QUIZ REGARDING : SrI acyuta Satakam - Part 4.

[Guest guest]

Sri Narasimhan Krishnamachari has written wonderfully on Achyuta shatakam.

If one reads the article with interest, one can find that the very essence

of the vedas, gita and vedantasutras are woven in the devotional

outpourings of our great acharya Sri Vedanta Desika.

 

 

Adiyen wanted to ask a QUIZ on the following paragraph written by sri

Narasimhan Krishnamachari :

 

Because He is both the prakRti and the jIva from which everything is

created, He is the material cause of this Universe - upAdAna kAraNa;

because He is the Creator of everything, He is also the instrumental

cause of everything - nimitta kAraNa. He is like both the clay that is

used to make the pot and the pot maker that makes the pot. Everything

that exists e.g., the pot, has two such as causes for their existence,

and these two are never the same. BhagavAn is the only exception and

wonder who happens to be both the upAdAna kAraNam and nimitta kAraNam

simultaneoulsy for creating a given object or being (Slokam 12)

 

 

[Krishna Kalale] The quiz is as follows:

 

IF God is both the nimitta and upadana karana He is both the pot and the

potter. He is the created and the created!! If so He himself becomes

this universe after creation.

 

a) If so how is it different from the school of bhaskara "bhedabhedavada"

?

b) how is it different from the school of Yadavaprakasa which also admits

bhedabhedavada ?

c) what is the difference between advaita and visistadvaita regarding the

"abhinna nimittopadana karanatva"( or the aspect that HE is both the

created and the creator?)

 

Please note that this is just to create interest in the readers. THis is

not to show off that adiyen knows the answer. Adiyen only knows how to ask

questions stupid or reasonable!

adiyen Krishna

[Krishna Kalale]

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends:

 

There are two sets of questions (one set by SrI KalAlE and the other by

SrI Ve'nkaTssh ELayavalli), that have been posed as a result of my

feeble attempt to present the thoughts that I pretended to have

understood about upAdAna and nimitta kAraNa-s, about prakRti and jIva,

etc. from svAmi deSikan's devine work. Since SrI Ve'nkaTesh's

questions were not distributed in the bhakti mail, I am including them

here so that others can ponder over this philosophical discussion as

well.

 

I only would like to share my ignorance here in public: When the

statement is made that bhagavAn is both the Creator and the Created,

there are two ways of interpreting this statement. One is that of

identity and the other that the Created exists and functions only

because of the Will of the Creator, and the two are different in the

sense of Sesha-Seshitvam relationship. Therefore the antaryAmi in the

created is being implied by the statement that the created is nothing

but the Creator, i.e., the created is non-existent except for the Will

of the Creator, and this is what is meant by the statement that they

are the same. I believe this is the difference between some of the

views. I am not aware of the specifics of the two view points that SrI

KaLAle has given and I am fully aware that what I have put forth is

half-baked knowledge that I have boldly ventured in public, and I am

looking forward to the authentic interpretations of our AcArya-s that I

am sure the learned members will share with us.

 

Regarding SrI Elayavalli's question, my simple mind is able to see the

two statements as related. The first statement to me seems to say that

bhagavAn is the upAdAna kAraNa (i.e., in the absence of Him nothing

exists), and the second seems to say that He is nimitta kAraNa (i.e.,

without Him nothing functions).

 

I am blessed with absolute ignorance which I have in abundance, and so

I am blind enough not to be able to see the subtle difference between

these different points. I look forward to the real answers to these

beatiful questions that the learned members have posed for our benefit.

 

om namo nArAyaNAya

dAsan kRshNamAcAryan

 

 

[Krishna Kalale] The quiz is as follows:

 

IF God is both the nimitta and upadana karana He is both the pot and

the

potter. He is the created and the created!! If so He himself becomes

 

this universe after creation.

 

a) If so how is it different from the school of bhaskara

"bhedabhedavada"

?

b) how is it different from the school of Yadavaprakasa which also

admits

bhedabhedavada ?

c) what is the difference between advaita and visistadvaita regarding

the

"abhinna nimittopadana karanatva"( or the aspect that HE is both the

created and the creator?)

 

Please note that this is just to create interest in the readers. THis

is

not to show off that adiyen knows the answer. Adiyen only knows how to

ask

questions stupid or reasonable!

adiyen Krishna

[Krishna Kalale]

 

 

 

Note: forwarded message attached.

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

"Venkatesh Elayavalli" elayavalli

kkalale1

Cc: champakam, mani

Re: QUIZ REGARDING : SrI acyuta Satakam - Part 4.

Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:57:45 PDT

Dear Sri Krishnamachari Uncle,Sri Krishna Kalale and Sri Mani

>Because He is both the prakRti and the jIva from which everything is

>created, He is the material cause of this Universe - upAdAna kAraNa;

>because He is the Creator of everything, He is also the instrumental

>cause of everything - nimitta kAraNa.

 

What is the diff between the statements

"you are both the prakRti and the Jiva"

and

"you have both prakRti and Jiva as your body"

 

The latter is in one of the translations forthe specific

sloka.

 

It appears to me that there is a significant diff between

the two statements. The latter statement seems to follow

Alavandar/Ramanuja's theory. Can one of you please clarify.

 

thanks

 

Adiyen

 

 

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