Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Dear members, Although this subject adiyen is now posting on is not directly connected to SriVaishnavism still it has some indirect relation. So adiyen is making the following inquiry to all of you just to get your general and valuable opinions: This morning adiyen read the following headlines from the "HIndu": "With his very first public statement - an entry in the Visitor's Book kept at Rajghat - on Saturday morning, Pope John Paul II set the tone for what he was to say during his short visit to India which concluded this morning. In the Visitor's Book, the 79-year-old pontiff had penned down a line from Mahatma Gandhi:``A culture cannot survive if it attempts to be exclusive.'' What he went on to say in the three speeches he was to make subsequently was primarily an elaboration of this thought on the religious front. While the Pope has primarily reiterated the established position of the Church in all his speeches, his statement, ``May the Third Christian Millennium witness a great harvest of faith on this vast and vital continent'', at the Papal High Mass on Sunday, has become a matter of debate; particularly in view of the concerns expressed by some saffron outfits vis-a-vis conversions." ___________________________ adiyen does not fully understand what the above statements mean, especially what is meant by "harvest of faith" that is hoped to be reaped in the continent. Perhaps somebody can explain. adiyen is learning that lots of religious leaders in India are very upset and are afraid of "conversions" and want to prevent it. adiyen is wondering,"What is there to be afraid of "conversions"? After all we also did "conversion" in history, didn't we? Sri.RamanujAchArya converted lot of people in 10-11th century by giving "samAshrayanam" and "pancha-samskAram" to lot of people like tribals, outcastes and under-privileged people. The Christians are only trying to do the same thing in India now. So what is wrong in it? If our religious organizations want to do it, let them, like what Emberumanar did 1000 years ago, also do "conversions". Who is stopping them?Why are they all talking as if Christians are special kind of invaders? If our religious leaders also want to "evangelise" outside India let them also go out to other countries like the Pope. Who is stopping them? Some of them are already doing it in America and Gulf countries like ISKON etc.. Why are they making such big fuss about Pope's visit and "conversion"? adiyEn can't really understand. 1000 years ago RamanujachArya was successful in "converting" millions to SriVaishnavism. Today we do not have such a great one as Ramanuja to do that. The Christians are doing better than our religious leaders, evidently. But rather than crying foul at the Christians, shouldn't we really fault our own religious heads, leaders and organisations for not being able to meet global challenge of other religions? This shows that present day religious leaders are not able to meet challenge in same successful way that our dearest Ramanuja or Sankara AchArya challenged and overcame Buddhism or Islam. Sir, adiyen is feeling that, in the ultimate analysis, the human soul too is a jungle and it is only the fittest religious ideology that will survive in it. Sir, adiyen is wanting to know what are you all thinking about this matter? dAsan, Sampathkumaran ===== Bid and sell for free at http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 For a discussion on conversions and shastrartha between Hindus and Christians, visit http://www.hindunet.org/forum In particular, go the the 'General Questions' category and read the posts under the following threads 1. I am the Way concept 2. Saved from the savior Regards Vishal ________________ In a message dated 11/9/99 10:37:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, sampathkumar_2000 writes: << adiyen is learning that lots of religious leaders in India are very upset and are afraid of "conversions" and want to prevent it. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Dear Sampath I appreciate your boldness for bringing this topic to the Bhakti forum. Your questions are extremely relevant and I hope they are viewed in the right spirit by the learned members of the Bhakti group. Personally I don't think conversion really helps. We must learn from each other and grow up to be better Hindus or better Christians or better Buddhists. Everything is a part of EmperumAn's leela Vibhuti and we must play our part to the best extent possible. Your well spirited writing on cleaniness in temples can derive lot of inspiration from Christian Missionaries. Please continue to enlighten us with your writings. Dasan Vijayaraghavan Buffalo, NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Dear Sir, The conversion that happened 1000 years back is not the same as those that are taking place now. First of all, Ramanuja, Shankara and Madhva coined their philosophy based on Vedas and they all come under Sanathaana dharma. They all give 100% importance to Vedas. The conversions from Buddhism/Janism to Vedantic view did create some violent cases in some areas, but in general, their religious centers were not destroyed (or at least there is no record that I am aware of). On the other hand the conversion to Islam was a forced one, as many know by now. In fact, I am told the word Hindu Kush is related to massacre of Hindus on the mountains of present day Afghanistan (I may be wrong here). Many of the Buddhist shrines and libraries were destroyed and torched by Muslim invaders. The conversion to Sri Vaishnavam 1000 years back, was based on the individual, no handouts were given and number of conversions were not kept track. Present day conversions are more to do with what the Vatican or the Mosque gives in return for the conversion. In fact, it has become a tool to blackmail the government in some parts of the country (in particular south tamil nadu), In many cases it is not a true conversion. In one respect, your view is correct, in that we need not be too scared of the so called conversions. But not for the reasons you have mentioned. Let us take some recent conversions to Evangelical Christianity (EC) (based in US), The publicity is that Millions in India are getting converted each day (or at least during each visit by a pastor). You can see the ads on 700 Club program hosted by Pat Robertson, These are for local consumption (meaning $ contribution from local residents in US). How do we know that each one who gets converted to EC stays true to it. I can expect about 10% or less to be true conversions, others are there mainly for handouts. If the same crowd is told that Lord Ganesha is taking milk from a spoon, they will immediately folk to see the so called miracle. Present day conversions have to do more with the number game among various groups of Muslims and Christians. For example, today's San Jose Mercury Newspaper had an article about the Southern Baptist church's book let on "prayer" to convert Hindus, Muslims and Jews (one on Buddhism is to be published soon). They were handed out during important festival days for each of the three religions. Here we have Protestants and Catholics competing to convert Hindus and others, so it is clearly a number game, and the amount of donations that goes into this organization depends on the number of conversions to a large part. The problem with our religious heads is, they are not flush with funds (or at least most of them). Even if they are flush with funds, they cannot compete against the $$ amounts flowing from the west. In any case the bottom line is these conversions are making people more lazy and more bonded (to the church) because of the handouts. The handouts in may cases are not just food money or clothing, they include free education, free health care (or subsidized). These handouts are attractive and will continue as long as the economy in US and west is doing well and more $$ go into the Vatican bank accounts. The problem is handouts do not help better the lives of the recipients (in the short run it may), in the long run it will only ruin the society's ability to be a productive force. - -- Venkatesh K. Elayavalli Cypress Semiconductor Data Communications Division 3901 N. First St. MS 4 Phone: (408) 456 1858 San Jose CA 95134 Fax: (408) 943 2949 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 Dear Bhagavatas, The Conversion Issue : Conversions initiated by Vedantins were voluntary. Further, the target group consisted of well-read individuals. These individuals converted either because they were convinced by the valid arguments presented by the vedantins or because they were vanquished in debates. The conversions being initiated by Christian missionaries today can in no way be compared to those initiated by Vedantins. These conversions are not voluntary; rewards are used as bait. Secondly, the Christian missionaries are targeting the poor and uneducated. ramanuja dasan, Venkat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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