Guest guest Posted October 25, 1999 Report Share Posted October 25, 1999 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya Namah: The first one gets a better birth (may be in a devoted ardent srivaishnva family) The second one gets mOksham (because he fits into adiyEn's category.) Short duration is for everyone. Because for time immemorial, we have been committing sins, and that is why we are what we are still drowning here. It is His grace for any stroke of luck for bhakti or any inclination towards Sriya: Pathi Regards Narayana Narayana > > Sheshadri Ranganathan [sMTP:sheshadri_ranganathan] > Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:15 AM > bhakti > a small clarification > > Dear Bhagavatas, > > I had a question which was troubling me. > > Which one of the two souls below is assured of liberation at the end of > its > current life? Which one is on the right track? > 1. A soul in its current life has done all the good and has been > following, > throughout its current life, a theistic approach other than the Sri > Vaishnavism and has surrendered itself completely to the Lord ( apersonal > God) with atmost love towards HIM and strongly believes that his Lord is > the > one who grants him liberation and has not heard of our Sriman Narayana who > > alone can bestow this. > 2. A soul which in its current life has commited sins throuhgout its life > and almost at the end of its current life, by a stroke of luck ( as > opposed > to the one mentioned earlier, which was unlucky in this respect) has > turned > towards SriVaishnavism and later leads the life of a prapanna for a short > duration (after the pancha samskaram). > > regards, > Sheshadri > > ____ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 1999 Report Share Posted October 25, 1999 Dear Seshadri, I have thought about this question for a long time. There are many who will say that unless you follow *exactly* the conception of God and religion *they* have in their mind, you are lost. I do not and cannot hold such an opinion. How can we limit in what form Sriman Narayana will appear to other devotees, in their minds? If I may put an Alvar paasuram to use, Poykai Alvar says, "whatever form His devotee desires, He takes that form; with whatever name form His devotee addresses Him, He takes that name..." (thamar ugandtha thevvuruvam avvuruvam thaanE, thamar ugandha theppEr maRRappEr... -- mudhal thiruvandhaadi 44) (I have heard this opinion held by great Sri Vaishnava scholars as well). I interpret this very broadly. If one approaches God in all sincerity, will a few mistakes in his conception invalidate his worship? I doubt it. It is repeatedly declared that the Lord is easily approachable (parivadhil eesanaip paadi...). So, while according to doctrine, supreme liberation may not be assured, as it is if one surrenders to Sriman Narayana as conceived of by our scriptures, I cannot rule out the merciful Lord from granting liberation to whomever *He* sees fit. After all, He is 'nirankusa-svatantran', isn't He? In fact, I believe either a good birth or liberation itself is assured for the first person. The second person, if he has taken refuge with the Lord, is undoubtedly destined for liberation. This is a result of the mysterious grace of the Lord, who is 'anAlocita-visesha-asesha- loka-SaraNya' -- the Refuge of all, Who does not investigate one's past history of sins, etc., if you surrender to Him. If the Lord only saved virtuous people, of what use is His grace? As to who is on the right track, if both people below are exactly as you describe, it looks like they are both headed in the right direction. daasan, Mani Sri Seshadri asks: > Which one of the two souls below is assured of liberation at the end of its > current life? Which one is on the right track? > 1. A soul in its current life has done all the good and has been following, > throughout its current life, a theistic approach other than the Sri > Vaishnavism and has surrendered itself completely to the Lord ( apersonal > God) with atmost love towards HIM and strongly believes that his Lord is the > one who grants him liberation and has not heard of our Sriman Narayana who > alone can bestow this. > 2. A soul which in its current life has commited sins throuhgout its life > and almost at the end of its current life, by a stroke of luck ( as opposed > to the one mentioned earlier, which was unlucky in this respect) has turned > towards SriVaishnavism and later leads the life of a prapanna for a short > duration (after the pancha samskaram). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 1999 Report Share Posted October 26, 1999 Note for Sri.Sheshadri Ranganathan: Re: Your question which type of person will be liberated, I think both will be liberated. The best answers to your questions may be lying in 3 stanzas (30-32) of the 9th chapter of the Bhagavath-Gita where Bhagawan SriKrishna paramAtmA tells Arjuna: "api chEthsudarAcharO BhajathE mAmanannyaBhAk I SADhurEva sa manthavyaha samyagavyavasitO hi saha I" "Even if the most sinful man worships Me with undivided devotion he must be regarded as holy, for he has rightly resolved." (In the "gitAbhashya" udayavar clearly states that such a person (sinful though he may be and irrespective of his birth or position in life, now or previous births) is deemed as worshipper of Vishnu (i.e. SriVaishnavan). Why so? The reason is because he has rightly resolved and he is on the right direction in life.) Krishna also says: "kshipram bhavati dharmAtmA shasvacchAntim nigacchati I kountEya pratijAneehi na may bhaktaha praNashyati II "Such a person quickly (in this life itself, why talk about the next one?) becomes righteous and obtains lasting peace. Affirm on my behalf, Arjuna, my devotee will never perish." (Here bhagawan makes it abundantly clear that His devotee will never come to grief even though he may have been or may be tarnished by some misconduct in the past.) Sri.Krishna finally proclaims, firmly and categorically: "mAm hi pArtha vyapAsrithya yE'api syu: pApayOneyaha I striyO vaishyAstathA shudrAstE'api yAnti parAm gatim II "By taking refuge in me even men of low or evil birth attain the supreme state." By the above adiyen feels that both type of persons you mention in your question will surely attain liberation. dAsan, Sampathkumaran ===== Bid and sell for free at http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Mani Varadarajan wrote: > > Dear Seshadri, > > I have thought about this question for a long time. > There are many who will say that unless you follow > *exactly* the conception of God and religion *they* have > in their mind, you are lost. I do not and cannot > hold such an opinion. > > How can we limit in what form Sriman Narayana will > appear to other devotees, in their minds? > If I may put an Alvar paasuram to use, Poykai Alvar > says, "whatever form His devotee desires, He takes > that form; with whatever name form His devotee > addresses Him, He takes that name..." (thamar ugandtha > thevvuruvam avvuruvam thaanE, thamar ugandha theppEr > maRRappEr... -- mudhal thiruvandhaadi 44) > > (I have heard this opinion held by great Sri Vaishnava > scholars as well). > > I interpret this very broadly. If one approaches God > in all sincerity, will a few mistakes in his conception > invalidate his worship? I doubt it. It is repeatedly > declared that the Lord is easily approachable (parivadhil > eesanaip paadi...). Krishna says in Bhagavadgita: Aham Tvam SARVAPAPEBHYA moksha....Ma suchah So, We need not worry. If we take his shelter we are ALWAYS SAFE. hare Krishna Rajiv > > So, while according to doctrine, supreme liberation may > not be assured, as it is if one surrenders to Sriman Narayana > as conceived of by our scriptures, I cannot rule out the > merciful Lord from granting liberation to whomever *He* > sees fit. After all, He is 'nirankusa-svatantran', isn't He? > In fact, I believe either a good birth or liberation itself > is assured for the first person. > > The second person, if he has taken refuge with the Lord, > is undoubtedly destined for liberation. This is a result of > the mysterious grace of the Lord, who is 'anAlocita-visesha-asesha- > loka-SaraNya' -- the Refuge of all, Who does not investigate > one's past history of sins, etc., if you surrender to Him. > > If the Lord only saved virtuous people, of what use is His grace? > > As to who is on the right track, if both people below are exactly > as you describe, it looks like they are both headed in the > right direction. > > daasan, > Mani > > Sri Seshadri asks: > > Which one of the two souls below is assured of liberation at the end of its > > current life? Which one is on the right track? > > > 1. A soul in its current life has done all the good and has been following, > > throughout its current life, a theistic approach other than the Sri > > Vaishnavism and has surrendered itself completely to the Lord ( apersonal > > God) with atmost love towards HIM and strongly believes that his Lord is the > > one who grants him liberation and has not heard of our Sriman Narayana who > > alone can bestow this. > > > 2. A soul which in its current life has commited sins throuhgout its life > > and almost at the end of its current life, by a stroke of luck ( as opposed > > to the one mentioned earlier, which was unlucky in this respect) has turned > > towards SriVaishnavism and later leads the life of a prapanna for a short > > duration (after the pancha samskaram). > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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