksham. Thus, sannyAsa as the Brahma vidya of prapatti to

attain moksham is the actual implication of the Sruti ; the

sannyAsa-Ashrama by itself is "not" a Brahma Vidya (ie. not a

hitam).

 

Sri Bharat has already explained well the relationship between the

karma khAnda and jn~Ana khAnda portions of vEdAs. Even in the archives

such things are there posted by other devotees. yaj~nAs prescibed

in the Karma kAnda section of vEdAs when done with the aim of

achieving the (materialistic) fruit associated with it ( eg:

putrakAmEshti yAgam to obtain children), then it is not karma yOga.

A karma yOgi can perform the same putrakAmEshti yAgam with sAthvIka

tyAgam, purely as an ArAdhana to SrIman nArAyaNA, the Parabrahman

( without any materialistic motive). In this case, the mantrAs

associated with the putrakAmEShti yAgam are used to perform the

ArAdhanam. This acts as a sAdhana for him to attain moksham (through

the development of bhakti yOgam). Ofcourse, a prapanna can also

perform a putrakAmEShti yAgam , purely as an ArAdhanam to PerumAL

and here, the motive is not to attain moksham also (but just for

bhagavad anubhavam/ SrIman nArAyaNa preethartham). Thus, yaj~nAs

prescribed in the karma kAndam are not irrevelant at all.

 

AzhwAr, yemperumAnAr, dESikan, Azhagiyasingar thiruvadigaLE SaraNam

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

ananthapadmanAbha dAsan

krishNArpaNam

[Guest guest]

Anand Karalapakkam wrote:

> Infact,

> our AchAryAs have given such an exalted status to the nAyaki bhAva

> that, they haven't composed such pAsurams/stotrams (only very rare).

 

I don't know if Anand includes this in his "very rare" category,

but much of Vedanta Desika's Tamil works contain the nAyikA bhAvam.

(By the way, the term most used is "_nAyikA_ bhAvam", not "nAyaki".)

The mummaNikkOvai on Devanayaka PerumaaL of Tiruvahindrapuram is

a perfect example:

 

The God of Love will shower a rain of flower-tipped

arrows from his charming bow

of sugar-cane

 

at that tender girl who longs for the soft feet

of the God of Truth:

 

Mercy gushes

from his side-long glances.

 

He stands here, a sea of sweet nectar,

saying to those who long

to plunge into him: "Come, dive deep!"

 

He has come to Tiruvahindrapuram,

where those who speak speak

only the essence

of the three

Vedas

 

-- Mummanikkovai 3, translated by Stephen Hopkins

 

It is assumed that Desika (Venkatanatha) himself plays the lovelorn

girl in these poems, so the commentators call her "Venkata Nayaki".

Some of Desika's Sanskrit stotras also contain a quite a bit of

SringAra-rasa (erotic sentiment). Interestingly, most of his SringAra

is directed towards Devanayakan.

 

I am sure other acharyas have also explored this sentiment, perhaps

to a lesser extent. This needs to be studied a little more.

 

In short, I don't think our acharyas, many of whom had great anubhavam

of their own, consciously avoided the nAyikA bhAvam. In fact, how *can*

one avoid it, when one things of PerumaaL?

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

Thumbs up! What an excellent topic. Everyone can relate to

it yet it is not likely it will create a frenzied discussion that can end

only in a stalemate.

 

I would like to submit a thought to the discussion. Is it

possible that the issue is not so much How much money/wealth we amass But

rather when, if ever, we are satisfied? I think when we seek to provide for

ourselves and our family, sometimes we create a burden not of wealth but of

envy and competition. You are happy with what you have until someone you

perceive as having "more" or "better" moves in next door. This does not just

have to be about money and cars. It can also be about "I go to the temple

this many times and do puja every day. "oh how nice I do as well AND I have

a priest come to my house once a year to do Satyanarayana Puja" and it goes

on and on.

 

It gets worse when people increase the sphere of this

competition. it is really painful when people discuss their children as if

they were commodities. How much this one makes. How that one is a

valedictorian and violin prodigy who just won the Science fair and you are

so proud until a new family moves in and their child is all of the above and

recites shlokas in Sanskrit. Now your kid is taking swimming and Hinduism

classes at the university gifted program just to keep up.

 

Do you know what I mean? What do you think? Is this too much

of a tangential topic?