"harvest of faith"

[Guest guest]

Dear members,

Since this subject is sensitive and "bold" and in

order to avoid needless inflammatory debate adiyen is

suggesting that those who want to discuss it with me

please do so through private mail only.

 

adiyen will wind up this topic with only following

small remarks:

 

(1) Ramanuja and SankarAchArya faced I think bigger

onslaughts from alien religions and philosophy in

their times than present day. In their times also

people faced blandishments and threats of

"conversion". But the achAryas did not whine or

flinch. They did not fight "war of faiths" at

political plane but only at spiritual plane unlike

present day.

 

(2) If we are saying that poor and backward Indian

masses are being tempted to "convert" by being seduced

by money-power, are we not insulting our brethren by

belittling their dignity? Are our poor masses such

fools that they will sell their souls for money?

Sorry, I don't agree. I think we should give our

millions of underprivileged countrymen much more

intelligence and integrity than we are giving them now

in this matter.

(The whole world acknowledges that in the political

field India's poor masses understand democracy and its

working and philosophy in a way that is equal to

mature and advanced democracies anywhere in the world.

Can the masses who are politically so sophisticated

not understand the politics of religion too?)

 

(3)Next question to ask is, "Why have we come to such

a sad pass today that those who are part of our

religion today succumb to money and change faith? Why

has our religion lost its hold on them and their

faith? How come our religion lets its spiritual power

over men's minds and heart be overcome by sheer money

power? Why?" (This question is same as "Why are our

young educated and professional Indians ready to leave

everything in their own country, and do everything

including change passports and citizenship,to go and

settle down in UK,US, AUstralia etc.or become NRIs?")

 

(4) The great Sankara and Ramanuja were not not at all

afraid of alien religions and ideology. They were real

leaders who did not need political crutches to stand

up and stride like the giants they were. Their

respective "siddhAtams" was firmly established in the

hearts of the faithful by the dint of its own weight

and philosophical/spiritual/ethical superiority.

 

Why are we not able to do so today? Why are we all so

afraid? Do we have much to be afraid of? Isn't it

better to be self-critical rather than apprehensive?

 

dAsan,

Sampathkumaran

 

 

=====

 

 

 

Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

 

I appreciate the spiritual view point taken by Sri Sampath here. We should

not be exclusive or fanatical. At the same time, I am opposed to

conversions to Christianity for the follwoing reasons :

 

1. There is no Christian toaday including the Pope. Bible very clearly

states "Thou shall not Kill". But the Christians under the guidance of the

then Pope waged crusade and even today they are killing countless animals.

You cannot violate the ten commandments and say that you are a Christian.

(The Arch Bishop says that Pope is not talking about conversions which is

so obvious. What about "Thou shall not lie") The last Christian died on the

cross.

 

2. In the name of social service, the Christian institutions make huge sums

of money out of our resources. The foreign help is only from the point of

view of investment which attracts tax benefits in those countries and helps

in money laundaring. Then institutions run on our direct money and tax

money. Hindu organizations dont get Government aid because the Governments

dont have the backbone to support our heritage.

 

3. They are making religion cheap. If Pope is violating "Thou shall not

kill" and Arch bishop is telling blatant lies, what kind of spiritual

training do you expect from their followers.

 

4. They say that they are bringing equality in society. Their idea is to

make brahmanas (not caste brahmanas but sattvic people) into mlecchas.

Ramanujacharya made not mlecchas into not just brahmanas but vaishnavas.

In the modern days, Prabhupada has made yavanas and mlecchas into

vaishnavas all over the world. Ours is the most egalitarian society.

 

5. They are exploing economic inequalities to spread religion. This is not

economically profitable in the long run and is not religion anymore.

 

6. In The Hindu, a backboneless newspaper in my opinion, one David makes a

point that Churches have made people of Kerala and North Easter countries

literate. They are spreading education. Those who are not fools know how

much the Church has tried to crush scientific temper of people like

Galileo. Do you think we can rely on them to build our educational

infrastructure ? They will only invest in education to the extent that they

can make faith harvest.

 

7. If you talk to born again Christians , you will see how much they decry

sanatana dharma and Krishna. Or go to Ashtalakshmi temple and you will see

cows slaughtered. It is our right to protect our religion.

 

Yes, we have to preach more. But at the same time we should also counter

preach. ISKCON's success is because it boldly counters popular paradigms

through scientific means - technology, reason and logic.

 

Regards

Rajaram V.

 

 

sampath kumar [sMTP:sampathkumar_2000]

Tuesday, November 09, 1999 1:42 PM

bhakti

"harvest of faith"

 

Dear members,

 

Although this subject adiyen is now posting on is not

directly connected to SriVaishnavism still it has some

indirect relation. So adiyen is making the following

inquiry to all of you just to get your general and

valuable opinions:

 

This morning adiyen read the following headlines from

the "HIndu":

 

"With his very first public statement - an entry in

the Visitor's Book kept at Rajghat - on Saturday

morning, Pope John Paul II set the tone for what he

was to say during his short visit to India which

concluded this morning.

 

In the Visitor's Book, the 79-year-old pontiff had

penned down a line from Mahatma Gandhi:``A culture

cannot survive if it attempts to be exclusive.'' What

he went on to say in the three speeches he was to make

subsequently was primarily an elaboration of this

thought on the religious front.

 

While the Pope has primarily reiterated the

established position of the Church in all his

speeches, his statement, ``May the Third Christian

Millennium witness a great harvest of faith on this

vast and vital continent'', at the Papal High Mass on

Sunday, has become a matter of debate; particularly in

view of the concerns expressed by some saffron outfits

vis-a-vis

conversions."

___________________________

 

adiyen does not fully understand what the above

statements mean, especially what is meant by "harvest

of faith" that is hoped to be reaped in the continent.

Perhaps somebody can explain.

 

adiyen is learning that lots of religious leaders in

India are very upset and are afraid of "conversions"

and want to prevent it.

 

adiyen is wondering,"What is there to be afraid of

"conversions"? After all we also did "conversion" in

history, didn't we? Sri.RamanujAchArya converted lot

of people in 10-11th century by giving "samAshrayanam"

and "pancha-samskAram" to lot of people like tribals,

outcastes and under-privileged people. The Christians

are only trying to do the same thing in India now. So

what is wrong in it? If our religious organizations

want to do it, let them, like what Emberumanar did

1000 years ago, also do "conversions". Who is stopping

them?Why are they all talking as if Christians are

special kind of invaders? If our religious leaders

also want to "evangelise" outside India let them also

go out to other countries like the Pope. Who is

stopping them? Some of them are already doing it in

America and Gulf countries like ISKON etc.. Why are

they making such big fuss about Pope's visit and

"conversion"? adiyEn can't really understand.

 

1000 years ago RamanujachArya was successful in

"converting" millions to SriVaishnavism. Today we do

not have such a great one as Ramanuja to do that. The

Christians are doing better than our religious

leaders, evidently. But rather than crying foul at the

Christians, shouldn't we really fault our own

religious heads, leaders and organisations for not

being able to meet global challenge of other

religions? This shows that present day religious

leaders are not able to meet challenge in same

successful way that our dearest Ramanuja or Sankara

AchArya challenged and overcame Buddhism or Islam.

 

Sir, adiyen is feeling that, in the ultimate analysis,

the human soul too is a jungle and it is only the

fittest religious ideology that will survive in it.

 

Sir, adiyen is wanting to know what are you all

thinking about this matter?

 

dAsan,

Sampathkumaran

 

 

 

 

 

=====

 

 

 

Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.